One In Three Uk Households 'never Worked' In Liverpool

[tombrady]

I have never worked in Liverpool although I used to in nearby Chester. A quick straw poll of my office colleagues reveals that none of them have worked in Liverpool. Impressive that 2/3 of UK population apparently have though...

On the article itself. I wonder what an updating of Boys from the Black stuff would look like.

I work in liverpool and manchester in the construction industry on the tools so i can tell you how the updated boys from the black stuff would play out.

Every character is now yosser, giz a job has made a massive comeback in the building game lately. Most firms do not take on cards in anymore and will only employ you as a subby. The workload has got to a point that lots of people are unable to make a wage via price work because the prices are so bad. One example is a full bathroom ripout and refit, toilet, basin, bath, shower, shower screen and all associated pipework will get a plumber £60 top line for a days work so after tax, ni, fuel, consumables etc you can see why lots of people are struggling to find work that will pay the bills.

The main type of work that is available to tradesmen in the north west at the moment is housing association refurbs, not directly of course, first the main contractor wins the job, then the sub contractor with the biggest backhander is told they can supply the labour for the job, not all the labour of course, just the lads on the tools. so then a plumber, joiner, spark or whatever rings the main contractor for a job and is told we have nothing available and have never been so slack , so then you have to ring all your mates to find out who gave the biggest backhander and then go to him and ask for a job and let him take 15 percent minimum of your wages to get the job.

Then we get to the first day on site and you are hit with your massive list of work for the day, then you add up what its worth after the long list of deductions, then you start swearing for a bit with the lads and then get on with working through your massive list.

Then the first wage slip comes in ( if this sub contractor bothers giving wage slips that is) compare it to the work that you have done at the current price and come to the conclusion that the suspicions you have had regarding this sub contractor are in fact correct, yes you are now working for another dirty robbing bast&rd.

The jobless figures for liverpool will be creeping up more and more now that its getting so bad on site, probably end up even worse in manchester with one of the biggest firms now accepting backhanders so no point ringing them for a job.

There are plenty of apprentiships available to unemployed people though, i think they are some kind of new fancy fast track apprentiship because they consist of somebody who wants to become a tradesman, going to college for a fortnight and then being dumped on a building site and being told that the subbys who are currently working at a 100mph on price work to earn a wage will teach you your trade (get out the way lad). Then a college assesor turns up and takes a photo of the apprentice holding a spanner, hammer, screwdriver etc to prove he is being trained correctly.

I have not seen anyone headbutted yet but i did see a foreman who was in on a brown envelope deal that was screwing the lads get put down with a straight right. I for one welcome the return of violence to the sites

[miko]

I work in liverpool and manchester in the construction industry on the tools so i can tell you how the updated boys from the black stuff would play out.

Every character is now yosser, giz a job has made a massive comeback in the building game lately. Most firms do not take on cards in anymore and will only employ you as a subby. The workload has got to a point that lots of people are unable to make a wage via price work because the prices are so bad. One example is a full bathroom ripout and refit, toilet, basin, bath, shower, shower screen and all associated pipework will get a plumber £60 top line for a days work so after tax, ni, fuel, consumables etc you can see why lots of people are struggling to find work that will pay the bills.

The main type of work that is available to tradesmen in the north west at the moment is housing association refurbs, not directly of course, first the main contractor wins the job, then the sub contractor with the biggest backhander is told they can supply the labour for the job, not all the labour of course, just the lads on the tools. so then a plumber, joiner, spark or whatever rings the main contractor for a job and is told we have nothing available and have never been so slack , so then you have to ring all your mates to find out who gave the biggest backhander and then go to him and ask for a job and let him take 15 percent minimum of your wages to get the job.

Then we get to the first day on site and you are hit with your massive list of work for the day, then you add up what its worth after the long list of deductions, then you start swearing for a bit with the lads and then get on with working through your massive list.

Then the first wage slip comes in ( if this sub contractor bothers giving wage slips that is) compare it to the work that you have done at the current price and come to the conclusion that the suspicions you have had regarding this sub contractor are in fact correct, yes you are now working for another dirty robbing bast&rd.

The jobless figures for liverpool will be creeping up more and more now that its getting so bad on site, probably end up even worse in manchester with one of the biggest firms now accepting backhanders so no point ringing them for a job.

There are plenty of apprentiships available to unemployed people though, i think they are some kind of new fancy fast track apprentiship because they consist of somebody who wants to become a tradesman, going to college for a fortnight and then being dumped on a building site and being told that the subbys who are currently working at a 100mph on price work to earn a wage will teach you your trade (get out the way lad). Then a college assesor turns up and takes a photo of the apprentice holding a spanner, hammer, screwdriver etc to prove he is being trained correctly.

I have not seen anyone headbutted yet but i did see a foreman who was in on a brown envelope deal that was screwing the lads get put down with a straight right. I for one welcome the return of violence to the sites

Thankyou very much for that .

What a sad and sorry state of affairs and those pra--ts in govenment talk about the lazy. The EU bought in some good rules to help the workers and now they seem to have been got around by all this subbing and subbing again . Why are so many people myself included employed by agencies who take a cut from the money earn't . It is about time something was done but I won't hold my breath.

[jammo]

I've never worked in Liverpool

[tombrady]

Thankyou very much for that .

