Steering wheel shudder

[DTMark]

What causes a car steering wheel to shudder when slowing down from speeds above about 50mph?

I've Googled this and all the results point to the brakes.

Yet, you don't need to be braking. It happens as soon as you lift off the throttle.

I thought it might be caused by improper wheel balancing but have had that checked and it's not that.

Can it still be caused by the brakes even when they're not applied?

[Errol]

Steering rack issue? Flat spots on tyres? ABS system malfunction? 

[Boomer Baby]

Front wheel drive?  CV joint (particularly if you hear "clicking" when turning hard right or left but barely moving), track rod ends, anti roll bar bushes, upper/lower damper bushes, steering rack, wheel bearing.

Rear wheel drive?  As above plus prop shaft UJ's.

If you're unsure what to look for then it should be a quick, simple job for a garage to put the car on a lift and check it over. Alternatively, if almost due for an MOT then do it now as they will check all the obvious things at a fixed price.

[The Knimbies who say No]

When you say you've had balancing done, do you also mean wheel alignment too?

Is it possible that a bush or bushes in the control arm, in the roll bar/linkage or the track rod end is giving up and moving about a bit? Might be worth a quick look if you can get the wheels off, tears etc may be quite obvious.

 

 

 

 

 

[DTMark]

Front wheel drive.

It has just (literally, this morning) had its MOT and failed on tyres. One rear is a fail and the front two are borderline.

All four are being replaced.

No other noises or symptoms, nothing else picked up. Tracking was checked fairly recently, though not sure if that was after the problem started.

Perhaps the change of tyres will sort it. Failing that we'll have to have it looked at in more detail.

[SarahBell]

8 minutes ago, DTMark said:

Front wheel drive.

It has just (literally, this morning) had its MOT and failed on tyres. One rear is a fail and the front two are borderline.

All four are being replaced.

No other noises or symptoms, nothing else picked up. Tracking was checked fairly recently, though not sure if that was after the problem started.

Perhaps the change of tyres will sort it. Failing that we'll have to have it looked at in more detail.

And it did this AFTER the MOT?

Take it back and get them to check what they have messed up.

[dougless]

Wheels being out of balance can cause this but as you have eliminated that you could look at drive shaft weights.  If one of these has come off it can cause this.

[DTMark]

It has been like this for about 6 weeks.

It's just co-incidence that the MOT was today and the tyres have been replaced as a result of that, not specifically to fix this issue.

[SNACR]

If it's not while the footbrake is applied also it could be a sticking caliper issue possibly or pads leaving friction material deposits on the discs under harsh braking although seems unlikely if it's as soon as you lift off the throttle. If nothing else picked up on the mot, my prime suspect would be a bearing that's on the way out but no detectable play when stationery, so not picked up on mot, which the heat from braking from higher speeds exacerbates it.

What's the model/age/mileage?

[Bossybabe]

First stop should be balancing wheels.

[the gardener]

1 hour ago, DTMark said:

Front wheel drive.

It has just (literally, this morning) had its MOT and failed on tyres. One rear is a fail and the front two are borderline.

All four are being replaced.

No other noises or symptoms, nothing else picked up. Tracking was checked fairly recently, though not sure if that was after the problem started.

Perhaps the change of tyres will sort it. Failing that we'll have to have it looked at in more detail.

IIRC you've got quite a high performance car. You really should keep a closer eye on your tyres. Never wait till they're illegal or borderline before replacing them. This goes doubly for high performance cars as they often get pushed a bit harder than the average town runabout.

[Frank Hovis]

Is it purely steering wheel shudder Mark, no noise?

(I ask before I pitch in with what I had last year as this was primarily noise on lifting off, I don't wish to muddy the waters)

[DTMark]

This is a Skoda Fabia which I think is about five years old and quite low mileage. I don't drive it very often. High performance, it is not  While seemingly well put together, it has small wheels and high sides and the handling, when pushed, is - shall we say - entertaining. it doesn't really endear you to drive it at speed.

There's no noise. Just a shake from the steering wheel when coming off the throttle (doesn't seem to be connected with braking) at over 50mph which I'd associated in the past with incorrect balancing, but it's not that. Incorrect tracking is a possibility, but I feel sure we had that checked fairly recently.

[Sledgehead]

 

1 hour ago, DTMark said:

It has been like this for about 6 weeks.

It's just co-incidence that the MOT was today and the tyres have been replaced as a result of that, not specifically to fix this issue.

 

1 hour ago, SarahBell said:

And it did this AFTER the MOT?

Take it back and get them to check what they have messed up.

I think SB is suggesting this represents, as Tennant would put it, an 'opportunity'.

[workingpoor]

1 or more brake calipers sticking slightly, most likely just the one. 

causing inbalance which is felt through the steering wheel, will be most apparent around 50mph and may not show at lower speeds.

Go for a drive and then feel the temperature of both front wheels i bet one will be considerably hotter than the other. 

