Bob8 Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 2 minutes ago, kzb said: Yes I know, but that is a slightly different topic. On the current situation, it's a puzzle to me why there is a shortage of this drug. They could absolutely clean up by making more of it. Probably about half the western population needs to be on it. Think of the constant stream of revenue from that. But after 16 years I think the patent expires. So you would think they would be making hay while the sun shines. Each site has to be built to produce the drugs and then fill it and package it, all according to strict regulations. They are building sites in Ireland (packaging), Brazil, China, France, North Carolina and expanding in Denmark. The cost of these carefully controlled environments, building and checking the process equipment and staff employment and training is massive. The production is done in an old fashioned batch process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HovelinHove Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 29 minutes ago, DarkHorseWaits-NoMore said: State funded development to benefit society. Financialised healthcare is an oxymoron. Because that worked well in countries that tried that. Why should the latest healthcare be a right? Grow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HovelinHove Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 12 minutes ago, kzb said: Yes I know, but that is a slightly different topic. On the current situation, it's a puzzle to me why there is a shortage of this drug. They could absolutely clean up by making more of it. Probably about half the western population needs to be on it. Think of the constant stream of revenue from that. But after 16 years I think the patent expires. So you would think they would be making hay while the sun shines. It’s not like making widgets. It’s a highly regulated process. The pens themselves are quite clever devices. Private demand is massive. You have both Wegovy (the weight loss version) and Ozempic (the diabetes version). Lilly will be bringing a better drug to the market in the next year, and others will follow. The price will come down due to competition. Having worked in pharma, many people who go into research, like I did, are genuinely motivated to help others. However, if there were not big profits available then investors would not risk the huge sums they do. I have been involved with two biotechs that hoovered up nearly a billion each in investor money, but crashed and burned at phase III. People who say the state should fund it, or companies should not be motivated by profit really are thick as mince. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomo Posted March 31 Author Share Posted March 31 Chinese pharmaceutical companies are developing domestic versions of “miracle” weight-loss drugs as they take on western drugmakers selling anti-obesity medication in one of the world’s biggest markets. Chinese drug companies hope to compete with the Danish pharma group Novo Nordisk’s pioneering drugs in China, which has the world’s largest overweight and diabetic population. If successful, they could also potentially offer a cheaper alternative in the west. The new generation of weight-loss drugs form part of a category called glucagon-like peptide-1 agonists or GLP-1s. Novo Nordisk’s semaglutide or Ozempic dominates the market, but dozens using the same mechanism are undergoing clinical trials in China, analysts said. “There will be an explosion in supply at the latest by 2026,” said Beijing-based UBS pharmaceutical analyst Chen Chen. Novo Nordisk’s Wegovy, a version of Ozempic marketed for weight loss, is in short supply globally after it was found to produce a 15 per cent average reduction in patients’ body weight. The market for diabetes and new weight-loss drugs is forecast by analysts to reach $130bn-$140bn in sales worldwide. Chinese health officials have said tackling diabetes and obesity is a top policy priority as the country’s ageing population takes a toll on the hospital and social care systems. Some 89mn people are living with diabetes in China, just over 8 per cent of the population, a figure that The Lancet forecasts will reach 108mn by the end of the decade, or 10 per cent of the population. While many multinationals are trying to diversify sales away from China, western pharmaceutical groups including Moderna and AstraZeneca are digging in, striking investment deals and joint ventures with local companies to capitalise on the huge potential presented by the ageing population. Novo Nordisk currently dominates the $500mn Chinese market for GLP-1 drugs, accounting for 57 per cent of sales, according to analytics group Clarivate. So far Chinese regulators have only approved Novo Nordisk’s drug for diabetes, but users can get it from doctors for weight loss or purchase it on the black market. The same compounds are used to treat diabetes and obesity. Last month Beijing gave the first approval for GLP-1 weight loss drugs, made by Chinese companies Huadong Medicine and Shanghai Benemae Pharmaceutical. Analysts predict Novo Nordisk will soon gain approval in China for its weight-loss drug Wegovy, which only requires an injection once a week, compared with the daily dose for Huadong’s and three doses for Benemae’s medicine. Helen Chen, greater China managing partner at LEK Consulting in Shanghai, said as many as 70 drugs were being trialled but domestic rivals would not “make