1000 Norwich Union Jobs For India

[OnlyMe]

Gordon is doing everything he can to keep costs high, companies are reacting, maybe that is the plan, maybe Gordon has more "interest" in economies abroad thriving than the UK.

http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/News/story....3A43%3A53%3A790

1000 Norwich Union jobs for India

CHRIS STARKIE, EDP BUSINESS EDITOR

05 December 2005 08:35

Norwich Union is to open a fifth offshore operating centre as part of a drive to move thousands more jobs overseas, the EDP can reveal.

The move, continuing the rapid growth of NU's offshore operations, will mean by 2007 the insurance group will for the first time employ more people in India than in its home city of Norwich.

Edited December 5, 2005 by OnlyMe

[The Masked Tulip]

Anyone who has worked in UK IT in the past 5 years will tell you that New Liebour seems intent on shipping as many jobs from the UK to India as possible.

In fact, several Cabinet Ministers went to India in order to advise Indian businessmen on how to get UK work outsourced to India - I kid you not. Of course, none of this was reported in the mainstream media but sites like Computer Weekly, ITContractor, AccountingWeb and others reported it.

Scandalous!

[OnlyMe]

Compete or die, umm £3.50 an hour (is it £'s or Euro?!!). Basically a company sctatches the majority of its workforce and replaces it with below subsistence pay workforce. Scary if they get away with it.

http://www.labournet.net/world/0512/waterford1.html

Irish Ferries have resorted to tactics from the 1913 Dublin Lock-Out in order to force their workers to take redundancy to facilitate the employment of cheap labour at 3.50 an hour. If Irish Ferries are allowed to get away with this it will be a green light for employers across the country to sack their workers in favour of cheaper, non-union labour. Irish Ferries, if successful with their bully-boy tactics, will serve as a precedent for every unscrupulous employer to force down wages in a race to the bottom.

[Mushroom]

As TB would say "That's our globalised world".

Just a thought, as the economies of India, China, etc. grow, presumably their populations will require the benefits of the insurance industry. Nice to a have an infrastructure ready to take advantage.

[OnlyMe]

TMT,

Yes I know - old excerpt from news story. Basically shaft 100,00's of people and then increase tax to re-employ people in the public sector. Hatstand economics.

Job transfer 'helps economy' - Hain

Hain could face a backlash following his comments

Welsh secretary Peter Hain has said that companies which transfer call centre jobs to Asia are helping the British economy.

[Justice]

we need paying more then they get in India just to meet the tax Blair charges us and what do we get in return for our tax ! NOTHING

boytcott the NU i say

[Nomadd]

Compete or die, umm £3.50 an hour (is it £'s or Euro?!!).

Yes, but just think of the large detached house in the UK that you could buy with that!

Sometimes the bulls just don't get it...

Nomadd

[Guest magnoliawalls]

Gordon is doing everything he can to keep costs high, companies are reacting, maybe that is the plan, maybe Gordon has more "interest" in economies abroad thriving than the UK.

Maybe he is a genuine idealist with his main concern the welfare of the least well off - of course there are an awful lot of poverty stricken people in India, China, Cambodia, Africa...

[OnlyMe]

Maybe he is a genuine idealist with his main concern the welfare of the least well off - of course there are an awful lot of poverty stricken people in India, China, Cambodia, Africa...

Aye, certainly made multi-multi millionaires out of the heads of the outsourcing companies.

There certainly is a lot of money and influence up for grabs too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/uk_politics/1788802.stm

Potentially far more damaging are the links between Labour and Enron's accountants Andersen (formerly part of Arthur Andersen).

Labour forged close links with the firm in opposition. Arthur Andersen carried out unpaid research work for the party and senior Labour figure Patricia Hewitt, now trade and industry secretary, worked for the company in the early 1990s.

When Labour came into power in 1997 it lifted a long-term ban on Arthur Andersen doing government work.

Labour claims it was merely following the recommendations of an independent report, which the outgoing Tory administration had not had time to act on.

The Tories claim that version of events is "misleading" and they have questioned Labour's close ties with Arthur Andersen, as it was then known.