(dont burn your fingers and DO NOT touch the brake disc or you will burn your fingerprints off) 

Refurb the caliper you can get one on an exchange basis they send you a new refurbed one and you send them your old one. Or just stump up about £90 for a caliper and then new pads + fitting 

[SNACR]

7 minutes ago, workingpoor said:

1 or more brake calipers sticking slightly, most likely just the one. 

causing inbalance which is felt through the steering wheel, will be most apparent around 50mph and may not show at lower speeds.

Go for a drive and then feel the temperature of both front wheels i bet one will be considerably hotter than the other. 

(dont burn your fingers and DO NOT touch the brake disc or you will burn your fingerprints off) 

Refurb the caliper you can get one on an exchange basis they send you a new refurbed one and you send them your old one. Or just stump up about £90 for a caliper and then new pads + fitting 

All diagnosis hinges on the rigour of the MOT but would have expected an advisory on the brakes and also anything suspension and driveshaft related to have been given a good going over for play really.

Fair chance gearbox is shagged so need to be a bit careful on throwing money at hopeful cheap fixes.

 

[workingpoor]

Oh well.

The reason the judder is felt coming off the throttle is because the wheels (and brake discs) are slowing, one is slowing quicker than the other due to sticking caliper. 

Fix caliper now before disc is warped from the heat. 

(one other point, did the car go on the brake test rollers at the mot station? these hammer the the brakes and cause problems like sticking calipers etc and also damage diff's if RWD) 

Could try going back to garage and pin it on them ask them to strip and lubricate the caliper, this wont cost them anything and they might do it as a favour

[dougless]

6 minutes ago, SNACR said:

All diagnosis hinges on the rigour of the MOT but would have expected an advisory on the brakes and also anything suspension and driveshaft related to have been given a good going over for play really.

Fair chance gearbox is shagged so need to be a bit careful on throwing money at hopeful cheap fixes.

 

Don't depress the chap too much.  There are plenty of things that could cause this which are not gearbox related.  Good advice about not throwing too much dosh at it though.  How old is the car Mark?

[SNACR]

8 minutes ago, workingpoor said:

Oh well.

The reason the judder is felt coming off the throttle is because the wheels (and brake discs) are slowing, one is slowing quicker than the other due to sticking caliper. 

Fix caliper now before disc is warped from the heat. 

(one other point, did the car go on the brake test rollers at the mot station? these hammer the the brakes and cause problems like sticking calipers etc and also damage diff's if RWD) 

Could try going back to garage and pin it on them ask them to strip and lubricate the caliper, this wont cost them anything and they might do it as a favour

Warped discs are a bit of an urban myth really. Brakes were also originally on my radar but knowing the car model I think it less likely. If it is brakes there should will be a pulsating sensation through the pedal under braking.

[workingpoor]

5 minutes ago, SNACR said:

Warped discs are a bit of an urban myth really. Brakes were also originally on my radar but knowing the car model I think it less likely. If it is brakes there should will be a pulsating sensation through the pedal under braking.

Yes i agree on pulsating felt in pedal under light braking, (possibly not felt on heavy) 

Could try very light feather touch braking and check for pulsation? 

"IF" one wheel is considerably hotter than the other then a mobile mechanic will jack up / strip and lube caliper & carrier for about £40/50 (short term fix tho) add new pads for a better outcome? circa £90

[SNACR]

10 minutes ago, dougless said:

Don't depress the chap too much.  There are plenty of things that could cause this which are not gearbox related.  Good advice about not throwing too much dosh at it though.  How old is the car Mark?

The thing is bushes, balljoints, CV joints etc. ought to all have been covered by the MOT and the wheels have been balance so it's not that long.

[nnails]

Might be lack of power steering fluid. That's easy to check .

[dougless]

16 minutes ago, nnails said:

Might be lack of power steering fluid. That's easy to check .

I think that Fabia's have electric power steering.

[whitevanman]

I wouldn't worry about it. It will probably go away with new tyres. Vibration from wheel and tyre balance can come and go with small changes in speed. A little vibration is common as tyres wear and go out of balance. Vibration under braking is usually pad deposits, cured by repeated high speed braking and avoiding applying brakes at a standstill.

Edit: cars that sit for a long time get flat spots on the tyres which causes vibration, cured by regular use.

[long time lurking]

Inner CV joint is my take on it easy`ish to diagnose as follows ....when you slow (lift off the throttle)  and the vibration/shudder occurs try gradually applying the throttle (not to gain speed just maintain it) and see if the shudder stops

You will also find the shudder is more noticeable when coasting down hill and it mainly manifests itself at higher speeds and gradually "works"  it`s way down the speed range as the wear get`s worse this could take thousands of miles if the cv boot is intact

OS is the likely culprit as IIRC they still use  long drive shaft set up (no intermediate on the OS)  on a fabia  

7 hours ago, DTMark said:

This is a Skoda Fabia which I think is about five years old and quite low mileage. I don't drive it very often. High performance, it is not  While seemingly well put together, it has small wheels and high sides and the handling, when pushed, is - shall we say - entertaining. it doesn't really endear you to drive it at speed.

There's no noise. Just a shake from the steering wheel when coming off the throttle (doesn't seem to be connected with braking) at over 50mph which I'd associated in the past with incorrect balancing, but it's not that. Incorrect tracking is a possibility, but I feel sure we had that checked fairly recently.