Smoking In Pubs

[thod]

Wouldn't a caffeine shot do the job, and without the visual cues for the nearest enemy sniper?

Similar but not the same.

Nicotine appears to enhance concentration[45] and memory due to the increase of acetylcholine. It also appears to enhance alertness due to the increases of acetylcholine and norepinephrine. Arousal is increased by the increase of norepinephrine. Pain is reduced by the increases of acetylcholine and beta-endorphin. Anxiety is reduced by the increase of beta-endorphin. Nicotine also extends the duration of positive effects of dopamine[46] and increases sensitivity in brain reward systems.[47]

Thus smokers are smarter, more alert, aroused but not anxious with it. That's why they do it. They don't want to return to the foggy world non-smokers live in. After a smoker stops they have to habituate to being dumb and unresponsive again.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

Thus smokers are smarter, more alert, aroused but not anxious with it. That's why they do it. They don't want to return to the foggy world non-smokers live in. After a smoker stops they have to habituate to being dumb and unresponsive again.

I believe the effect is psychological as well as pharmacological and it is difficult to be a smoker these days without being conscious of the strategies used to enforce conformity - bans, taxes, demonisation and more than a pinch of hypocrisy.

This will be the third time I've plugged electronic cigarettes on this thread but they do offer an interesting alternative for smokers. That is whatever concentration of nicotene you are comfortable with and no tars or known carcinogens. The pleasure e-cigarettes have brought me in confrontations with self-righteous coffee-drinking, car driving non-smokers has been worth the modest outlay ten times over. I've mentioned this in a previous thread but, in the case of certain kind of puritanical non-smoker, they don't give a damn if what you are puffing is effectively odourless and non-toxic. They just want to impose their joyless will on yours, regardless.

[Gone baby gone]

I believe the effect is psychological as well as pharmacological and it is difficult to be a smoker these days without being conscious of the strategies used to enforce conformity - bans, taxes, demonisation and more than a pinch of hypocrisy.

This will be the third time I've plugged electronic cigarettes on this thread but they do offer an interesting alternative for smokers. That is whatever concentration of nicotene you are comfortable with and no tars or known carcinogens. The pleasure e-cigarettes have brought me in confrontations with self-righteous coffee-drinking, car driving non-smokers has been worth the modest outlay ten times over. I've mentioned this in a previous thread but, in the case of certain kind of puritanical non-smoker, they don't give a damn if what you are puffing is effectively odourless and non-toxic. They just want to impose their joyless will on yours, regardless.

Hmmm, I might have to take up e-smoking... do they do e-pipes or e-cigars?

[Nuggets Mahoney]

Hmmm, I might have to take up e-smoking... do they do e-pipes or e-cigars?

One pipe smoker's journey through the world of e-cigs...

is quite informative as well

[Rare Bear]

Never mind, the ban's done wonders for the pub trade. Now that all those non-smokers have been flocking to them

Yes, there is so much more profit from the guy who comes in once a week for a white wine spritzer and a 3 bean salad than from the guy who drinks 6 pints a night and smokes a packet of fags in the process.

[Gone baby gone]

Yes, there is so much more profit from the guy who comes in once a week for a white wine spritzer and a 3 bean salad than from the guy who drinks 6 pints a night and smokes a packet of fags in the process.

Especially when you remember how much pubs used to sell fags for. If you think that someone could easily burn through a pack of those "vending size" tabs in a session, they must have been raking it in.

Tell you what though, it's funny how HPC is full of free marketards, but a government banning smoking in pubs is a favoured solution... where is the free market here? Surely if smoking in pubs was a problem for most people, the pubs that weren't entirely non-smoking would have suffered and had to capitulate. Or is the minority imposing it's will on the majority ok, as long as you are in that minority?

[Bruce Banner]

I don't go into pubs any more, they don't smell right and the white ceilings just look odd.

[The Eagle]

Tell you what though, it's funny how HPC is full of free marketards, but a government banning smoking in pubs is a favoured solution... where is the free market here?

This has nothing to do with free market, free markets don't really exist these days anyway, with all the overregulations everywhere.

That said, freedom without common sense, fair play and social responsibility doesn't work.

That's why some restrictions are necessary to protect non-smokers from a minority of smokers who don't care if their acts harm others.

As a non-smoker I'm very glad for the smoking ban, I have no problem with smokers smoking themselves to death, as long as they don't do it in my face (i.e. in public places).

[juvenal]

I don't go into pubs any more, they don't smell right and the white ceilings just look odd.

And with no butts in the urinals, there's nowt to aim at...

