Executive Sadman Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 No NHS Probably many cheap private providers. No TV Must be....how could Putin brainwash everyone without telly, the govt tells me this is how things are No Internet No Mobile Network Somalia got both of these, cheapest in the world. Satellite. No winter fuel allowance Siberia is full of trees to chop down, store and burn. ---- Express readers won't last 5 minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Supposedly Zhirinovsky is simply there as a plant of the Kremlin to sound extreme so putin is the voice of moderation. It makes sense. No one I talk to has anything good to say about Cameron. But virtually everyone seems to have voted for him because he is portrayed as a centrist, a moderate. A lot of people think Parties like UKIP or the greens split the right and left. In fact I think they are able to frame the more mainstream parties as 'moderate' and due to FPTP are actually beneficial. According to whom? We have politicians like Zhirinovsky in many countries (obviously, Farage here). Cameron got elected because the alternatives on offer looked worse. None of the above wasn't on the ballot. Greens probably do split the left a bit, but if you think back to pre-Green times it was the vast array of nutjobs satirised in the Peoples Front of Judea. UKIP's a bit more complicated: it's got trad. right wing support, but also a working class socialist support base inherited from the BNP and expanded by being treated as more respectable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfr Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 sakhalin has got substantial oil+gas reserves, so might be worth a punt. although the BP/TNK deal that went a bit pete-tong is a rather offputting. Sakhalin 1 is Exxon joint venture, Sakhakin 2 is Shell joint venture. Still there. Still going strong. The land you'll get in Sakhalin won't be on the outskirts of Yuzhno so you can build a block of flats. It'll be in the @rse end of nowhere! Sakhalin is nearly 600 miles long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qetesuesi Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Like the Pitcairn thread a few months ago, this is just the kind of topic that gets me thinking about how I would attempt to pull it off, even though under present circumstances (married, children at school) there's no way I'd consider it no matter how disappointed I was with life in Britain. A few issues which nobody here seems to have mentioned yet: (1) Language. Russian has a reputation for difficulty. How long will this offer be kept open? If not for long, then the entire idea may be implausible if I couldn't learn enough Russian before departure, otherwise how could I get along and manage the bills, haggle with local bureaucrats without it (and I guess there'd be plenty of corruption-gauntlet-running to be done). I fancy that the Brits the Russian Embassy claims have already registered an interest, will be people already with some knowledge of the language, who are confident of fitting in quickly - otherwise why bother? (2) Occupation. One of the relevant Express articles cites the Russians as suggesting that new arrivals could go into farming, forestry, game-hunting, all this bold outdoor stuff. Sounds like they just want their 2.5 acres brought under cultivation or something. I'd have a completely different approach: cover the allotment with a solar farm to run off grid (with the aid of the odd stockpile of wood and a few gas canisters during winter), and for sure get independent water supply via http://www.elementfour.com/ or similar. And obviously, I'd earn my living off the internet (which is a crucial factor, and I'd hope at least satellite internet was reliable/affordable enough), and the Russians should at any rate be satisfied that I'd be spending locally to help the local economy (again, need to check the efficiency of the banking system). (3) Residency conditions. It says you need to stick it out for 5 years before they'll grant you citizenship and you can pull out - but what counts as 5 years? How much of each year do you need to spend inside Russia (I assume they have no way of telling if you're actually on your lodge in the back of beyond)? I'd assume something like not more than 90 days outside - in which case I'd obviously skip the depth of winter and head south to some low-cost tropical Asian area(s). If I were allowed more than 90 days out, I'd also probably take some time out of the uncomfortably hot peak of summer, this time likely to nearby Japan where I'd know where to hang out. If I couldn't do that, then a big supply of katori senko would be a must. The other aspect of residency is about tax. I guess most of us know about the 13% flat tax in Russia, but I just found out that it goes up to 30% if you're not classed as resident (and you have to stay 183+ days in a Russian financial year - which is a calendar year - to qualify as such). Well I suppose this offer probably implies mandatory residency so that's not an issue; but if it were, could Russia really tax a non-resident foreigner on income arising outside Russia, as per internet? Obviously I'd try to get it reckoned under UK tax to use the personal allowance which I imagine would be pretty high by Russian standards, especially in circumstances where I had no running housing costs once I'd paid local tradesmen to build the lodge with its Swiss-style steep roof for snow to slide off, in a solar-panelled compound surrounded by electric fence to ward off bears and perhaps miscreant