much of a dent” until they were included on a government procurement list. https://www.ft.com/content/9559b587-4de3-4b68-a311-7bfc77870855 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomo Posted March 31 Author Share Posted March 31 COPENHAGEN, March 7 (Reuters) - Novo Nordisk (NOVOb.CO), opens new tab said on Thursday it expects Wegovy to be approved for sale in China this year and plans to soon launch the popular weight-loss drug in the largest Asian market with capped volumes. The upcoming launch in China will initially focus on patients paying out-of-pocket for Wegovy, the head of Novo's business in China, Christine Zhou Xiaping, told an investor meeting at the company's headquarters outside Copenhagen. Wegovy had its debut in Japan, its first Asian market, in February. The Danish drugmaker has launched the drug in eight countries since its debut in the United States in 2021. The company is racing to increase supplies of the blockbuster drug to meet soaring demand but has had to cap volumes in most markets. Eli Lilly (LLY.N), opens new tab, which makes rival weight loss drugs, has said it expects demand to outpace supply in 2024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.steve Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 (edited) 20 hours ago, shlomo said: The Danish drugmaker has launched the drug in eight countries since its debut in the United States in 2021. I can imagine this being highly psychologically addictive. I can imagine a thriving black-market and big profits to be made by making this available to those who want it most. I can also imagine side effects emerging 5-10 years into the future... where the miracle of 'slim' isn't delivered for a fiver without side effects. Edited April 1 by A.steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomo Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 1 hour ago, A.steve said: I can also imagine side effects emerging 5-10 years into the future... where the miracle of 'slim' isn't delivered for a fiver without side effects. Yes, it does have side effects but people would rather look good than consider the health implications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 It has side effects. They are already being reported. They are listed. If you are able to get yourself to eat healthily and exercise, do that. But if you cannot or not enough, this is useful. There are major difficulties with being on the drug and with getting off it, but they are not as bad as obesity in terms of health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.steve Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 1 hour ago, shlomo said: Yes, it does have side effects but people would rather look good than consider the health implications Yes, I expect people will be motivated in future pretty-much as they were in the past. Where looking good (for a sizeable proportion of the population) will be believed to correspond to opportunities in life. I expect the idea that a solution comes in injectable form will be completely irresistible. It creates a very interesting intersection with capitalist principles. I estimate that some people will become very rich from this - I'm just not sure who will accrue the profits... especially not if it can be synthesised cheaply by any chemist who doesn't want to heed patents etc. I can imagine it being much more popular than hard drugs like amphetamines and opiates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 On 30/03/2024 at 18:28, shlomo said: https://fortune.com/europe/2024/03/28/ozempic-maker-novo-nordisk-facing-pressure-as-study-finds-1000-appetite-suppressant-can-be-made-for-just-5/ Ozempic could be profitably produced for less than $5 a month even as maker Novo Nordisk A/S charges almost $1,000 in the US, according to a study that revives questions about prices for top-selling treatments for diabetes and obesity. The blockbuster drug could be manufactured for 89 cents to $4.73 for a month’s supply, figures that include a profit margin, researchers at Yale University, King’s College Hospital in London and the nonprofit Doctors Without Borders reported in the journal JAMA Network Open. That compares to the monthly US list price of $968.52 for Ozempic, a weekly injection. Novo declined to provide production costs for Ozempic and Wegovy, its related drug for obesity. The company said it’s making significant investments to ensure that the public has access to its widely popular drugs. It’s making about $6 billion in capital expenditures and spending $11 billion to acquire production facilities from Catalent Inc. as part of those efforts, according to an emailed response to questions. “This outrageously high price has the potential to bankrupt Medicare, the American people and our entire health care system,” Senator Bernie Sanders, who has held hearings about high US drug prices, said in a statement after the findings came out. The Vermont independent called on Novo Nordisk to lower the list price of Ozempic to $155 a month or less, in line with what it charges in other countries. The study extends research showing how steep US markups are for GLP-1 drugs like Ozempic and Wegovy and underlines longstanding criticism of prices for diabetes therapies, especially insulin. On a per-month basis, Ozempic generally can be produced for less than various forms of insulin, a lifesaving diabetes drug that’s been available for decades, the study found. “The profit margin is