Finding A Place In Se London - Will It Ever Happen?

[flb]

If things are fine, you can buy soon, and be okay either way?

1. Everyone wants to think that they're middle class...The way I see it, you've got these 3 categories:

- lower class; they generally barely get by, after covering their necessities (shelter, food etc) they tend to be left or nothing or worse, struggle with debt. Typically found at Aldi.

- middle class: they cover their necessities easily, they afford a few things deemed "luxuries" (say, holidays abroad as an example), they can afford to buy expensive stuff (like a house or a new car), but not outright, they generally have to borrow the money (mortgage etc). Typically found whatever, they shop wherever they feel like going, they don't have to choose based on money, value, vouchers etc. "Whichever is the closest" is the general rule.

- upper class: they don't know what a mortgage is and aren't really interested in finding out either. If they want a property (or more), they can probably scrap sufficient change from yesterday's outgoing. Some of them (the lower echelon) can be found roaming around houses only sold to "cash buyers".

I don't define "lower, middle, upper" based on origins or job title or education. My definition is loosely based on disposable income. I can't see many teachers fitting my definition of "middle class". I'm sure there are quite a few (especially if you broaden the definition to include some university personnel), but my guess is most of them don't fit the bill. Not if this is accurate, anyway: http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=High_School_Teacher/Salary

2. Unfortunately, like I said, I'm MIDDLE class. That means I can't afford to buy outright (not here, anyway; for now I'm not looking at other areas of the country) and would have to go for a mortgage. While I'm semi-OK with the idea, I'm not OK with what's on the market. That also has to do with middle class - I won't just get into debt over a shithole - I expect it to be something that's worth the trouble. If it isn't, I'll just wait and/or consider other options. Besides, "things are fine" NOW. Nobody knows how things are going to be in 5 years. My calculations show that I'd need 8 years to pay for the kind of house I have in mind (350-400k at this time) and so far, I haven't seen many on the market anyway.

[flb]

Eh ? Surely 'middle' means what it says on the tin.

Anyone who earns within 25% either side of the London median full time salary is firmly 'middle class' in terms of earnings.

IF that definition is correct ("surely"), then can someone explain how exactly is it that the middle class is shrinking? (and it has been doing so for over a decade)

That used to be true before "the 1%" became a reality. At the time, my definition of middle class included the exact same people you're including in yours. Unfortunately, things have changed.

As far as I'm concerned, the middle class can afford a mortgage, a new car, a holiday and still has (decent) savings.

[flb]

On brexit - the politicians are all in it for themselves. I ask you to think for yourself. Do you think increasing a union of people on lower and lower salaries will benefit the workers on higher salaries or the capitalists who already have capital. When doctors earn £5000/year in macedonia when it joins the EU what will happen to doctors salaries?

They'll stay the same or increase. The salaries of Macedonian doctors that choose to move to richer countries will increase - by a lot. Personally, I'm fine with that. If my life is in danger, I'd rather have it saved by a Macedonian doctor than ended by the lack of a doctor. I really don't care where he was born. Many hospitals are already struggling with the lack of doctors - junior or otherwise, as everyone that has read the press already knows. The fact that other countries (like Australia or America) are already paying doctors MUCH, MUCH more and facilitating their visa/work permits already tips the balance.

Sure things will be uncertain, anyone who can predict the future is lying - they don't actually have a clue what would happen. I see the separatist movements across EU rising

...and the one thing they have in common is their main friend and their visits to Kremlin. It could be a coincidence. Or could it?

more and more people saying they are unhappy, whilst the EU replaces their democratically elected officials

Cheap scapegoat for the plebs.

To begin with, the EU officials are elected just as democratically as the MPs here, for example. You vote for your candidate in your area. You don't get to vote for the other 649 - they're not democratically elected BY YOU, but by people from that area. You have no say in it. That's exactly how the EU democracy works. You get to vote for your MEPs, while other areas (countries) vote for theirs and in the end, you have a mix. You have Labour, LibDem, Tories and UKIP. And you have British, French, German etc in the EU. It's the exact same kind of democracy, with one mention: they're not all British. And...? Do the 650 British MPs want what's good for you? Cause if they do, the effects are sure strange.