humans. Re. the climate in general - yes, it has wild extremes, but probably not much more than between the extremes to be found in (different parts of) Japan. Remarkably, Khabarovsk is about 1° further south than Lizard Point! There, that only leaves another 167 obstacles that I've totally failed to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-so Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 I'm working in Russia. I asked some Russians what they thought about the idea. Free land for them. Never mind the Brits. Well the response was laughter. I asked why... The land on offer is in Sakhalin/Khabarovsk areas and a few others. There is nothing there. Bare scrub land. No roads to speak of, no services, jobs, etc etc. It's akin to being in US in the wild frontier way back when. The land will/is poor quality and not good enough or big enough to farm... Then throw in the climate, bears etc. It's just a gimmick! If the Russians aren't interested, can you imagine how the Brits would cope!!?? Whenever I fly over the Siberian wilderness I an always struck by the vastness of it and how utterly desolate it is and for a very good reason. There is a good reason why it had not become permanently settled - much of the land is off very poor quality.Putin may as well give our plots on the moon or Sahara desert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Me big strong nice man. Please break up EU and come to me f*cktards. Signed, Papa Putin X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) Mind you it's come to something when 80% would even consider making a go of it in a place like Siberia rather than the UK - UK 2016. It does sort of put the Soviet Gulag into perspective. Edited May 22, 2016 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Hug Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Cold / wilderness will be the least of my worries. Corrupt officials and constant worries about who and how to give bribes to will be much more of in issue for me personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snugglybear Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Mind you it's come to something when 80% would even consider making a go of it in a place like Siberia rather than the UK - UK 2016. It does sort of put the Soviet Gulag into perspective. Or it tells you something about the standard of knowledge possessed by the 80% about... ooh, anything really, but in this specific case, geography, politics, economics, jurisprudence, agriculture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) Or it tells you something about the standard of knowledge possessed by the 80% about... ooh, anything really, but in this specific case, geography, politics, economics, jurisprudence, agriculture. Very likely - during the cold war era Siberia and the Gulag were synonymous with the harshest treatment any Soviet ruler could mete out to "dissidents" in terms of exile. These days and the UK's slightest wintry cold snap gets tagged with Siberian, Baltic or Arctic etc weather. Even so it's not difficult to find out with a quick search although it is very variable it being a huge region https://weather.com/news/news/earths-coldest-town-siberia-20130123#/1 http://www.climatestotravel.com/Climate/Siberia and it's unlikely that the full 80% aren't that aware considering the UK's average age is supposed to be relatively high and during the cold war era the press and TV media including movies, books and popular magazines relentlessly made people aware of the Siberian Gulag as being one of the harshest places on earth for anyone in Soviet Russia to be exiled. Past exiles who somehow got away being interviewed and broadcast on popular shows on UK TV and radio etc to describe how harsh it was/is. They seemed to tone it down a bit after the fall of the Berlin wall in 1990 etc so a few years before that time is probably some sort of knowledge cut off in age terms. Edited May 22, 2016 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgul Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 and it's unlikely that the full 80% aren't that aware considering the UK's average age is supposed to be relatively high and during the cold war era the press and TV media including books and popular magazines relentlessly made people aware of the Siberian Gulag as being one of the harshest places on earth for anyone in Soviet Russia to be exiled. Past exiles who somehow got away being interviewed and broadcast on popular shows on UK TV and radio etc to describe how harsh it was/is. They seemed to tone it down a bit after the fall of the Berlin wall in 1990 etc so a few years before that time is probably some sort of knowledge cut off in age terms. Maybe - but people are stupid when it comes to memory. Vast numbers of people have now forgotten 'Russia = enemy in cold war', and are now 'Russia = pretty girls', with a little sprinkle of 'Russia = wealthy oligarchs' every time Litvinenko is mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) Maybe - but people are stupid when it comes to memory. Vast numbers of people have now forgotten 'Russia = enemy in cold war', and are now 'Russia = pretty girls', with a little sprinkle of 'Russia = wealthy oligarchs' every time Litvinenko is mentioned. That's the age cut off and Russia remodelled and remarketed for western consumption again. The propaganda changed a lot soon after the fall of the Berlin wall. For sure most of those old enough to remember won't forget the old style propaganda (babushka queues around the block for a couple of under the counter sausages. Empty