The Worlds Gone Mad

[LondonBuyer]

Well this one has got a bit fruity. A bit of calm, please !

I do not want to get drawn into the social analysis. Policemen are what they are.

The basic point is that it is a sign of the TOP OF A BOOM when people who are not normally interested in speculation or large commercial deals become interested in it and talk about it as an item of normal conversation.

The well-known example is of the shoeshine boyz of Wall Street talking about speculating in stocks as the 1928 - 1929 boom drew to its height before the Great Crash of 1929.

I don't think it is at all disrespectful to policemen to say that hearing them talk about BTL purchases and large mortgages is unusual and a sign of the TOP OF THE BOOM. Policemen are not property developers. They have a relatively secure job, and do not need to speculate in property to attain financial stability and a level of prosperity.

Whether policement are well-paid or ill-paid, and whether the public gets value for money from the police are really beside the point. The bitter comments about class and social attitudes are also beside the point. The point is that these policemen are not natural speculators.

Of course the police have every right to speculate with their hard-earned cash. So does everyone. But it would be a natural assumption that most policemen historically have not. This is because speculation is risky, and people who take secure jobs with set salaries are not natural risk-takers.

So all-in-all I think hearing policemen on the beat talk about their BTL purchases is a TOP OF THE BOOM signal. It is not quite yet a crash signal.

No doubt others will have other views ...

[Scooter]

Which police would they be? And do you think you could send a few over to replace the cops around where I live?

We don't even get incompetent coppers in NW3

[dogbox]

This is because speculation is risky, and people who take secure jobs with set salaries are not natural risk-takers.

So all-in-all I think hearing policemen on the beat talk about their BTL purchases is a TOP OF THE BOOM signal. It is not quite yet a crash signal.

You surely cant be very in touch with the real world?

The first B2Ls I knew worked in Indian and Turkish takeaways in the late 1980s. Very low pay didnt stop them from speculating.

Since then Ive known African Nurses, cleaners, teachers, printers, social workers and many more become comfortable via B2L.

You say 'speculation is risky'. Life is short and many of us realise NOT TO SPECULATE IS THE REAL RISK. By not speculating you risk not acheiving your potential and life ambitions.

We can all speculate, especially before the kids are born

[?...!]

You surely cant be very in touch with the real world?

The first B2Ls I knew worked in Indian and Turkish takeaways in the late 1980s. Very low pay didnt stop them from speculating.

Since then Ive known African Nurses, cleaners, teachers, printers, social workers and many more become comfortable via B2L.

You say 'speculation is risky'. Life is short and many of us realise NOT TO SPECULATE IS THE REAL RISK. By not speculating you risk not acheiving your potential and life ambitions.

We can all speculate, especially before the kids are born

You can speculate all you like but if you don't know when to cash your chips in you're reckless

[libitina]

We can all speculate, especially before the kids are born

That is true, but I don't think now is a good time for speculation. It would be more like financial suicide.

[heresjohnny]

Walked out the office W1 lunchtime, two PC plods walking the beat in front of me. They were discussing what they would do with a windfall. One guy said he would pay off the mortgage then said "oh and I suppose i would clear the debt on our rental house"

The world has clearly gone mad when a lowly PC is discussing his property portfolio.

Is it just me or are property developers getting younger every day?

[Brian Potter]

That's just the basic they get additional pay for overtime, shift allowances pay for attending events such as football matches etc.

Recently read that a beat officer can earn upto £100k a year. So £50k as an average seems about right.

It's not much these days for a state sector worker, to put it in context the average GP now earns £94,000 ( source MoneyWeek )

Hello, and welcome to Fantasy Island!

[dogbox]

That is true, but I don't think now is a good time for speculation. It would be more like financial suicide.

Its never the right time to speculate, buts its always time to find speculative arenas. UK property - probably not, but I hear Gibralter and Alderney have legs.

[libitina]

Its never the right time to speculate, buts its always time to find speculative arenas. UK property - probably not, but I hear Gibralter and Alderney have legs.

I thought you were looking at Germany or Poland or some such? And havent those 2 islands always been fairly dear due to a finite number of properties?

[LondonBuyer]

Dogbox,

I said I did not want to get into the social attitudes discussion, and I don't.

Your example of the workers in ethnic food takeaway shops is interesting.

I still believe that the correct analysis is that when people who DO NOT USUALLY SPECULATE get into speculating in something, that is a signal of the TOP OF THE BOOM.

Clearly, I also believe that policemen are completely entitled to speculate, but normally don't. The same would apply to cleaners, printers, social workers and workers in ethnic food takeaway shops. I am happy to be corrected.

The next question is why do some classes or groups or kinds of people speculate, and others not ? Others have linked this to low pay - not me. I did not want to get into the social attitudes stuff. You point out that some people with very little money have invested and speculated in the housing market. Fair play to them.

It is worth pointing out some people at the other end of the scale who are not naturally speculative. Most very rich people also don't speculate. They do not need to. They can invest at low risk, and live well on the proceeds. The extra bother and risk of more risky speculative investments is not a good idea for them. One, it is a hassle. Two, if it goes wrong, they lose their wealth and privilege. The downside is large, the upside is a sixth Mercedes to go with the other five - why bother ?