The "democratically elected" "argument" is lame propaganda and doesn't have two feet to stand on.

Yes, more and more people are unhappy across ... everywhere, not just Europe. It's not because of the EU - it's because of a relative level of poverty. It's quite unfortunate that that, again, has nothing to do with the EU. This is the HPC forum. Did the EU create the BTL problem? How come I'm not seeing that problem in France or Germany then? Could it be that it has more to do with those 650 "democratically elected" British MPs than it does with German, French, Spanish, Italian etc people?

The way I see it, and this is personal opinion, we are in for a slow grind for 30+ years to average out our living standards across the EU - eventually better for everyone, lower for us.

Not across the EU. Across the planet. Talk to Americans, they'll tell you they're experiencing the exact same thing. Talk to Asians - they'll tell you the same thing. Even Russians. Are any of them in the EU? Could it have more to do with the 1% and nothing to do with the EU? I certainly think so.

Or we have 18 months of shit-storm pick a direction and move forward faster than the EU can write a pointless communication to "work together to solve the problem". Even if we are wrong we can change direction, the EU can't it is stuck with the same thinking because they can't admit that at least some of their setup is not working.

The EU is slow. Occasionally it's also undecided. Occasionally it talks a lot and does too little. But when it comes to direction, it wins - hands down. But for the common people, the EU is rarely the problem. Let's take this well known example: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/01/steel-crisis-uk-accused-blocking-eu-attempts-regulate-chinese-dumping (also available on the telegraph and other media outlets).

So the EU wanted to impose tariffs on Chinese steel dumping to protect EU steel workers. The UK pretty much veto'd that after selling out to China. The result? Go visit Port Talbot and see for yourself. Lack of certainty, the possible destruction of entire communities of British people, BY the "democratically elected" British government. Even a blind man can see who exactly is behind that.

The EU wants to regulate the so-called tax-havens - from Luxembourg to the British Virgin Islands. I wonder who DOESN'T want that. Could it be the "democratically elected" David Cameron - top notch Brit?

The EU has its problems, yes. Its goals do not include every EU citizen equal in terms of income. Its goals are quite simple:

- make sure that countries are so intertwined that wars on the continent are impractical, next to impossible. I think it has done a marvelous job in that regard.

- make sure that European countries can stand together against external economic threats. The UK, Germany, France - none of these countries would stand a chance against the army of cheap suicidal workers - like the ones from Foxconn, for example. An economy like China could squash any competitor in a matter of months - as they're now doing with steel. But when the EU countries stand together and protect their own, the "competition" can't really squash a 500M market, that's beyond impractical. They'd bankrupt themselves first. This isn't limited to China, by the way.

- with the "normal" wars and economical wars out of the way, try to improve life for common people, as much as possible.

Yes, the EU does have problems. Yes, it is slow. Yes, it occasionally fails to act quickly when needed - the refugee crisis is a perfect example. It's somewhat difficult to get dozens of cultures to see things the same way and agree on what needs to be done and where. It's difficult to get people to agree as long as they agree to their two dimes local patriotism. Visit any country in Europe - people everywhere think THEY are superior. I mean, even Greece (lol) has a far right party preaching that Greeks are awesome and the rest of the world is wrong and evil etc. It's the same everywhere - including here. Lots of British people run around thinking they're THE thing. They talk about THEIR country when they don't own a small parcel of land and if they didn't, they'd need permission to build on it. But it's THEIR country, you see...Even I used to talk about MY country. And then I found out that in MY country, if I wanted a roof above my head, I'd have to buy one using borrowed money from an American bank .. and pay back interest. But it was MY country, right? Word on the street is if it found itself attacked, it would expect me to defend it. I'd have to. It would only be patriotic to make sure the people exploiting me are safe and sound. Wouldn't want to risk having a democratically elected official I've never met lose his job or God forbid, a limb. No matter the cost.