shelves and not a pretty girl in sight - yeah right these days you would think it was just a scary Brexit story) - propaganda that is starting to be resurrected again although so far absent the Siberian Gulag. Edited May 22, 2016 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Hug Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 For sure most of those old enough to remember won't forget the old style propaganda (babushka queues around the block for a couple of under the counter sausages. Empty shelves and not a pretty girl in sight .. You can call it propaganda but empty shop shelves were very real in Russia in the late 80s. And Zimbabwe-style inflation. And having to get coupons as well as money so you can buy your allocation of sugar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) You can call it propaganda but empty shop shelves were very real in Russia in the late 80s. And Zimbabwe-style inflation. And having to get coupons as well as money so you can buy your allocation of sugar. Certainly the UK press/media was regularly full of those images/that propaganda even if real. Almost as scary as the recent scary Brexit stuff. Mind you nowadays it's difficult to find images of those times - some sort of censorship? No pretty girls then just babushkas helping with the road works, railways and on the building sites and queuing for under the counter sausages - and helping to keep up with tractor production. Indeed stories about the rationing coupons as well - like stories about the Soviet's Siberian Gulag and the awful harsh environment of the region few around at the time would forget its coverage in the UK. That's why it's come to something when 80% of UK people would now consider making a go of it there. Likely that'll only be because of the possible Brexit Edited May 23, 2016 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Maybe - but people are stupid when it comes to memory. Vast numbers of people have now forgotten 'Russia = enemy in cold war', and are now 'Russia = pretty girls', with a little sprinkle of 'Russia = wealthy oligarchs' every time Litvinenko is mentioned. Nevertheless it's quite a remarkable propaganda coup for Putin. Admittedly can't claim for the Brexit angle -,the Express are financial backers for UKIP after all -,but the pro Putin fawning in the story is almost baffling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agentimmo Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I'll sound like a broken record. Say it every time this type of thread appears on HPC : I left the UK 25yrs ago to live in France. Wouldn't consider ever returning permanently. Sure, France has issues but the quality of life is incomparable. I've always wondered why the British don't riot more.... Passive acceptance of the status quo has delivered the UK one sees today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olde guto Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Certainly the UK press/media was regularly full of those images/that propaganda even if real. Almost as scary as the recent scary Brexit stuff. Mind you nowadays it's difficult to find images of those times - some sort of censorship? No pretty girls then just babushkas helping with the road works, railways and on the building sites and queuing for under the counter sausages - and helping to keep up with tractor production. Indeed stories about the rationing coupons as well - like stories about the Soviet's Siberian Gulag and the awful harsh environment of the region few around at the time would forget its coverage in the UK. That's why it's come to something when 80% of UK people would now consider making a go of it there. Likely that'll only be because of the possible Brexit Search youtube for Очереди в СССР or USSR queues you'll see plenty of examples of what used to go on in the USSR. It's worth remembering most of the footage from those days is on film or video cassette so needs to be digitised, it's not as easy as filming a cat video on your phone and uploading it to youtube. So it's not quite as readily available. Scary brexit stories? Like the one about us (and the Greeks and Cypriots) not being able to veto Turkish membership if we stay or have I got the wrong groupthink category? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 The grass is always greener. Even when it's under several feet of snow, or just sticking up through mosquito-breeding puddles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) That's the one thing I just cannot work out, why are the young not angry, they have every right to be. Is it maybe that they vet their anger on social media and then get it out of their system that way. What part of France? There is a few times I could have over stayed my welcome in Normandy and Brittany, I wonder why I do not go there sometimes. Even Portugal now like I said, quality of life is out of this world for for far less money. Well, yes hence voting not to be locked up in this crazy place lol !A bunch of oldies trying to conserve things as they are and keeping their future debt slaves chained up vs yoof trying to keep a plan B option open... Edited May 23, 2016 by pig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashinmattress Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 The misguided sense of entitlement folk have in Blighty is off the scale. All of these idiots are welcome to leave. Enjoy winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 The misguided sense of entitlement modest aspiration folk have in Blighty is off the scale. All of these idiots are welcome to