I think that speculation is an attitude of mind. It is not closely linked to how much money you have to start off with. It is linked to determination, judgment and the ability to see through cant.

That said, there are good times to get in, and good times to sell out. In my view, now is the time to get out of the housing market.

[cantmovewontmove]

Its a bit pants, im a PC and the missus is a teacher and we cant afford to move in anywhere unless we want to live in a shed!

Oh and by the way, hello.

(I've been lurking for some time)

Edited January 30, 2006 by cantmovewontmove

[Unexpected]

Some people must have had a stressful day at work going by their reactions.

Oh well, better not tell you about my mate who's a maintenance mechanic and a bit thick. He has a computer but doesnt know how to use it, never reads a newspaper or even watches the news. Well he reckons that now is a great time to buy property and the stock market is a mugs game.

[Guest muttley]

Am I right in thinking that a PC would lose his job if he were to be declared bankrupt?

I think it is an interesting anecdote as it shows that the general population (as represented by the aforementioned policeman) sees BTL as a form of investment,rather like premium bonds or ISAs.They are not aware of the risks involved because up until now there have been no risks.

[BuyingBear]

Oh and by the way, hello.

Evenin' all.

(I've been lurking for some time)

Isn't that considered entrapment?

[since the beginning]

Dogbox - not judging anyone here but do you think speculating on an asset worth hundred's of thousands should be open to everyone. I for one don't think I should be allowed (or would want to) to bet on House Price Inflation on my modest wage. You seem to think that property speculation should be available to people who can't afford to cover any change of circumstance.

As I first pointed out in this thread PC's are not necessarily on low wages especially if coupled with the fact they way have bought their main residence 10 years ago and thus potentially only have a mortgage of a couple of hundred pounds a month.

Taking class or job out of the equation and judging people purely on income (note I never judge the important things in live on income!) do you think people should be able to gamble with money and not suffer the consequences if things go wrong! Your stories of people having 10, 50, 100+ houses when they worked in Macdonald's mean little when we have experienced the biggest housing boom in history, along with 100% mortgages and extremely lax lending.

I don't mind people speculating on houses as long as if they lose they are forced to pay back every penny and are not allowed to buy another house until they have.

I think the original poster although I must admit it sounded to me very smug and self important was trying to say that the whole of the country can't gain of property as where would the money come from because houses certainly don't add any value to the initial money put in.

[Jason]

Its a bit pants, im a PC and the missus is a teacher and we cant afford to move in anywhere unless we want to live in a shed!

Oh and by the way, hello.

(I've been lurking for some time)

Wow, we have over 4000 members now!

Oh, and Hello!!!

[Jimmy James]

Wonderful example of the english disease. They can only reinforce their mindless, self inflated sense of

worth(lessness) by measuring their stunted selves against what they consider to be a lower class, usually a process involving a diminished intellect fed on a diet of petty prejudice marinated in pure bile.

The OP is a *****.

Look, there's nothing wrong with being snobbish about policemen.

If you're from the right, your average bobby, although fulfilling an important role, is still of the lower orders - rather like your estate manager. And if you're a man of the left then he's propping up an unacceptable social order through little more than misplaced national loyalties. Either way he's down the pecking order, somewhere near pub landlords, but with less imagination and slightly more power. As for diminished intellect, when was the last time you had an interesting conversation with a policeman?

Either your dad's a policeman or, even worse, you're foreign.

If a policeman is speculating on capital assets then it reflects both an inversion of the natural english order and a good sign of an overboiled market.

[FaTB]

Recently read that a beat officer can earn upto £100k a year. So £50k as an average seems about right.

What planet are you from ????

[Guest muttley]

Recently read that a beat officer can earn upto £100k a year. So £50k as an average seems about right.

Recently read that a bent officer can earn upto £100k a year.

[Anti_Claus]

As the immortal ZG113 would have said: A5SEWIPE.

Whatever happened to that guy?

[echapps]

http://www.policecouldyou.co.uk/default.as...n=article&ID=39

The pay scale for an Inspector ranges from £41,034 (£42,834 in London) for a newly promoted Inspector to £44,508 (£46,320) for an Inspector with three completed years of service in rank.

It seems £50k puts you at the top of the heap at the copshop.

[MarkG]

As for diminished intellect, when was the last time you had an interesting conversation with a policeman?

I've had some pretty interesting conversations with cops: but that was a few years ago, before they really started being used to enforce politcally correct nonsense at the expense of protecting the people who pay their wages. I suspect most of the cops I met back then are just waiting to collect their pension and get out, they can't be having much fun today.

If you're from the right, your average bobby, although fulfilling an important role, is still of the lower orders - rather like your estate manager.

Historically they were, and for good reason: they'd probably be fairly streetwise, have grown up knowing many of the crooks they were policing, and wouldn't worry too much about using a bit of 'muscle' to discourage youngsters from taking up a life of crime without dragging them into the courts and getting them a criminal record which could dog them for life. There are very good reasons why the police system grew up the way it did, but the systems that worked were mostly destroyed by 'progressives' since the 50s.