As for me, I'm all for brexit. For completely different (and I admit, selfish) reasons, of course.

[wherebee]

Costa Rica sounds nice...but what will i do, sell coconuts on the beach?! It has to be somewhere with banking industry so I can earn some level of income e.g. Dubai, Qatar, Singapore, Australia, California..these are my ideal places in that order. If I move it will be abroad not up north

But I would still like to have somewhere in the UK and rent out, in case I have to return in 5-10 years due to job loss etc, in which case God knows how high prices will be , plus I don't have rich family. At the moment even 350k hardly anything decent comes on but this is x5 my income plus most my savings, my parents will pay stamp duty+legal fees which helps a bit.

Service charges/extending lease costs are a waste, most newer places in London are £150 per month + 300£ for ground rent.

I cant imagine how people on normal incomes/minimum wages will ever even have a chance, which is sad.

Dublin.

english speaking, property has dipped, financial sector still hiring, culture and lifestyle great, connected everywhere by plane.

If I was under 40 and wanted to stay in Europe, Ireland would be my first choice right now.

[bluegnu]

Yup, another one here in a similar situation. Income of circa £70k and a £100k deposit ready but nothing that I can afford worth buying.

I've been watching the Croydon area for about 5 years or so. It was only after the crash that I started looking at the market to buy and was pleasantly surprised that, actually, I might be able to afford somewhere. Thinking it through I decided to wait, save a bit more and go for a house rather than a flat and just have done with it. Well, we all know what happened next; boom! £100k - £150k added to pretty much everything over the past couple of years. I suppose I could compromise and buy a flat but I'm just fed up with living in a flat, let alone the fact that they are imho outrageously over priced. The occasional house comes on the market at a price I could afford but good god wotaloadoshite. Thankfully, my landlord has been easy with the rent increases over the years and in return I reckon I'm a good tenant for him. A couple of flats in the small block I'm in have come onto the market recently - if I dropped a £100k deposit and took a cheap 2y fixed rate mortgage then, believe it or not, my rent is still cheaper! As far as I'm concerned we've passed the event horizon.

Personally, I'm 'happy' to sit it out for another year or two (not that I have much choice!). Not only are there real changes going on now (mortgage rates nearly bottoming out, MMR rules for owners, second home stamp duty, BTL tax changes, BTL MMR style rules coming etc, etc), but there is also so much negative press coming out now about property and especially about London property. I'm in my mid 40's now though so I do feel that time is ticking away. It's been especially hard watching some of my friends/colleagues (some 10y younger than me) buy nice family homes over the past 3 years aided by bubble equity from a flat bought previously and are now pouring money into their properties with extensions and loft conversions ("the house is making 10% a year vs 1% in the bank").

God knows how all this is actually going to end up, it really is one giant flustercuck. All I know is that if people don't have access to more money then they can't pay higher prices and most of the mechanisms that allow folks to borrow more money are now coming to an end. Sorry, not much advice here, but just wanted to get it off my chest and let you know you're not the only one who sees the situation as it is.

[flb]

Yup, another one here in a similar situation. Income of circa £70k and a £100k deposit ready but nothing that I can afford worth buying.

I've been watching the Croydon area for about 5 years or so. It was only after the crash that I started looking at the market to buy and was pleasantly surprised that, actually, I might be able to afford somewhere. Thinking it through I decided to wait, save a bit more and go for a house rather than a flat and just have done with it. Well, we all know what happened next; boom! £100k - £150k added to pretty much everything over the past couple of years. I suppose I could compromise and buy a flat but I'm just fed up with living in a flat, let alone the fact that they are imho outrageously over priced. The occasional house comes on the market at a price I could afford but good god wotaloadoshite. Thankfully, my landlord has been easy with the rent increases over the years and in return I reckon I'm a good tenant for him. A couple of flats in the small block I'm in have come onto the market recently - if I dropped a £100k deposit and took a cheap 2y fixed rate mortgage then, believe it or not, my rent is still cheaper! As far as I'm concerned we've passed the event horizon.