immense,” on drugs like Ozempic, said Melissa Barber, a public health economist at Yale and the study’s corresponding author. “There should be a conversation in policy about what is a fair price.” Novo’s combined 2023 sales of Ozempic and Wegovy topped $18 billion. Patents linked to the drugs are likely to expire in June 2033, according to estimates from Bloomberg Law. Novo shares fell 0.8% in Copenhagen, and have gained 26% this year. Transparency Goal Drug production costs are often shrouded in secrecy with little clarity on how they relate to prices, if at all. Barber and her colleagues used updated estimates for raw ingredient costs and focused on the costs of producing diabetes drugs, including GLP-1 drugs like Ozempic, along with other diabetes pills and insulins. “The goal of this research is to have receipts, to be as transparent as possible,” Barber said. Novo and other drugmakers slashed US prices for some forms of insulin by as much as 75% last year under pressure from the Biden administration. By some estimates, however, the reductions made those products more profitable because they eliminated rebates paid to pharmacy benefit managers, the middlemen who negotiate prices for payers and employers. Novo said in an email that 75% of its gross earnings goes to rebates and discounts to ensure patients have access to products like semaglutide, the active ingredient in Wegovy and Ozempic. Drugmakers often cite the high costs of research that may last years as a reason for their prices. Spending on drug research and development was almost $5 billion last year and will rise this year, Novo said. Still, debate over the cost of drugs like Ozempic and Wegovy is ramping up. State health plans and Medicaid offices are seeing growing bills for Ozempic and its sister drug Wegovy, raising questions about whether the increases in cost are sustainable. In January, North Carolina cut off coverage of anti-obesity medicines for state employees, citing soaring costs and lack of agreement on pricing from drugmakers. Surprisingly, the study found that the biggest cost in producing Ozempic is not the active medicine, called semaglutide, but the disposable pens used to inject it. They can be made for no more than $2.83 per month’s supply, the authors concluded, based on interviews with former employees and consultants to injection device manufacturers. One Ozempic pen is used weekly and lasts a month. Other Costs By contrast, the active drug in Ozempic can be produced for about 29 cents for a month’s supply, or 7.2 cents for a typical weekly dose, the research found. It’s not cheap to make — semaglutide costs over $70,000 per kilogram. But only a tiny quantity of the drug is used in each weekly dose. Other costs include those of filling each pen, estimated at 20 cents per monthly dose, and other chemical ingredients, which the study estimates at 15 cents per monthly dose. The analysis doesn’t include estimates for the cost of making Wegovy. Separate research from the University of Liverpool and elsewhere found last year that Wegovy could be produced for a mere $40 a month. Why doesn't MSF insist healthcare staff take a vow of poverty? https://msf.org.uk/who-we-are?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwtqmwBhBVEiwAL-WAYYLCDLu4MnW0UHbMFtztUFwYDwzZNPLnkMeI4-3cQp8b_Sy_0aMpJxoCI28QAvD_BwE Despite the spin n BS on pharma, 70%+ of healthcare costs is Labour. 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spyguy Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Any why are they listing France and Italy as countries where tgey operate?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/high-markups-glp-1s-insulin-pens-present-barriers-access-lower-income-countries-report Soooo.. they are campaigning against the high cost of obesity drugs in low income countries..... Jesus. What a bunch iof cretinous Marxist loons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomo Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 33 minutes ago, A.steve said: Yes, I expect people will be motivated in future pretty-much as they were in the past. Where looking good (for a sizeable proportion of the population) will be believed to correspond to opportunities in life. I expect the idea that a solution comes in injectable form will be completely irresistible. It creates a very interesting intersection with capitalist principles. I estimate that some people will become very rich from this - I'm just not sure who will accrue the profits... especially not if it can be synthesised cheaply by any chemist who doesn't want to heed patents etc. I can imagine it being much more popular than hard drugs like amphetamines and opiates. GLP-1 medications work, in part, by slowing down how quickly food passes through the stomach, leading people to feel fuller longer. But they can also lead to gastrointestinal side effects, including abdominal pain, nausea and vomiting, as shown in clinical trials and noted on drug labels. More recently, as the drugs have skyrocketed in popularity, there have been reports of patients who developed stomach paralysis, or gastroparesis. In August, Novo Nordisk was sued over claims that Ozempic caused a woman's stomach paralysis. (Eli Lilly, which makes another GLP-1 drug, tirzepatide, was also included in the lawsuit.) The new research, based on health insurance claims from 2006 to 2020 from more than 5,000 patients in the U.S., looked at how many people developed one of four serious