leave. Enjoy winter. There - fixed for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lulu Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 80% of Brits would be happy to quit UK for RUSSIA after Putin offers free land ALMOST eight out of 10 citizens would seriously considering quitting Britain and emigrating to Russia, a poll by Express.co.uk has revealed. Nearly 80% of people who responded for our poll said they were considering moving to Russia Disillusioned by life in modern Britain, 78% of more than 22,000 respondents replied “Yes! Bargain” to the question “Would you move to Russia in exchange for free land?” The revelation came after it was revealed that Russian president Vladimir Putin is offering 2.5 acres of land for free to people willing to move to the country’s Siberian wilderness in a bid to boost the area’s economy. The scheme has captured the imagination of the British public, many of whom have been seduced by the area’s stunning natural beauty as well as Mr Putin’s no-nonsense leadership style. Simon Sharp told Express.co.uk: "As soon as I read about it my wife and I discussed it. "There's a certain amount of romanticism. The idea of going back to nature in such a remote area. It would be down to us to test our mettle. "There's also definitely disillusionment with the UK, with British life. We're all subservient, we won't know what's going on." We are told that there are many millions of persecuted souls fleeing Islamic nutjobs from sub-Saharan Africa to Syria, rather than let them into already population dense Europe why not send them to russia? all those brain surgeons and doctors would surely be an asset to to vast empty spaces of Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) Search youtube for Очереди в СССР or USSR queues you'll see plenty of examples of what used to go on in the USSR. It's worth remembering most of the footage from those days is on film or video cassette so needs to be digitised, it's not as easy as filming a cat video on your phone and uploading it to youtube. So it's not quite as readily available. Scary brexit stories? Like the one about us (and the Greeks and Cypriots) not being able to veto Turkish membership if we stay or have I got the wrong groupthink category? I did exactly that (Search youtube for Очереди в СССР or USSR queues) and couldn't find the typical babushka's round the block empty shelf queues for a couple of under the counter sausages images etc dated back to the old Soviet days - say pre 1990 more than 26 years ago). The sort of images regularly published in the mainstream press and sometimes covered on TV. Maybe there are some but apparently not using those search terms. Plenty of images of queues within the last couple of years or so (well post Soviet) but not that dissimilar to queues you might see in some places in the UK especially on sales days. By doing a search you can see plenty of still press images of UK (even US) people and situations going back decades (it doesn't have to be videos - of cats or digitised or otherwise) but it seems not for the desperate empty shelves queues in the Soviet era yet they were published pretty much everywhere at the time. That and the harshness of Siberia etc. Scary Brexit stories? - just about every official Bremain groupthink story line and story outlet on virtually every subject imaginable and not necessarily related to Turkey, Greece or Cyprus. Edited May 23, 2016 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Hug Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I did exactly that (Search youtube for Очереди в СССР or USSR queues) and couldn't find the typical babushka's round the block empty shelf queues for a couple of under the counter sausages images etc dated back to the old Soviet days - say pre 1990 more than 26 years ago). The sort of images regularly published in the mainstream press and sometimes covered on TV. Maybe there are some but apparently not using those search terms. I didn't have an iphone on me in the 80's but here is a short summary of what was available and when (this is on outskirts of the country, I am sure Moscow was better): - milk / bread - every day, don't recall any shortages. Although there were still queues quite often. Mainly due to a shortage of actual shops. I.e. a large village say 5k population could have just one state shop selling bread - sugar - allocated with coupons - butter - somewhere in between sugar and milk - available but not always - fruit / vegetables - available when in season. Remember a short period when It was quite normal to go to supermarket and the only things there were beetroot and potatos. We actually needed an allotment to grow our own, not just for some organic fun. E.g. watermelons could arrive on a truck maybe once a month and only in summer. Various produce was available from private sellers on a market but prices were high, unaffordable for significant proportion of people. Clothes - imagine living in a large city but the entire selection of available outfits is about the size of clothes section in Tesco. If you want some choice - why not travel 1000 miles to Moscow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) ^ apparently if you took enough blue jeans to Russia in those days you could make a fortune - and when Elton John held a concert there towards the end of the Soviet era (1979?) it all went crazy according to the reports. Maybe they've improved the Siberian weather . Edited May 24, 2016 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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