Personally, I'm 'happy' to sit it out for another year or two (not that I have much choice!). Not only are there real changes going on now (mortgage rates nearly bottoming out, MMR rules for owners, second home stamp duty, BTL tax changes, BTL MMR style rules coming etc, etc), but there is also so much negative press coming out now about property and especially about London property. I'm in my mid 40's now though so I do feel that time is ticking away. It's been especially hard watching some of my friends/colleagues (some 10y younger than me) buy nice family homes over the past 3 years aided by bubble equity from a flat bought previously and are now pouring money into their properties with extensions and loft conversions ("the house is making 10% a year vs 1% in the bank").

God knows how all this is actually going to end up, it really is one giant flustercuck. All I know is that if people don't have access to more money then they can't pay higher prices and most of the mechanisms that allow folks to borrow more money are now coming to an end. Sorry, not much advice here, but just wanted to get it off my chest and let you know you're not the only one who sees the situation as it is.

Totally with you on this one. The things that are showing up on the market are, as you said "good god wotaloadoshite".

There's absolutely nothing worth buying in my area. The "homes" and "flats" and "maisonettes" currently on the market might be good for pigs, definitely not for human beings. I mean, never mind the prices (HOLY MOTHER OF ****, 450k for a house, 420k for a flat with 150/month service charge + ground rent?!), but the places themselves are crammed up little shitholes "in need of modernisation" and "deceptively spacious" (i.e 30 sqm)

Plenty of money available if you're willing to mortgage to the max (you can easily get ~450k from the bank), but meeeh....

[ccc]

IF that definition is correct ("surely"), then can someone explain how exactly is it that the middle class is shrinking? (and it has been doing so for over a decade)

That used to be true before "the 1%" became a reality. At the time, my definition of middle class included the exact same people you're including in yours. Unfortunately, things have changed.

As far as I'm concerned, the middle class can afford a mortgage, a new car, a holiday and still has (decent) savings.

It's impossible for the 'middle' class to ever shrink if you base it on income.

The proportion will always stay exactly the same - 50% of the population - but their spending power can of course move up or down as a collective.

What we are seeing - mainly due to housing costs - is a downward movement.

[flb]

It's impossible for the 'middle' class to ever shrink if you base it on income.

The proportion will always stay exactly the same - 50% of the population - but their spending power can of course move up or down as a collective.

What we are seeing - mainly due to housing costs - is a downward movement.

Like I said, I don't base it on income, but rather on DISPOSABLE income (somewhat related, but not the same).

I don't see how someone that can barely afford to go to (real) restaurant once a week could possibly claim to be "middle class". The way I see it is that you're middle class if you manage to cover your necessities (and not by visiting the food bank or sharing flats/rooms with strangers/friends), have some fun and still got enough money to slowly pile up savings. Someone in the middle class can "afford" a recession, a crash and burn, loss of job, sickness etc without worrying about their roof or plate for a reasonable amount of time (say, 2 years). If losing your job and not finding another job for 6 months makes you homeless or hungry, you're not middle class. Not even close to that.

If someone has a "serious" job title but has to shop at Aldi and ends up with less than 500/month in savings, whatever it is that they do for a living, they're not middle class in my opinion. Because of that, I can't consider teachers "middle class". While some of them are doing fine (and better than fine, especially when you broaden the definition), most of them aren't in a great spot.

I have a lot of respect for them, their profession and in some cases, their achievements (after all, these are the people that are officially in charge of educating our children) but that can't and doesn't change simple math.

If you try to simply base it on income,then the whole point of defining class becomes moot. By that logic, if you eat from the food bank, sleep at a shelter, then sweep floors at a fancy restaurant, you're middle class, as opposed to another person like you that eats from the same food bank and sleeps in the same shelter, but sweeps floors at the barber's shop. He's making 100 less so he's "lower class". At sunset you'll both queue for a bowl of free soup, but while you're rubbing elbows there trying to make sure you get one, you're middle class and he's lower class, as you have an irrelevant amount of money in your pocket (100).

