UK earnings growth accelerates

[No One]

20 hours ago, NoGo said:

I believe it has something to with immigration, especially from the EU. There was a time when the UK was a better option for many. I meant to say earlier in regard to this

No there may not be a rush of people coming any more, but we are pretty saturated now, certainly in terms of skilled employment. Over the last 10 years, everywhere I have worked has been at least even with non uk people. I like the guys I work with, Im not running anybody down, but they were cheap when they came here looking for work. BUT, they are now on the UK treadmill, and many are settled, many are home owners, many been here years, if not decades, so now these people cant afford to be cheap either. It might push wages up, or it might just encourage the next entourage of needed workers, who are not from the EU. 

Following the other discussion about synthetic employed, this is the only way a UK worker (where ever he comes from) can earn decent money now days.

And of the colleagues who have left to 'go back home' it has nothing to do with Brexit. Its more a case of the hiring companies have set up in Poland, Hungry etc. Now they can return, skilled, wealthy, and stepping of the ship thats floundering, and taking on water rapidly.

Woohoo.

Sorry, not wanting to patronise anyone from another country who works here, I cant read your mind. Just my experience and knowledge gathered from talking from colleagues.

here is the chart I promised, this one is a US chart, but the UK one looks much the same

 

[mrtickle]

On 18/10/2018 at 11:28, No One said:

What a *****, anything but paying wages for engineers, like ford did.

Hang on, the earlier post said RICHARD Dyson; he's the journalist who used to publish articles against Section 24.

Not JAMES Dyson, the inventor?

Why conflate the two different people?

 

As to why put a face on Henry vacuum cleaners - people like them. Surely you saw their nativity scene last year?

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

20 hours ago, No One said:

here is the chart I promised, this one is a US chart, but the UK one looks much the same

 

So in summary everyone is due a 140% wage rise!!!!!

Seriously, ask the boss for 45% this year, then another 45% after that and then another 45% after that. If they refuse, just leave!!!

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

On 18/10/2018 at 11:54, No One said:

Hmmm, IDK.

What are Dysons wages/rates and what are prices like in Bath and surrounding areas?

Dyson workers are badly underpaid.

They need to ask for a 140% wage rise!!!

[No One]

8 hours ago, mrtickle said:

Hang on, the earlier post said RICHARD Dyson; he's the journalist who used to publish articles against Section 24.

Not JAMES Dyson, the inventor?

Why conflate the two different people?

 

As to why put a face on Henry vacuum cleaners - people like them. Surely you saw their nativity scene last year?

...

hahahahahahaahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahha

 

I miss read

[nightowl]

21 hours ago, No One said:

here is the chart I promised, this one is a US chart, but the UK one looks much the same

 

I have seen similar graphs but the relationship breaks apart mid 1970s.

It seems a lot of issues blamed on the 1980s actually predate it.

[Bluestone59]

2 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

So in summary everyone is due a 140% wage rise!!!!!

Seriously, ask the boss for 45% this year, then another 45% after that and then another 45% after that. If they refuse, just leave!!!

A friend of mine worked for one of the parcel companies. He knew where everywhere was in Britain and was an insanely hard worker to boot. His colleagues were mostly immigrants, some were not that good at English.

As he was doing the work of at least three people he asked for his pay to be trebled.

This was declined but a couple of weeks later they asked him back and did a deal, can't recall the exact amount, think it was about 50% rise.

As he wasn't working he went back but left again a few weeks later. Off topic, a retired copper told me there were many illegals working in the area and that Borders have never been interested as Gatwick would fall apart if they were tackled, so he said.

[rantnrave]

Lots of vacancies for skilled workers going unfilled where I am after rounds and rounds of recruitment. Several due to people retiring. Lots of talented staff further down the food chain who have potential to do that work. The interest of senior management to pay to train these individuals? Absolutely zilch.

[longgone]

11 hours ago, Bluestone59 said:

A friend of mine worked for one of the parcel companies. He knew where everywhere was in Britain and was an insanely hard worker to boot. His colleagues were mostly immigrants, some were not that good at English.

As he was doing the work of at least three people he asked for his pay to be trebled.

This was declined but a couple of weeks later they asked him back and did a deal, can't recall the exact amount, think it was about 50% rise.

