Injin Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/nov/27/public-sector-strike-army-borders?commentpage=2#start-of-comments The army are on standby to keep Britain's borders secure and handle passport queues during Wednesday's strikes over public service pensions, Francis Maude has confirmed.The Cabinet Office minister also told unions that they have until the end of the year to accept the government's current offer or it will be taken off the table – the first time that ministers have set a deadline for talks to be concluded. "We have said there needs to be agreement on the main elements by the end of this year, and if there isn't, we absolutely reserve the right to take those elements off the table," Maude told Sky News. Details of the military's duties were being discussed by the UK Borders Agency, but Maude said he expected soldiers to man the passport queues, admitting it would not be a great image for Britain to project. Details and contingency arrangements for the strikes will be discussed on Monday at a special session of the government's emergency committee (Cobra). The strikes have been called in protest at government moves to increase pension contributions by public sector workers. Ministers acknowledge that two thirds of schools will close and non-emergency operations in the NHS will be disrupted. It is thought that in England around 60,000 non-urgent operations, outpatient appointments, tests and followup appointments will be postponed. Maude accused the unions of being disingenuous by claiming serious negotiations over the public sector deal had stopped, arguing that further talks were due to take place on Tuesday. A statement from the Cabinet Office said: "It is simply not true to suggest this big offer, which is fair and affordable to other taxpayers, has not been put to union leaders. This offer is as good as it gets – a deal that most people in the private sector can only dream of being offered. "We have been clear there is flexibility in this offer within the cost ceiling. That is why each scheme and their unions are discussing the design so that it meets their particular needs of their workforce. By going on strike now the unions have simply jumped the gun." more public sector entitlement meeting bankster theft at the link.... Yes, it's that bad folks. The government are going "all in" on the first bit of trouble in the hope of nipping things in the bud. Not going to work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 TBH I think the army are going to struggle with this one. Sitting on your ass for hours at a time, relentless sullen looks and causing hour long queues. It's a specialist job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie2011 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 The BNP have said they will help out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 TBH I think the army are going to struggle with this one. Sitting on your ass for hours at a time, relentless sullen looks and causing hour long queues. It's a specialist job. You're making it sound easy compared to risking their lives in their normal Army duties.... oh wait.... you're right............... it is..... If you still need some aren't there a few people unemployed?..... My message is strike and don't come back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 The BNP have said they will help out. That would make great satire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 That would make great satire it would solve the immigration issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl1 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 You're making it sound easy compared to risking their lives in their normal Army duties.... oh wait.... you're right............... it is..... If you still need some aren't there a few people unemployed?..... My message is strike and don't come back It's odd isn't it? Millions unemployed. How difficult can it be to check a few passports? If the Govt. were clever they could play this like The Police Strike where they weeded out all the militants and then sacked them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 It's odd isn't it? Millions unemployed. How difficult can it be to check a few passports? I doubt the job is the difficult part, the problem with replacing them is likely to be that they have to be background checked to work in the airport and that takes months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MongerOfDoom Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I doubt the job is the difficult part, the problem with replacing them is likely to be that they have to be background checked to work in the airport and that takes months. We already trust them with guns and live ammo. Just what would be the point of additional checks? The only difficulty with troops is that they will often be barely literate, and might be unable to deal with simple clerical tasks that require typing on a keyboard (which border checks often do). But it's still fine to use them for checking people arriving from the Schengen zone since that basically does not need doing (or indeed doing well). It's not like the continent came to massive grief when they stopped bothering. The bottom line is that the willingness to use the army this way will strongly discourage low-skilled workers from striking. "Look, here is someone who will obey orders, work for less, and is used to not suing when shot at, never mind when suffering from a slightly bad back". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 We already trust them with guns and live ammo. Just what would be the point of additional checks? That was rather my point. You can send the army in because they've already been checked, you can't just pick a few hundred people from the local job centre or employment agency to take over the work, because they'd spend months waiting for their checks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 That was rather my point. You can send the army in because they've already been checked, you can't just pick a few hundred people from the local job centre or employment agency to take over the work, because they'd spend months waiting for their checks. There will be more than enough soldiers for the job, don't forget 3 out of ten kiosks are normally open at best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 There will be more than enough soldiers for the job, don't forget 3 out of ten kiosks are normally open at best Even if they could manage it easily and at maximum capacity, they wouldn't. They'll make it as awkward as possible to rubbish the strikers. Back to the 70's, but ofc lots of people don't know the game, not having been born and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 We already trust them with guns and live ammo. Just what would be the point of additional checks? The only difficulty with troops is that they will often be barely literate, and might be unable to deal with simple clerical tasks that require typing on a keyboard (which border checks often do). But it's still fine to use them for checking people arriving from the Schengen zone since that basically does not need doing (or indeed doing well). It's not like the continent came to massive grief when they stopped bothering. The bottom line is