I find that definition a bit absurd.

[RentingForever]

Class in the UK is more about culture and where you came from than how much money you have/earn. Plenty of well-off people would call themselves 'working class'; and the skint aristocrat pops up throughout literature but would still be considered "upper class".

What you're really talking about flb is "median class" - a mathematical definition.

If someone here claims to be middle class, they don't necessarily mean that they're in the middle of the wealth distribution. Confusing to outsiders, but there you are.

Edited May 14, 2016 by RentingForever

[Gurgle]

Not sure where you're from flb, but your comments about the quality and size of British property are spot on. Having lived abroad for many years and travelled extensively I have a very different view on life in the UK from what I had 15 years ago.

The quality of British property is incredibly poor in general but most people don't realise this because they don't see past their own nose.

The same is true about the NHS which is a terrible service compared to most countries health systems. Again the general public are brain washed into believing it's normal. Britain is still living on its reputation from when it truly was great. Sadly those days are long over due to bad management and decision making by successive governments, the labour government of 1997-2010 being by far the most damaging.

I love my country by the way, but I can see its faults.

[Gurgle]

On the topic of middle class, there was a time when the definition of middle class was that you could live off an independent income without taking salaried employment.

That rules out must people today who view themselves as middle class today.

But I thought we lived in a classless society these days

[flb]

Class in the UK is more about culture and where you came from than how much money you have/earn. Plenty of well-off people would call themselves 'working class'; and the skint aristocrat pops up throughout literature but would still be considered "upper class".

What you're really talking about flb is "median class" - a mathematical definition.

If someone here claims to be middle class, they don't necessarily mean that they're in the middle of the wealth distribution. Confusing to outsiders, but there you are.

I understand. I wasn't aware of the fact that people here still gave a damn about origins or that they might split people into aristocrats and commoners. Just between the two of us, the best part of history is that it teaches you that aristocrats eventually end up roughly one head shorter...but that's just my opinion. I find it strange that in 2016 people would still split countries into "commoners" and "nobles", but ...

Not sure where you're from flb, but your comments about the quality and size of British property are spot on. Having lived abroad for many years and travelled extensively I have a very different view on life in the UK from what I had 15 years ago.

The quality of British property is incredibly poor in general but most people don't realise this because they don't see past their own nose.

The same is true about the NHS which is a terrible service compared to most countries health systems. Again the general public are brain washed into believing it's normal. Britain is still living on its reputation from when it truly was great. Sadly those days are long over due to bad management and decision making by successive governments, the labour government of 1997-2010 being by far the most damaging.

I love my country by the way, but I can see its faults.

<- EU (Eastern Europe, too)

I don't think the random Brit even understands how bad things are and I don't think they'll be able to see as long as they limit themselves to living in one country and not exploring/adventuring outside of their comfort zone...other than the occasional holiday.

Completely agree on the NHS part too. It's mind-boggling to see people going "SAVE NHS". Save? I have seen it and the best thing that could happen to it would be to get razed off the face of the Earth, it's embarrassing that such a monster still exists in this day and age.They're not hospitals, they're cruel, careless extermination camps. But if you've never walked into a hospital in Austria , Germany, Switzerland, Norway or even Holland, I guess you think this is normal...good even.

Same thing goes for the houses and services. As an immigrant, I heard "an Englishman's home is his castle" long before coming here. I was a kid and I thought that meant that you guys live in castles. Little did I know that in fact, the worst jailcell on the face of the Earth is a castle to you simply because you'll never afford something better and are grown to believe that's "good". It's beyond sad.

As for the services...well, you know, I don't want to sound overly critical. It's a decent country overall and definitely much better than the country I was born in from many points of view...but the stuff I've mentioned above reeks of the 16th century. It's hard to believe you haven't beheaded your leadership by now and I really can't understand how they're still alive. I can only assume that all the Cromwells are dead and not even immigrants want the job. ZHC probably.