As he wasn't working he went back but left again a few weeks later. Off topic, a retired copper told me there were many illegals working in the area and that Borders have never been interested as Gatwick would fall apart if they were tackled, so he said.

when i was doing support work for IT outsources i could do the work of 3 support guys i could regularly do 15 calls a day.  i remember hearing the mangers talking about about me saying that when i send so and so he takes 1-2 hours to do one call and MR Gone is back in 10 mins. 

was i paid 3x times as much though ? was i hell.  There seems to be no point pushing yourself to any great degree anymore, just do some work when you have had enough move job and get a payrise then and keep doing it. 

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

21 hours ago, rantnrave said:

Lots of vacancies for skilled workers going unfilled where I am after rounds and rounds of recruitment. Several due to people retiring. Lots of talented staff further down the food chain who have potential to do that work. The interest of senior management to pay to train these individuals? Absolutely zilch.

This is a UK issue.

From the 1990s, firms had the choice of picking from a large pool of baby boomers, largely well educated due to good free schooling and university places. Rather than bother training people and running graduate training programmes they just started hiring the talent they needed albeit at a higher cost per employee, but with no need to run expensive training schemes. This group is now retiring en masse. 

My demographic came in as these schemes were being slashed back. Fortunately, I got an Engineering sponsorship during my degree, though the scheme was killed to new entrants  a couple of years after my intake. By the time I graduated, offshoring was all the rage and so I switched from Electronics to IT ( a good move at the time).

Firms are now suffering in the UK due to a lack of numbers of skilled people in the prime 35-49 age band. This is a direct consequence of cuts 20-25 years ago, plus this also the baby buster group (250k less born per annum). Meanwhile, whilst there are a few more Millennials about, a lot of them seem to have been unfortunately retarded by the educational experiments of the Blair Government (tested IQs fell by 3 points per year for each year of Labour’s education reforms - peak stupid being those who did GCSEs around 2010-12 still under the old system).

The good  news is that the old UK specialisms are very much in demand again and so should build up. IoT is driving demand for electronics and radio planning, whilst I can also dust off some of the Bayesian Analysis and Machine Learning skills from 20 years ago - these are hot in the IT space now.

The fundamental issue I think the UK has is that we let idiots with degrees in PPE from Oxford run things that should be left to Engineers and Scientists.The Germans have Merkel, whilst we have the Maybot (an exercise in artificial stupidity if ever I saw one!)

 

 

 

[kzb]

20 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

tested IQs fell by 3 points per year for each year of Labour’s education reforms - peak stupid being those who did GCSEs around 2010-12 still under the old system).

The fundamental issue I think the UK has is that we let idiots with degrees in PPE from Oxford run things that should be left to Engineers and Scientists.The Germans have Merkel, whilst we have the Maybot (an exercise in artificial stupidity if ever I saw one!)

That's interesting, do you have a reference for the bit in bold?  I thought IQ scores had been increasing.

Agree with your last paragraph in general.  I seem to recall MP's were tested to see if they understood percentages a few years ago, and a lot evidently did not.  But I can't find the reference anymore, funny that.

[nightowl]

On 21/10/2018 at 18:13, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

This is a UK issue.

From the 1990s, firms had the choice of picking from a large pool of baby boomers, largely well educated due to good free schooling and university places. Rather than bother training people and running graduate training programmes they just started hiring the talent they needed albeit at a higher cost per employee, but with no need to run expensive training schemes. This group is now retiring en masse. 

My demographic came in as these schemes were being slashed back. Fortunately, I got an Engineering sponsorship during my degree, though the scheme was killed to new entrants  a couple of years after my intake. By the time I graduated, offshoring was all the rage and so I switched from Electronics to IT ( a good move at the time).

Firms are now suffering in the UK due to a lack of numbers of skilled people in the prime 35-49 age band. This is a direct consequence of cuts 20-25 years ago, plus this also the baby buster group (250k less born per annum). Meanwhile, whilst there are a few more Millennials about, a lot of them seem to have been unfortunately retarded by the educational experiments of the Blair Government (tested IQs fell by 3 points per year for each year of Labour’s education reforms - peak stupid being those who did GCSEs around 2010-12 still under the old system).

The good  news is that the old UK specialisms are very much in demand again and so should build up. IoT is driving demand for electronics and radio planning, whilst I can also dust off some of the Bayesian Analysis and Machine Learning skills from 20 years ago - these are hot in the IT space now.