that the willingness to use the army this way will strongly discourage low-skilled workers from striking. "Look, here is someone who will obey orders, work for less, and is used to not suing when shot at, never mind when suffering from a slightly bad back". Brilliant although I think you are underestimating the intelligence of the average soldier, sure they can party but knowing where they are giving co-ordinates for laser guided bombs requires a certain element of accuracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 We already trust them with guns and live ammo. Just what would be the point of additional checks? The only difficulty with troops is that they will often be barely literate, and might be unable to deal with simple clerical tasks that require typing on a keyboard (which border checks often do). But it's still fine to use them for checking people arriving from the Schengen zone since that basically does not need doing (or indeed doing well). It's not like the continent came to massive grief when they stopped bothering. The bottom line is that the willingness to use the army this way will strongly discourage low-skilled workers from striking. "Look, here is someone who will obey orders, work for less, and is used to not suing when shot at, never mind when suffering from a slightly bad back". Err I travel a fair bit and all a UK customs officer has ever done with my passport is shine a UV light on it and put it through a card reader (ocassionally). Very occassionally they ask me the odd question, which is normally difficult for me to remember, usually where have you come from. I think this is just part of their Jedi mind control skills to test whether they can pick up whether people are lying, or maybe so they can check which flights are filtering through so they can get ready for the passengers from some dodgy place. Last time I came through Gatwick they had an automated reader for people who have certain passports, so the time when a lot of the customs officers will be replaced is not far off. You mention the Shengen countries, but these are the ones that probably pose the most difficulty as these people are allowed to come in on ID cards etc, whcih means the troops would have a harder time checking them out than a simple passport. Still, the troops could probably hand a good proportion, filtering off the ones with dodgy/unusual ID to a special group of officers to have additional checks. Organised properly it's not going to be the end of the world. Yes wait times may increase, but the ones who will suffer the most will probably be non UK citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Even if they could manage it easily and at maximum capacity, they wouldn't. They'll make it as awkward as possible to rubbish the strikers. Back to the 70's, but ofc lots of people don't know the game, not having been born and so on. what a lot of office workers hate to realise is that most desk bound low importance jobs are a piece of cake, compulsory legislation and training just over blows their importance No such thing as indespensible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash4781 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I presume they'll be in full army fatigues? Off to the interrogation room with this one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MongerOfDoom Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Brilliant although I think you are underestimating the intelligence of the average soldier, sure they can party but knowing where they are giving co-ordinates for laser guided bombs requires a certain element of accuracy Not every soldier can be a JTAC. But even those that do are not the sharpest tools in the box, to the extent of JDAMing themselves on occasions (though admittedly the quote refers to some US grunt). An investigation of the incident determined that the U.S. Air Force Tactical Control Party (TACP) attached to the Special Forces team had changed the battery in the GPS receiver at some point during the battle, thereby causing the device to return to "default" and "display its own coordinates." Not realizing that this had occurred, the TACP relayed his own coordinates to the delivery aircraft.[11][12] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Not every soldier can be a JTAC. But even those that do are not the sharpest tools in the box, to the extent of JDAMing themselves on occasions (though admittedly the quote refers to some US grunt). The US specialise in that by all accounts, usually themselves which is pure Darwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I can just see Heathrow now. 'Crowd, ................Atten...shun' 'Crowd....... Stand at....wait for it, ....wait for it................... Ease! As you were....As you were 'Crowd...............Stand Easy.' Some of you might break your Mother's hearts but you won't break mine. Now. 'Properly at ease now , let me hear those boots crash on the floor, Crowd.............Atten...shun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timak Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Top rated comment on the Guardian site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 TBH I think the army are going to struggle with this one. Sitting on your ass for hours at a time, relentless sullen looks and causing hour long queues. It's a specialist job. Ha. In Poland this task is normally done by the Army. Looking at a passport picture and occasionally scanning it is less skillful than a supermarket checkout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammo Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 They may well do a better job than the current staff. They'll certainly be good at enforcement! The sniper posts and drones should be a good adition to Sangatte, maybe we will never look back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) Ha. In Poland this task is normally done by the Army. Looking at a passport picture and occasionally scanning it is less skillful than a supermarket checkout I wonder if these passport controllers are beginning to get the feeling they might be best shutting up, not striking and keep getting paid for a job that can easily be done by others with minimal disruption Edited November 27, 2011 by robo1968 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caribbean Beauty Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Word from my old UKBA posse - hundreds of Police Officers are amongst those receiving training (mainly BTP) plus various motley civil servants from some bizarre branches of government which have never delved into law enforcement - eg a government Vet! I can see it now - a Vet holds up someone with a dodgy looking passport and moving bulge in his pants, he makes a dash for it and is dropped by a rugby tackle from a Paratrooper in full camo gear, then cuffed by the BTP officers on duty, before the "bulge*" is released and treated by the Vet! *the now squashed illegal exotic snake being smuggled in It all makes perfect sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timebandit Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Needs an update but worth another dig out (sound on) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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