gastrointestinal problems — biliary disease, gastroparesis, pancreatitis or bowel obstructions — after they were prescribed one of the weight loss drugs. About 4,100 of the patients were prescribed liraglutide, about 600 semaglutide and 650 the weight loss drug bupropion-naltrexone, which is not a GLP-1 medication. Wegovy was not approved until 2021. However, Ozempic, which has the same active ingredient semaglutide, was approved in 2017 and some doctors prescribe it off-label for weight loss. People included in the analysis all had records of obesity and did not have diabetes, which itself can cause gastroparesis. Compared to people taking bupropion-naltrexone, people taking a GLP-1 drug had a higher risk of pancreatitis, bowel obstruction and gastroparesis, the study found. There was no increase in risk for biliary disease, which includes conditions that affect the gallbladder, the liver and the bile ducts, as its incidence was similar for both types of drugs. Pancreatitis, or inflammation of the pancreatitis, occurred at a rate of about 5 cases per 1,000 users of semaglutide and 8 cases per 1,000 users of liraglutide. The condition causes severe abdominal pain and, in some cases, requires hospitalization and surgery. Gastroparesis was seen at a rate of about 10 cases per 1,000 semaglutide users and 7 cases per 1,000 liraglutide users. The condition, which can be difficult to treat, causes severe nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain. It can have “a significant impact on the quality of life,” Sodhi said. Bowel obstructions — which occur when a blockage prevents food or liquid from moving through the intestines — were seen at a rate of 8 cases per 1,000 users of liraglutide. There were no observed cases in semaglutide users. Depending on the severity, surgery may be needed to treat a bowel obstruction. Sodhi said that although the conditions are rare, the medications’ widespread popularity means that if 1 million people are prescribed those drugs, tens or even hundreds of thousands of people could experience them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomo Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 16 minutes ago, spyguy said: https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/high-markups-glp-1s-insulin-pens-present-barriers-access-lower-income-countries-report Soooo.. they are campaigning against the high cost of obesity drugs in low income countries..... Jesus. What a bunch iof cretinous Marxist loons. MSF says GLP-1 drugs for diabetes cost $95 per month in Brazil, $115 monthly in South Africa, $230 in Latvia and $353 in the U.S. But if the branded companies were to partner with generics makers to boost access, the prices could be less than $1 per month, according to the study. GLP-1s are expected to be this year’s best-selling drug class, taking the top spot from PD-1 inhibitors, analytics firm GlobalData has projected. Annual sales are forecast to pass $100 billion by 2029. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.steve Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 16 minutes ago, shlomo said: Sodhi said that although the conditions are rare, the medications’ widespread popularity means that if 1 million people are prescribed those drugs, tens or even hundreds of thousands of people could experience them That estimate, no doubt, assumes the drugs are those from a competent (official) manufacturing process... and that the dose is not abused by people desperate for faster results - with off-the-books supply from an underground dealer. What proportion of the public would accept risks of 'rare' side effects? Are we talking numbers comparable to those who'd try cannabis or MDMA... or opiates or amphetamines or tobacco? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 2 hours ago, shlomo said: MSF says GLP-1 drugs for diabetes cost $95 per month in Brazil, $115 monthly in South Africa, $230 in Latvia and $353 in the U.S. But if the branded companies were to partner with generics makers to boost access, the prices could be less than $1 per month, according to the study. GLP-1s are expected to be this year’s best-selling drug class, taking the top spot from PD-1 inhibitors, analytics firm GlobalData has projected. Annual sales are forecast to pass $100 billion by 2029. If Drs n Nurses worked for pennies then there be even bigger savings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomo Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 10 minutes ago, spyguy said: If Drs n Nurses worked for pennies then there be even bigger savings. I have looked at the wages of Drs and Nurses in the UK and think nurses need to be paid more, and consultations in primary care need to be moved onto zoom/teams as the treatments have already been decided by fotmulary position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHPCinTheUK Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 This drug will prove to be very useful when there won’t be enough food available for all of us. This is the product of our lazy society. What was the calories intake in the 20s and 30s? Is it possible to live an healthy life eating less meat, more veg and less food in general. I knew someone who would only eat a slice of bread and some cheese as breakfast, a sandwich around midday and some veg soup for dinner. He was 98 when he passed away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomo Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 5 minutes ago, NoHPCinTheUK said: This drug will prove to be very useful when there won’t be enough food available for all of us. This is the product of our lazy society. What was the calories intake in the 20s and 30s? Is it possible to live an healthy life eating less meat, more veg and less food in general. I knew someone who would only eat a slice of bread and some cheese as breakfast, a sandwich around midday and some veg soup for dinner. He was 98 when he passed away. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/01/obesity-now-greater-risk-global-health-hunger-lancet-study/ Obesity is now a greater threat to global health than hunger, a new Lancet study has found. More than one in eight people in the world are clinically obese, as the number passed one billion for the first time. It is now the leading form of malnutrition, with the number of people considered underweight falling to below 550 million. Being obese or underweight are forms of malnutrition because in both cases people are not getting the right nutrients, vitamins and types of calories needed to be healthy. Experts warned that children were paying the price for inaction on obesity by global leaders, with under-18s accounting for 159 million of those who are obese A further 879 million adults were considered obese, bringing the total to 1.04 billion out of the world’s eight billion people in 2022, according to the largest study of its kind. NHS leaders called the study’s findings “alarming” and said obesity rates were “a ticking health timebomb”. The analysis by a global team of experts, led by Imperial College London and World Health Organisation (WHO), revealed that the proportion of women who are obese has doubled since 1990 to almost one in five, and tripled among men to around one in seven. In the UK, which ranked 78th out of 200 countries analysed for adult obesity levels, almost three in 10 adults were obese, with women slightly more likely to be overweight than men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHPCinTheUK Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 People are obese because they eat too much shit. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 On 31/03/2024 at 06:23, Stewy said: How about just don't eat like a hippo? Lift weights thrice per week, heavy for an hour, 1500 cals per day for women or 2200 cals for blokes, easy. Popping pills is no cure. It's even simpler than that. Stop eating seed oils. You can then eat however much you like, because your body then starts to correctly regulate your hunger, basal metabolic rate and daily activity. Anyway, I would strongly advise people not to take these horrible drugs. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Profitability? Well they made it, so they can charge whatever they like for it. The problem is that the government enforces the made up idea of patents which hands the business a monopoly. Abolish patents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 10 hours ago, NoHPCinTheUK said: What was the calories intake in the 20s and 30s? Pretty similar to now. Many people ate far more. They ate mostly bread and saturated fats from meat and dairy. What they didn't eat was seed oils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 On 01/04/2024 at 23:14, NoHPCinTheUK said: People are obese because they eat too much shit. Period. Yes. We have evolved on the whole to react that way to the environment that we have created. Somehow, meddling with that environment to make it less worse upsets people.. On 02/04/2024 at 09:50, Locke said: It's even simpler than that. Stop eating seed oils. You can then eat however much you like, because your body then starts to correctly regulate your hunger, basal metabolic rate and daily activity. Anyway, I would strongly advise people not to take these horrible drugs. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Profitability? Well they made it, so they can charge whatever they like for it. The problem is that the government enforces the made up idea of patents which hands the business a monopoly. Abolish patents. Seed oils Really? We have plenty pf people who know nothing and think they know something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewy Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 7 hours ago, Bob8 said: Seed oils Really? We have plenty pf people who know nothing and think they know something Yes, it has turned very Dunning Kruger on here. Seed oils? We just have too much food, cheap food, always available - and now delivered to their door any time of the day... Add it to the huge amount of varied entertainment on TV, and labour-saving devices, and everyone having cars... But no.. it's seed oils 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual-observer Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 34 minutes ago, Stewy said: Yes, it has turned very Dunning Kruger on here. Seed oils? We just have too much food, cheap food, always available - and now delivered to their door any time of the day... Add it to the huge amount of varied entertainment on TV, and labour-saving devices, and everyone having cars... But no.. it's seed oils 😆 It’s a crass point to allude to modern day norms enabling unhealthy habits yet discount ultra processed foods and their contents as a contributing factor I.e food that nature wouldn’t produce organically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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