[libspero]

I guess what smokers need is a private, non-"public" place where they can get together freely, smoke a few fags, drink a few whiskys/beers and relax in a comfortable environment together without upsetting any members of the public or non-smokers.

I'm not sure what you would call such an establishment, but I guess it would be much the same as a pub was during the times of prohibition.

[Byron]

I'm not sure what you would call such an establishment, but I guess it would be much the same as a pub was during the times of prohibition.

A 'Smokeeasy'?

[Gone baby gone]

This has nothing to do with free market, free markets don't really exist these days anyway, with all the overregulations everywhere.

That said, freedom without common sense, fair play and social responsibility doesn't work.

That's why some restrictions are necessary to protect non-smokers from a minority of smokers who don't care if their acts harm others.

As a non-smoker I'm very glad for the smoking ban, I have no problem with smokers smoking themselves to death, as long as they don't do it in my face (i.e. in public places).

This has everything to do with the free market.

Pubs could offer non-smoking before the ban, either partially or fully (as JD Wetherspoon did). So punters had a choice. If there was a massive hatred of smoke and smoking surely the pubs that allowed smoking would have gone bust? If you found it unacceptably dangerous, you could choose not to patronise pubs where smoking took place, or even choose to stay at home.

It's nobodys divine right to go to a pub; after all, the management reserve the right to refuse. Nobody is forced to visit them, or work in them. Freedom of choice...

Then after about 30 years worth of campaigning from the anti-smoking lobby, the government offered up a ban. Oh the ban wouldn't have any effect on the trade, all those people who had been unable to enter a nasty smoky pub would be piling into drinking establishments up and down the UK to take the place of any missing smokers.

Turns out it was a load of nonsense and since the ban came into effect the number of people using pubs has been declining. Pubs are closing up and down the country so now nobody, smoker or not, can enjoy a drink in them. Those worst hit appear to the be the small community pubs that relied on regulars.

The fantasy:

http://collections.europarchive.org/tna/20110202220654/http://www.smokefreeengland.co.uk/thefacts/seven-million-more-will-visit-the-pub-after-the-smoking-ban--says-new-research.html

The reality:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/jul/06/fooddrinks.retail

http://takingliberties.squarespace.com/taking-liberties/2010/9/6/smoking-ban-and-pub-closures.html

Textbook case of "big government" and you're high fiving each other on the sidelines like a bunch of sixth formers...

That said, freedom without common sense, fair play and social responsibility doesn't work.

And who is going to enforce the "common sense, fair play and social responsibility" - yes, it's your old friend the government.

I want a free market, until it's not best for me, then I don't want one.

Double think? Not arf'

[Harry Monk]

As a non-smoker I'm very glad for the smoking ban, I have no problem with smokers smoking themselves to death, as long as they don't do it in my face (i.e. in public places).

Personally, I couldn't see a problem with a pub landlord being able to declare his pub to be either a smoking or a non-smoking establishment, and clearly marking which it was at the entrance, giving people the choice of frequenting it or taking their custom elsewhere.

I have had periods of being a smoker and periods of being a non-smoker but even when I was the latter, what people did in a building I never went into would not have been something I considered to be my business.

[Bruce Banner]

....what people did in a building I never went into would not have been something I considered to be my business.

But you are not a busybody

[standoff]

I guess what smokers need is a private, non-"public" place where they can get together freely, smoke a few fags, drink a few whiskys/beers and relax in a comfortable environment together without upsetting any members of the public or non-smokers.

I'm not sure what you would call such an establishment, but I guess it would be much the same as a pub was during the times of prohibition.

[The Ayatollah Buggeri]

I guess what smokers need is a private, non-"public" place where they can get together freely, smoke a few fags, drink a few whiskys/beers and relax in a comfortable environment together without upsetting any members of the public or non-smokers.

I'm not sure what you would call such an establishment, but I guess it would be much the same as a pub was during the times of prohibition.

A smokeeasy?

[Byron]

Fussing about smoking is fruitless. MP's were misled and voted for the ban and now will not listen to evidence of the damage done to the pub trade, because it makes them look gullible fools (What's new?)

Anyway, having won that particular war, the New Age Puritans are looking for something else. The Calfornian branch reportedly looked at perfumes, aftershaves etc. but found no mileage in that. Unfortunately for the US Puritans, any attack on alcohol will fail because of their experiences with prohibition.

But here, in the UK, we are ripe for an all out attack on alcohol.

Despite the alleged dangers of second hand smoke, drinkers were probably in far more danger from the alcohol they consumed in pubs rather than the smoke.

Still, pubs will probably cease to exist within the next 20 years.