Arthur Anderson has since split into two - its consulting arm becoming Accenture and its accounting business Andersen

....

Guess where the idea to lump £5bn + of extra taxation onto pensions is supposed to have come from so that direct taxation could be held off for a while?

Look at the mess that that has made of a pensions system once envied by our European partners.

Edited December 5, 2005 by OnlyMe

[Duplex]

If companies want to remain competitive they’ll have to use labour market arbitrage, once one competitor makes a move to a low cost(high profit) location others are forced to follow.

Outsourcing like this will impact incomes growth in the West for a couple of decades as the trend in costs in the Brics nations moves upwards.

The Financial Times reports that JP Morgan Chase is planning to hire 4,500 graduates in India, as its aims to move 30% of back office and support staff jobs at its investment banking division offshore by the end of 2007.

Up to 9,000 jobs in the JP Morgan Chase group are said likely to be offshored in the next 2 years

.

JP Morgan Chase

[OnlyMe]

http://business.scotsman.com/industry.cfm?id=2354522005

100,000 factory jobs 'will be lost this year'

JIM STANTON

DEPUTY BUSINESS EDITOR

ALMOST 100,000 more British manufacturing jobs are expected to be lost this year - despite the sector showing signs of recovery, according to the Engineering Employers' Federation.

In its latest quarterly bulletin, the EEF said the sector was on course to employ less that three million people for the first time.

[FrozenOut]

In relation to the above article, I would like to re-affirm my commitment to NEVER doing business with a company who does not support the UK job economy.

Much like when a person receives bad service (as I have from India) you will ALWAYS tell more people then when you receive good service. Whilst you and other companies like you continue to boost your profits by investing in countries outside the UK I will NEVER purchase a single service from you, and every day I will continue to spread the word. I look forward to the day it starts to finally cost you, forcing you to back track until then you’ll never see a penny of my money.

Think carefully about your business plans, people in the UK don’t want to see jobs going over seas it will never be too much trouble for me to change supplier.

(just sent to NU)

[Mushroom]

In relation to the above article, I would like to re-affirm my commitment to NEVER doing business with a company who does not support the UK job economy.

Much like when a person receives bad service (as I have from India) you will ALWAYS tell more people then when you receive good service. Whilst you and other companies like you continue to boost your profits by investing in countries outside the UK I will NEVER purchase a single service from you, and every day I will continue to spread the word. I look forward to the day it starts to finally cost you, forcing you to back track until then you’ll never see a penny of my money.

Think carefully about your business plans, people in the UK don’t want to see jobs going over seas it will never be too much trouble for me to change supplier.

(just sent to NU)

Some of your taxes do just this too.

Military uniforms from China was it and medical tests in India?

No doubt more examples with much Government and Local Authority purchasing.

No current political party, if in power would, imo, be any different.

[Levy process]

Anyone who has worked in UK IT in the past 5 years will tell you that New Liebour seems intent on shipping as many jobs from the UK to India as possible.

In fact, several Cabinet Ministers went to India in order to advise Indian businessmen on how to get UK work outsourced to India - I kid you not. Of course, none of this was reported in the mainstream media but sites like Computer Weekly, ITContractor, AccountingWeb and others reported it.

Scandalous!

What do you mean by "Anyone who has worked in UK IT..."? "IT" is in my experience used to cover an enormously wide range of jobs. I work in niche software development in software houses, and I can tell you that over the last 5 years I have seen absolutely no evidence of "shipping jobs to India". It's not even on the radar. Salaries are still rising, order books are growing, and the difficulty is finding enough appropriately skilled staff (e.g. developers, project managers etc). I also know a lot of people who work in specialist software within Investment banks, and again there is no downward pressure on wages at the moment, and no sign of it. Frankly, the idea of those sort of institutions (which account for a lot of high skill IT) getting ready to ship work out to India or whatever just doesn't look like a reality.

What there has been is a gradual shift to move abroad jobs in which a computer is used to process customer data, along with perhaps fielding telephone calls from and to customers. Those sort of jobs also fall under the near catch-all heading of "IT".

