Pubs Closing?

[@contradevian]

The Inland Revenue is offering a free tax workshop at a Starbucks. As pubs often offer coffee and tea and have empty function rooms, it might be worth looking at this opportunity. Coffee shops seem to be busy, pubs seem empty but having a bunch of scruffs outside gasping on their nicotine sticks is not a good image.

[Bradbury Robinson]

I have nothing to do with the pub trade, apart from giving them some money now and again, but find the business of pubs quite interesting.

I was talking to a friend about it on Friday, in the pub, and how the road we drink in has eight actual pubs and six bars. This is in a suburban shopping road about 300m long, not a town centre or that. I can understand that in the boom times, when people had a bit of spare cash, that this number was sustainable but now everybody is having to tighten their belt surely something has to give. What will give will be the pubs that have made no effort what so ever to cater for their customers, there are a couple who seem to have the same décor and furniture that they had from the seventies (not in itself a bad thing but when the carpet and seats are sticky it is!).

Why is there a need for fourteen licensed premises here? My thinking two pubs and two bars would probably serve everybody's needs.

On a personal note I'm not a smoker so welcomed the smoking ban, I also find that a lot of the smokers I know seem to think that the benefits outweigh the downside of having to nip outside. One thing that did annoy me at the time was that prior to the ban most pubs did very little to cater for the non-smoker, a few had some form of ventilation, very few had air conditioning. Once the ban was announced though every step was taken to appease the smokers with outdoor seating installed, canopies and even dedicated smoking areas to the rear. As somebody has already said though you'll most likely find them standing in the doorway with the smoke blowing in!

Pubs need to do everything they can to keep people coming back from the service they offer in relation to drinks and food, to the extras such as live music, football and other events, to the little things that people like myself notice like providing coat hooks, removing empties, polishing surfaces so you don't stick to them, wiping down the bar of spillages. It all adds up.

[@contradevian]

I'm really surprised that all the non-smokers haven't flocked to the pubs in light of the smoking ban?

Or is the reality that most regular patrons of pubs were smokers and the odd visit from a family once a month doesn't make up losing them?

I think cheap supermarket booze killed them off.

[Guest_flaps_*]

I'm really surprised that all the non-smokers haven't flocked to the pubs in light of the smoking ban?

Or is the reality that most regular patrons of pubs were smokers and the odd visit from a family once a month doesn't make up losing them?

The bandwagon was absolutely choc full of those types "Oh if smoking gets banned I will start going/go to the pub more". Seems they all forgot once the ban came in!

[Bradbury Robinson]

I think cheap supermarket booze killed them off.

Could it not be the case that overpriced pub booze is also having the same effect?

[Guest_flaps_*]

I have nothing to do with the pub trade, apart from giving them some money now and again, but find the business of pubs quite interesting.

I was talking to a friend about it on Friday, in the pub, and how the road we drink in has eight actual pubs and six bars. This is in a suburban shopping road about 300m long, not a town centre or that. I can understand that in the boom times, when people had a bit of spare cash, that this number was sustainable but now everybody is having to tighten their belt surely something has to give. What will give will be the pubs that have made no effort what so ever to cater for their customers, there are a couple who seem to have the same décor and furniture that they had from the seventies (not in itself a bad thing but when the carpet and seats are sticky it is!).

Why is there a need for fourteen licensed premises here? My thinking two pubs and two bars would probably serve everybody's needs.

On a personal note I'm not a smoker so welcomed the smoking ban, I also find that a lot of the smokers I know seem to think that the benefits outweigh the downside of having to nip outside. One thing that did annoy me at the time was that prior to the ban most pubs did very little to cater for the non-smoker, a few had some form of ventilation, very few had air conditioning. Once the ban was announced though every step was taken to appease the smokers with outdoor seating installed, canopies and even dedicated smoking areas to the rear. As somebody has already said though you'll most likely find them standing in the doorway with the smoke blowing in!

Pubs need to do everything they can to keep people coming back from the service they offer in relation to drinks and food, to the extras such as live music, football and other events, to the little things that people like myself notice like providing coat hooks, removing empties, polishing surfaces so you don't stick to them, wiping down the bar of spillages. It all adds up.

Only if the designated seating area doesn't have heaters! Which adds cost to the pub, which gets reflected in the prices, which puts more people off.

[Bradbury Robinson]

If I go out in the week for a drink with a friend then we are often on just diet coke so pubs can hardly survive if customers are just buying that.

Maybe somebody who knows the business can confirm this but I suspect that if every pint sold in a pub was coke (syrup and fizz water!) instead of beer then profits would be up. The problem is that diet coke drinkers don't tend to go out as frequently and, when they do, don't drink eight pints of the stuff!

[Bradbury Robinson]

Only if the designated seating area doesn't have heaters! Which adds cost to the pub, which gets reflected in the prices, which puts more people off.

Let's be realistic though, most people will nip out for a smoke and then get back in as quick as they can, these areas aren't really there for sitting all night in! If you're body can't tolerate five minutes of cold then there may be an underlying medical condition you need checking out!

[SarahBell]

On r4 you and yours debate about fuel tax someone rang up saying 'if we all cycled the NHS would collapse cos it needs the taxes car users pay'

by the same token we should all be drinking heavily to pay taxes to the govt.

It's just pubs priced themselves out a few years ago!