I too have bought the flat I own (in my country) as a starter home - 1 bed, I can't remember whether it's 52 or 62 sqm, I think it's the former, so definitely not a castle either...but its price is ~64k and it's in the centre of the capital...I'm guessing the equivalent here would be over 1M...and probably -10 or -20 sqm in size.

I can't say that I love this country. I love my life in this country, but what this country is doing to its own people (regardless of origin or citizenship) is beyond shocking. I'm not going to get into politics, it's not the right forum for that, but yeah...property and NHS...slowly killing people off...food banks....The best an average human being can hope for in here is a mediocre existence and they'd need upwards of 100k/year as a family even for that. Flying here from Austria is travelling back in time 3-4 centuries. Most Brits I know are offended when I mention property or the NHS, I'm amazed to see one that understands. I'm guessing you have lived abroad?

[Gurgle]

Yes I currently live in Eastern Europe (or Central Europe depending on your definition). Been there since 2007. One of the reasons I moved is because we couldn't afford to buy a house in the uk big enough for our family. We had a 3 bed house with tiny rooms, one of which wasn't even big enough for a full sized single bed. We moved to an apartment which is also 3 bedrooms but is 150m2. My parents 4 bed house in the uk is 90m2. "But ... But ... But it's got 4 bedrooms". The only country in the world where house size is judged by number of bedrooms, not total floor space.

Anyhow, we would like to move back but without a major correction it isn't going to happen. I felt that prices were ridiculous in 2007. Now? A complete joke.

[flb]

Yes I currently live in Eastern Europe (or Central Europe depending on your definition). Been there since 2007. One of the reasons I moved is because we couldn't afford to buy a house in the uk big enough for our family. We had a 3 bed house with tiny rooms, one of which wasn't even big enough for a full sized single bed. We moved to an apartment which is also 3 bedrooms but is 150m2. My parents 4 bed house in the uk is 90m2. "But ... But ... But it's got 4 bedrooms". The only country in the world where house size is judged by number of bedrooms, not total floor space.

Anyhow, we would like to move back but without a major correction it isn't going to happen. I felt that prices were ridiculous in 2007. Now? A complete joke.

Ahahaha, you should see how things are now - I was viewing a house last year, advertised as "3 bedrooms". One "normal" (by the UK definition) bedroom (3mx3m). THE OTHER bedroom had been split into "two" bedrooms using an improvised "wall". So the "third" bedroom was actually something like 1.50 * 2 m. Annoyed at the whole bloody thing (there had been no floorplan posted online, so I couldn't see it from the start), I asked the estate agent HOW THE F*** IS THAT A BEDROOM? The guy looked surprised.

"well you can fit a single bed in there...right?"

I was like yeah, I can also fit your mom in there if you pass the butter. He just gave me a blank stare. I guess Brits have a different sense of humor

That's my main issue with the houses in the UK - not prices, but what you get for the money. Crammed up shitholes, some of built in the 50s and split 2-4 times since.

[FTB_southeast]

Class in the UK is more about culture and where you came from than how much money you have/earn. Plenty of well-off people would call themselves 'working class'; and the skint aristocrat pops up throughout literature but would still be considered "upper class".

What you're really talking about flb is "median class" - a mathematical definition.

If someone here claims to be middle class, they don't necessarily mean that they're in the middle of the wealth distribution. Confusing to outsiders, but there you are.

Agree with this. Middle class has always been about profession, simply in the older days jobs such as police/teachers could get you a nice property. There is now no hope the damage has been done

And £500 a month in net savings is pretty good for most people!!

[pricesmad]

They said on the tv the other day it is now defined by how much you earn, it was something along the lines of if you earn over 40k and own your own house then you are middle class.

A lot of the middle class jobs have been taken over by software, middle management that kind of thing.

I suppose it makes sense, if you came from middle class family and area but now have a poorly paid job and live in a house share then effectively you are living what was once considered a working class existence.

Although you may still have a middle class attitude it doesn't really stand up because you're poor.

[Deft]

If you had piano lessons, you are middle class.

[the_duke_of_hazzard]

Haven't read the whole thread, but the answer's simple: rent and save.