That's not to say that there are not other sorts of software and IT work being competed for from abroad. There is. But it just isn't true IMHO that it has got anywhere near the levels needed to produce real downward pressure on wages here, or to create significant job shortages.

On the other hand, I'd say that in general it is a good thing that developing countries are getting in on a high tech boom. It will alleviate povery there better than any aid programme. Also it is just the world returning to the historical norm, in which the far East was equally rich to the West; the current situation is the abberation.

There will always be the need for hands-on IT in this country. IMHO it will never all be outsourced. And if people want to prevent the outsourcing being a problem for jobs in the UK, the way to go is to keep at the cutting edge; keep the UK as a leader in the latest technologies, the latest ideas etc. Let the older stuff go abroad if it means that it costs less. That has been the way that every ecomomic activity has developed. There is no such thing as "IT". It covers a whole range of activities. The important thing is to keep the UK as one of the places where the latest high value part of IT is done, while letting the other parts go abroad. Trying to fight it by refusing to do business with companies that outsource abroad etc. is just doomed. It is just protectionism, and I doubt it will work any better than it has in the past.

[OnlyMe]

http://www.shropshirestar.com/show_article.php?aID=39981

Hospitals to axe nearly 300 jobs

Exclusive by DAVE MORRIS

Nearly 300 jobs, including those of doctors and nurses, are to be axed at Shropshire’s main hospital trust in a desperate attempt to help balance the books, it was revealed today.

[dogbox]

UK citizens love to tell you how much they saved on thier car insurance.

This downward pressure excerted by us consumers and championed by the muppets at 'Which' results in companies looking to reduce cost in order to offer lower premiums.

The Government are'nt the villains, it's all of us.

Only Me - who did you buy your car insurance from and why?

[OnlyMe]

UK citizens love to tell you how much they saved on thier car insurance.

This downward pressure excerted by us consumers and championed by the muppets at 'Which' results in companies looking to reduce cost in order to offer lower premiums.

The Government are'nt the villains, it's all of us.

Only Me - who did you buy your car insurance from and why?

Dogbox, read up about it - this has a lot to do with gov. policy - policy doesn't get made at the electiosn, it gets made by various pressure groups and throught he lobby system. Hvae a read around the subject of party donations, outsouricng comapnies, trade delegations etc etc if you really want to know more about it.

Where did I get my insurance? Via local broker from a small specialist insurer (believe they are solely based in the UK). Did price reflect my choice, too damn right it did, I found the necessary compeptitive quotes for them to match and did the legwork for the broker. Why did I do that? Well I know that should I have to make a claim I won't have to put up with all the bull you can get as an individual from these companies - especially when they work through a telephone facade. Probably more detail than you wanted, but still, probably worth mentioning.

Edited December 5, 2005 by OnlyMe

[BoredTrainBuilder]

For a country with an economy like the UK's, indeed for any country, protectionism is suicide.

Our very openness to trade sets us up nicely for the 21st century unlike some of our neighbours. Buying products and services from overseas if they are cheaper/better is excellent for the economies of both buying and selling countries and therefore the vast majority of citizens of those countries.

'Buy British' is discredited, it protects uncompetitive companies and gave us the Austin Allegro.

The government is not outsourcing jobs, companies (and their customers' desire for lower prices or better quality) are doing it.

[jackalope]

In relation to the above article, I would like to re-affirm my commitment to NEVER doing business with a company who does not support the UK job economy.

I will ALWAYS do business with whichever company provides me with the best value and service. People in Britain don't have God given rights to jobs which Indians will do cheaper. The challenge of globalisation is to move our economic activity higher up the value chain rather than pissing and moaning about jobs answering phones and changing backup tapes moving to Chennai.

[dogbox]

Dogbox, read up about it - this has a lot to do with gov. policy - policy doesn't get made at the electiosn, it gets made by various pressure groups and throught he lobby system. Hvae a read around the subject of party donations, outsouricng comapnies, trade delegations etc etc if you really want to know more about it.