[Executive Sadman]

meh, loads of pubs seemed to close 1 or 2 years back. Not much since.

TBH most of those were dumps and should have closed 10 years back.

[Executive Sadman]

On r4 you and yours debate about fuel tax someone rang up saying 'if we all cycled the NHS would collapse cos it needs the taxes car users pay'

Or they would just print the difference. Lend it to banks at 0.5%, and get the banks to lend it back to the NHS at 5.0%

Theyre clever, these politicos.

[Bradbury Robinson]

TBH most of those were dumps and should have closed 10 years back.

Pretty much what happened around here.

Somebody said to me the other day 'Have you seen that Pub X has closed?' and then went on to suggest that it was some sort of loss to the local night life. I asked when the last time they went in Pub X was, as it was a stinky dump, to which they replied 'About twelve years ago.'!

That'll be no great loss then.

[jonb]

I think cheap supermarket booze killed them off.

Certainly part of the explanation, but a jar of nescafe is much cheaper than a coffee at Starbucks, but they are doing fine.

[Tankus]

The next generation aren't coming through, they're broke and network using their facebook accounts.

and pre load at home or in a park

[ccc]

and pre load at home or in a park

I think you may find this has always happened.

[Gone baby gone]

I think cheap supermarket booze killed them off.

People say this, but really? I always drink branded beer (Abbot Ale, Badger, etc) or a bottle of wine around the £6-8 mark when I visit the supermarket. This hasn't really changed since I was 21. The prices are broadly the same for the half decent stuff - it's only the real nasty stuff that has come down in price.

Another odd thing is that the hard-core, Fri/Sat/Sun binge drinking audience is still in pubs, it's the occasional pint after work / football / on a Wednesday when the wife's out market that seems to have evaporated, and I find it hard to believe they were so price sensitive.

[Austin Allegro]

Let's be realistic though, most people will nip out for a smoke and then get back in as quick as they can, these areas aren't really there for sitting all night in! If you're body can't tolerate five minutes of cold then there may be an underlying medical condition you need checking out!

As a pipe and cigar smoker, I can't nip out for a smoke. For me smoking is something to be savoured and enjoyed for at least half an hour, not a desperate suck on some nicotine laden floor sweepings rolled up in paper. So after the smoking ban came in I didn't go to pubs as much.

I live abroad now, they say a smoking ban's coming in here (Hungary) next year but people tend to stick two fingers up at silly rules here so hopefully it will just be ignored.

[Gone baby gone]

The bandwagon was absolutely choc full of those types "Oh if smoking gets banned I will start going/go to the pub more". Seems they all forgot once the ban came in!

Yup, I don't think the smoking ban was entirely to blame, but I reckon it's probably about 60% of the problem and has tipped many pubs over the edge.

I don't smoke, but I notice that my local boozer is only ever half full - the other half are hanging around the doors for a smoke ... not many families in there either.

[Hectors House]

there's far more profit in diet coke than beer.

It annoys me that some pubs won't sell you a pint of coke

[The Knimbies who say No]

Pretty much what happened around here.

Somebody said to me the other day 'Have you seen that Pub X has closed?' and then went on to suggest that it was some sort of loss to the local night life. I asked when the last time they went in Pub X was, as it was a stinky dump, to which they replied 'About twelve years ago.'!

That'll be no great loss then.

Quite, but at the same time it is someone's loss, and it does add to the general isolation of people in society. Plenty of older people will suffer as a result of not being able to get out to a pub which is close to them, even if it is not a very nice one.

Drinking habits are changing which unfortunately makes it inevitable that pubs will close. There are plenty of reasons in the mix- taxation, smoking ban, licensing laws, costs of freeholds etc. With supermarkets pushing out beer for well under £1 a can/bottle, pubs have no chance at current duty levels.

Seems to me like a timebomb is waiting to go off in freehold pubs in the same way it has affected local shops- landlord retires, the cost of the freehold makes it a non starter as a going concern, residential conversion ensues and a village or town's character is diluted.

[SarahBell]

The prices are broadly the same for the half decent stuff - it's only the real nasty stuff that has come down in price.

It annoys me that some pubs won't sell you a pint of coke

the price of soft drinks in pubs is shocking!

[winkie]

The two local pubs I know well are both freehold free houses that sell very good beer that changes from time to time, they both sell food, one more bar food with tv, pool and darts, the other more up market with food chalk board and a nice varied fresh sandwiches/ lunch menu with a more sophisticated evening menu, they also provide clean comfortable reasonably priced accommodation.......both pubs do well.

[Bradbury Robinson]

It annoys me that some pubs won't sell you a pint of coke

I was always puzzled when friends ordered a 'lager top', a pint with a splash of lemonade to remove the edge, that in most pubs you would be charged for a pint and then 20p or something for the shot of lemonade. Even though the lager removed to accommodate the lemonade probably costs 10x more than the lemonade put in!

[otters]

the price of soft drinks in pubs is shocking!

Agreed, but this is down to pubs having to rip-off the soft drinker because they are loosing beer drinkers, there is no, or very little direct tax on soda/tap water.

I'm sure there are plenty of directors taking a good salary out of Punch, but from what I've seen it's all at the expense off inexperienced landlords signing up to unworkable leases.

[Bradbury Robinson]

Agreed, but this is down to pubs having to rip-off the soft drinker because they are loosing beer drinkers.

This has been the case as long as I can remember, not just recently.