I live in 'prime' SE London and pay relatively little. PM me if you want advice.

[ZeroSumGame]

Hi guys

....... I am 30yrs old and left the Midlands 5 years back for career opportunities and only in the last 12-18 months I have been in a position to buy a place due to working hard to build my salary and save for a deposit .......................

I......................

I have a budget of 330-350k max for a 2 bed. Earning 60k + bonus+ other benefits. Say £80K for argument's sake

If I had stayed in the Midlands I would have a nice house by now, I just left as I was miserable in my job with no prospects, whereas here I am miserable due to quality of living. And you're miserable in London

You say you are in banking? Then move back to the Midlands where the jobs are being relocated to from London. Or buy in the Midlands and rent in London. Two hour train ride home at the week-end. Why the confusion?

[ZeroSumGame]

Deleted.

Edited May 17, 2016 by ZeroSumGame

[FTB_southeast]

You say you are in banking? Then move back to the Midlands where the jobs are being relocated to from London. Or buy in the Midlands and rent in London. Two hour train ride home at the week-end. Why the confusion?

not much of a life travelling up every weekend and wasting large sums on rent down here? Plus train costs on a Friday night are extortionate. I did think about buying up north as an investment but glad I didn't as I would be hit with this new tax.

I have noticed the market cooling down the last few weeks so am hopeful of getting something in the coming months.

I have been saving for 8/9 years now and 30 years old. Prices have gone up and its time to make the decision before they shoot any higher.

[FTB_southeast]

This sums up everything that is wrong with the current situation with UK housing; you're earning a salary almost double the average for London with bonuses on top, yet the living conditions you have stated lodger etc are what I would associate with minimum wage employment. Are you expecting to double your salary soon to trade up to a proper house and get rid of the lodger when perhaps a partner or family come along? Do you really feel all your hard work and sacrifices to get where you are worth that lifestyle? I couldn't do it when I know what the previous generations had. Just cant accept it and maybe that's my downfall. I am in a similar position in the SE and very happy in my job but would never commit to putting my family in a tiny flat or crappy terraced house that's falling to bits. If things don't change in the next few years I'll be forced to move away for good. Probably 2 years max.

Good luck to you if you buy now.

Nope certainly salary wont increase in the foreseeable maybe 5% per year. Yep once I have a partner who can pay 50% I wont need a lodger, the main problem is buying solo if I was married buying even a house on a joint income would be a doodle. But it is what it is.

I cant imagine buying a house ever in London, in 5-10 yrs god knows what prices will be like and aged 40+ I wouldn't want to take on such a big mortgage. Hopefully live, work and buy a villa in Dubai or somewhere!

[iamnumerate]

Nope certainly salary wont increase in the foreseeable maybe 5% per year. Yep once I have a partner who can pay 50% I wont need a lodger, the main problem is buying solo if I was married buying even a house on a joint income would be a doodle. But it is what it is.

I cant imagine buying a house ever in London, in 5-10 yrs god knows what prices will be like and aged 40+ I wouldn't want to take on such a big mortgage. Hopefully live, work and buy a villa in Dubai or somewhere!

As someone who is married I would check before you get a partner that they are going to work.

[iamnumerate]

This sums up everything that is wrong with the current situation with UK housing; you're earning a salary almost double the average for London with bonuses on top, yet the living conditions you have stated lodger etc are what I would associate with minimum wage employment. Are you expecting to double your salary soon to trade up to a proper house and get rid of the lodger when perhaps a partner or family come along? Do you really feel all your hard work and sacrifices to get where you are worth that lifestyle? I couldn't do it when I know what the previous generations had. Just cant accept it and maybe that's my downfall. I am in a similar position in the SE and very happy in my job but would never commit to putting my family in a tiny flat or crappy terraced house that's falling to bits. If things don't change in the next few years I'll be forced to move away for good. Probably 2 years max.

Good luck to you if you buy now.

I agree

[Errol]

Just pointing this out - but 60k isn't really a lot or enough for life in London these days.