Remember, the remnants of presbyterianism linger on and keep raising to the fore.

Follow Gordon Brown's example, laughing, even smiling is to invite the Devil.

If you can enjoy it, they can ban it.

[rw42]

Personally, I couldn't see a problem with a pub landlord being able to declare his pub to be either a smoking or a non-smoking establishment, and clearly marking which it was at the entrance, giving people the choice of frequenting it or taking their custom elsewhere.

I have had periods of being a smoker and periods of being a non-smoker but even when I was the latter, what people did in a building I never went into would not have been something I considered to be my business.

Don't think that works though. People travel in herds - i went to the local with my friends. It doesn't work if i want to go to the nonsmoking pub to avoid the joy of the stinky morning after, and he wants to have half a packet while he's out.

Either you sort out alternate nights/weeks in smoking/nonsmoking pubs, model the UK as a bunch of individuals who all make a personal choice on which pub to go to with no bearing on if their friends will be there, or you make stuff up.

Most of the time i spent in pubs, we went where we thought there would be young ladies. Smoking or not was a secondary consideration - i'm happier in a non-smoking environment but that really wasn't the decider. From memory maybe 1 in 5 of my friends smoked regularly, and another one whenever he was pished. I never found a pub that had a seperate smokers/nonsmokers area that actually worked - if the pub allowed smoking anywhere in it, the smell would work its way through.

[libspero]

A smokeeasy?

They already had a term for it since 2005. Excellent.. what we need is some of those

[libspero]

Don't think that works though. People travel in herds - i went to the local with my friends. It doesn't work if i want to go to the nonsmoking pub to avoid the joy of the stinky morning after, and he wants to have half a packet while he's out.

Either you sort out alternate nights/weeks in smoking/nonsmoking pubs, model the UK as a bunch of individuals who all make a personal choice on which pub to go to with no bearing on if their friends will be there, or you make stuff up.

Most of the time i spent in pubs, we went where we thought there would be young ladies. Smoking or not was a secondary consideration - i'm happier in a non-smoking environment but that really wasn't the decider. From memory maybe 1 in 5 of my friends smoked regularly, and another one whenever he was pished. I never found a pub that had a seperate smokers/nonsmokers area that actually worked - if the pub allowed smoking anywhere in it, the smell would work its way through.

How do you interact with these people when you aren't in a public place? For example, when you are at your friends house and they are smoking etc?

Would it work if you banned non-smokers from smoking venues?

[Byron]

How do you interact with these people when you aren't in a public place? For example, when you are at your friends house and they are smoking etc?

Would it work if you banned non-smokers from smoking venues?

Generally, I find that people smell worse than smoke.

[Self Employed Youth]

A pub near me opened as a smoking research centre but got threatened with closure, now has a large open area with heaters and tables. But there is an offy nearby and a park. On a nice day you might aswell drink out in the open and lie on the grass, sit by the stream/river what not! - Go to a festival/mini festival even.

I still go to the pub. Something to eat and leave, unless you meet somebody interesting to chat to. Swap numbers and arrange non pub drinking.

I probably go 2-4 times a month now. Down from 7 days a week before the smoking ban.

The only thing I can imagine you will do is open up, ignore the ban and pay the fines. But they'll just force you bust.

[porca misèria]

I probably go 2-4 times a month now. Down from 7 days a week before the smoking ban.

7 days a week? That implies serious money, and is most unlikely to be compatible with earning it! Was it mum&dad's money or taxpayer money you were burning?

[Self Employed Youth]

7 days a week? That implies serious money, and is most unlikely to be compatible with earning it! Was it mum&dad's money or taxpayer money you were burning?

Back then a pint were £1.50, I earned £5.50 an hour cleaning a gym at the weekend, 20 hours - £100 (66.6 pints a week - or 9.5 pints a day). Lived at home rent free, college in the week, EMA from college of £13/week paid my bus fare.

Back then it was very easy to do and have money left over. Since then prices have rose and wages have froze.

Ok, now I have the flat to run. But if I was working full time back then and had the flat, I'd have had £200+ a week wages, rent would have been £30, shoping £30, council tax a tenner, transport £12, I'd have still had £100+ disposable.

Now its £200 wages still, beer £3 a pint, rent is £65 going up to 71, shopping is getting on for 50, council tax 15, transport going on for 20-25. disposable nil.

[Unexpected]

Generally, I find that people smell worse than smoke.

Indeed, once the concoction has mixed with their innards for a while it can come back up as a particularly vile stench. The good thing about smoking in pubs though is that the alchohol can help to neutralize this.