The fundamental issue I think the UK has is that we let idiots with degrees in PPE from Oxford run things that should be left to Engineers and Scientists.The Germans have Merkel, whilst we have the Maybot (an exercise in artificial stupidity if ever I saw one!)

 

 

 

35-49 age band in electronics and IT...sound like me!  I suspect those same companies will lobby for fast track visas (beyond the EU so Brexit won't help) again to fill this imaginary skill gap.

Aside demographics any activity that's not directly related to the moneystream is low rank, so most design orientation engineers are considered an overhead cost so always seem very low down in the pecking order.....cue little violin symphony!  Also many of the retiring boomers from this industry hardly seem to recommend it.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

3 hours ago, nightowl said:

35-49 age band in electronics and IT...sound like me!  I suspect those same companies will lobby for fast track visas (beyond the EU so Brexit won't help) again to fill this imaginary skill gap.

Aside demographics any activity that's not directly related to the moneystream is low rank, so most design orientation engineers are considered an overhead cost so always seem very low down in the pecking order.....cue little violin symphony!  Also many of the retiring boomers from this industry hardly seem to recommend it.

I'm more in sales now to be honest, but need to understand the tech detail. I am a shameless money chaser!

I was also ask for the reference. Now i will confess to exaggerating for impact, and actually the real issue is the decline in those getting the highest ability levels....but i will stick to my guns that the average graduate is pretty thick.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289617302787

 

[simvastatin]

On 21/10/2018 at 17:13, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

This is a UK issue.

From the 1990s, firms had the choice of picking from a large pool of baby boomers, largely well educated due to good free schooling and university places. Rather than bother training people and running graduate training programmes they just started hiring the talent they needed albeit at a higher cost per employee, but with no need to run expensive training schemes. This group is now retiring en masse. 

My demographic came in as these schemes were being slashed back. Fortunately, I got an Engineering sponsorship during my degree, though the scheme was killed to new entrants  a couple of years after my intake. By the time I graduated, offshoring was all the rage and so I switched from Electronics to IT ( a good move at the time).

Firms are now suffering in the UK due to a lack of numbers of skilled people in the prime 35-49 age band. This is a direct consequence of cuts 20-25 years ago, plus this also the baby buster group (250k less born per annum). Meanwhile, whilst there are a few more Millennials about, a lot of them seem to have been unfortunately retarded by the educational experiments of the Blair Government (tested IQs fell by 3 points per year for each year of Labour’s education reforms - peak stupid being those who did GCSEs around 2010-12 still under the old system).

The good  news is that the old UK specialisms are very much in demand again and so should build up. IoT is driving demand for electronics and radio planning, whilst I can also dust off some of the Bayesian Analysis and Machine Learning skills from 20 years ago - these are hot in the IT space now.

The fundamental issue I think the UK has is that we let idiots with degrees in PPE from Oxford run things that should be left to Engineers and Scientists.The Germans have Merkel, whilst we have the Maybot (an exercise in artificial stupidity if ever I saw one!)

 

 

 

intresting points made.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

19 hours ago, nightowl said:

35-49 age band in electronics and IT...sound like me!  I suspect those same companies will lobby for fast track visas (beyond the EU so Brexit won't help) again to fill this imaginary skill gap.

Aside demographics any activity that's not directly related to the moneystream is low rank, so most design orientation engineers are considered an overhead cost so always seem very low down in the pecking order.....cue little violin symphony!  Also many of the retiring boomers from this industry hardly seem to recommend it.

You say that, but I think firms like Google and Facebook have made others realise that profit is now engineering led. There us a bit if pendulum effect in this.

As someone who has worked in engineering, in IT delivery and in Sales, I can say that an engineer is valued less at times when there is low innovation and differentiation in a market. At that point it us up to sales to keep the ship afloat, hence why sales gets well paid.

However, at certain points in time you do get genuine innovation and a hot product/capability bursts in to the scene. At that point innovation is key, so pay product engineering well else you won’t get it. Sales at that point may still be more technical, so you may want a recent convert from the tech world to pick up the sales role, but in general the selling should be relatively easy going for a while. Also in such circumstances there is little need to hire the relationship rep with the big contact book, as their contacts are probably old style and haven’t kept pace and do aren’t the buyers you want.