The consumer is king and has the real influence.

People buy Dell because its great value. The value is achieved in large part through cheap labour manufacturing plants.

People kept buying cheaply produced Chineese bicycles. In the end Raleigh had to outsource to compete.

People stopped buying more expensive British made garments at places such as M & S, so M & S had no choice but to ditch the UK manufactured suppliers, which they tried to resist but the customer wouldnt play ball.

This country used to manufacture pianos but during the nineties people kept buying Chinese imports, so now almost no pianos made here.

I'm afraid there is nothing any of us can do about this 'natural process' of evolution.

Our future lies in film - making, games development, aircraft, cutting edge science, healthcare technology, marketing, regulation (!), organic / real food and drink, insurance for the world, the City, trend spotting and leading, music, exporting education brands, football, formula 1, eco - business, green energy etc.

[IPOD]

The challenge of globalisation is to move our economic activity higher up the value chain

What if there aren't enough jobs higher up the value chain? After all, a manufacturing company needs thousands of workers but only one CEO.

(By the way, I admire your rote recitation of standard economic and political dogma; do you read The Economist by any chance?)

[Levy process]

Our future lies in film - making, games development, aircraft, cutting edge science, healthcare technology, marketing, regulation (!), organic / real food and drink, insurance for the world, the City, trend spotting and leading, music, exporting education brands, football, formula 1, eco - business, green energy etc.

I think that is a pretty good summary.

[Cheston Pelvis]

The government is not outsourcing jobs, companies (and their customers' desire for lower prices or better quality) are doing it.

Labour may not be directly outsourcing UK jobs abroad but they are certainly creating a situation where outsourcing is increasingly the only way left for big companies, who, let's be honest, only really have their shareholders to answer to.

If the high cost of living in the UK wasn't enough of a squeeze on balance sheets then you also have a government hell-bent on wringing out as much money as possible through stealth taxes and charges - anything but raise the rate of income tax. Pension plans, eh? Yes, we'll have some of that... Legal & General, don't do that any more - oh, and pay up £500m in back taxes for doing it in the first place... all you banks out there with dormant accounts, we reckon you should pay it all to charity so we can reduce our charitable spend for the year... and so on and so on, etc, etc. Gordon Brown reminds me of Mayor Quimby in The Simpsons (the one where the movie makers come to Springfield), so much so that, after bleeding UK PLC dry through a mountain of ridiculous taxes and pernickety fines, I fully expect any big business ditching the UK to be charged a "leaving the UK" tax before they go.

Anyway, here’s a final thought while I finish my lunch... in reading the EDP article aren't you all soothed by the fact that there have been only a few redundancies when outsourcing all these jobs to India? Sounds great, eh? Well done, Aviva! Only it's not much of an achievement, really, particularly when one realises Norwich Union has quite a high turnover of staff. All one has to do is post any vacancies in the Chennai Herald instead of the EDP! Quite simple, really. Of course, I can't substantiate such a scurrilous theory with hard evidence, but I notice there aren't a huge number of Norwich Union jobs listed in Thursday's EDP - they all seem to be Norfolk County Council positions nowadays!

Kind regards,

Cheston.

[Guest magnoliawalls]

What if there aren't enough jobs higher up the value chain? After all, a manufacturing company needs thousands of workers but only one CEO.

(By the way, I admire your rote recitation of standard economic and political dogma; do you read The Economist by any chance?)

Another thing that irritates me is when people assume you can separate the "cutting edge" science, research and development from the manufacturing process. Being familiar with the site and actual processes - as opposed to those reported by image/regulation conscious management - facilitates practical innovation and design.

[jackalope]

What if there aren't enough jobs higher up the value chain? After all, a manufacturing company needs thousands of workers but only one CEO.

Then we'd better innovate and invent more jobs higher up the value chain. What option do we have? We cannot uninvent the technology that makes outsourcing feasible.

(By the way, I admire your rote recitation of standard economic and political dogma; do you read The Economist by any chance?)

No. Barely Legal and Performance Bikes form the bulk of the reading matter Chez Jackalope.