What a sad and sorry state of affairs and those pra--ts in govenment talk about the lazy. The EU bought in some good rules to help the workers and now they seem to have been got around by all this subbing and subbing again . Why are so many people myself included employed by agencies who take a cut from the money earn't . It is about time something was done but I won't hold my breath.

The lazy that the government mention could be the tenants of the vast majority of the housing association properties we work on, be nice if they could give me a hand carrying something but apparently thats against health and safety rules so were not supposed to ask them

[Charlie The Tramp Returns]

Blame it all on the EU I say, wait until they welcome Turkey and all the other small States in Europe awaiting membership of the European Union of Soviet Socialist States. You have seen nothing yet. Cameron prodded by Clegg will have more mouth than action and we will be sold down the river big time. What a front bench of Government and Opposition MPs we have the old politicians must be turning in their graves.

[jammo]

The lazy that the government mention could be the tenants of the vast majority of the housing association properties we work on, be nice if they could give me a hand carrying something but apparently thats against health and safety rules so were not supposed to ask them

I'd say it is contrary to good health to shirk in such ways, they could end up another obesity statistic if they carry on like that. Must have been the safety issue - were they the chuckle brothers?

[miko]

Blame it all on the EU I say, wait until they welcome Turkey and all the other small States in Europe awaiting membership of the European Union of Soviet Socialist States. You have seen nothing yet. Cameron prodded by Clegg will have more mouth than action and we will be sold down the river big time. What a front bench of Government and Opposition MPs we have the old politicians must be turning in their graves.

The thought of Turkey joining the EU is a real worrie . I have read about the amount of young unemployed men they have in their country the last thing we want is a few million of them over here.

[miko]

The lazy that the government mention could be the tenants of the vast majority of the housing association properties we work on, be nice if they could give me a hand carrying something but apparently thats against health and safety rules so were not supposed to ask them

Can you blame them though for having said fk it I will sit on my ar-e and let the state support me after the working wages and conditions you have described ( it is not only in the building trades that wages have been dropped ) .

[Charlie The Tramp Returns]

The thought of Turkey joining the EU is a real worrie . I have read about the amount of young unemployed men they have in their country the last thing we want is a few million of them over here.

AND, we will let them all in as we will be told by the Government at the time that as a member of the EU we can`t stop them coming.

Our Politicians today have no love grenades or spunk.

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

The thought of Turkey joining the EU is a real worrie . I have read about the amount of young unemployed men they have in their country the last thing we want is a few million of them over here.

Not sure why Turkey would be interested in joining the EU until the EU was fully integrated, they have spent the last 3 years directly benefitting from not being in the Euro from a tourist perspective to the detriment of greece, unless the EU became a fully integrated state (bond wise) theres nothing in it for them. Secondly i cant see many heading to the uk, theyd head to Germany as thats where their is already a huge community of them

Edited September 8, 2011 by Tamara De Lempicka

[wonderpup]

I find it interesting that the most horrific unemployment figures tend to be in cities that once supported hundreds of thousands of jobs in heavy industries which have since declined, and would speculate that a big part of the problem is the unwillingness of people to move to find work,

Yes- one wonders why they simply didn't rent out the 4 bed detached and then rent a nice little cottage in a more prosperous area of the country- how very odd.

Meanwhile, in the real world:

To relocate to an area with jobs from your council home where there are no jobs you need to find someone willing to exchange places with you in a swap arrangement:

"Hello- I live in an unemployment black spot, while you live in an area where jobs are common- would you like to change places with me?

"F*ck off"

" Ok- thank you- have a nice day"

And this is before you begin to add in factors like local family support networks- and the sheer constraint of having virtually no money so raising a deposit on a rental is out the question ect.

If you come from a background where a certain degree of 'liquidity' in cash terms was simply a given it's hard to grasp the sheer dead weight of inertia that lack of funds combined with a benefits system that actively denies aspiration as being an irritant to it's process can impose.

I vividly recall running around the system in the 90's with a confirmed job offer in my pocket desperately trying to get a small advance to allow me to relocate- a loan, not a handout. Could I get one?- no bloody chance.

They were happy to pay me to do nothing- that was fine. But to organise the loan which would have enabled me to work was seemingly to much complexity for the system to handle- there was no process for this scenario!

So before talking about people being 'unwilling' to move to find work it's worth considering the sheer inertia that poverty combined with an absurdly unhelpful system of 'help' can create.

[iamdamosuzuki]

I find it interesting that the most horrific unemployment figures tend to be in cities that once supported hundreds of thousands of jobs in heavy industries which have since declined, and would speculate that a big part of the problem is the unwillingness of people to move to find work, and of government to realise that cities and regions go through peaks and troughs of economic activity.

In Detroit, for example, they've realised that the city contracting, because the industry that supported it at the peak of its size is also contracting. Many of the people who live there have left to find work elsewhere, and the suburbs they've left are being pulled down and turned back into countryside. Whereas here, people tend to resist that. Middlesbrough was built on iron ore extraction and steelmaking. The iron ore was mined out by the 1970s, the steelworks shut and the jobs were gone. But rather than a big part of the population moving on to wherever jobs were being created, they stayed there on benefits in decaying inner-city estates, while politicians tried desparately to conjure up new sources of employment with taxpayers' money. They couldn't, because we'd moved on to being a service sector economy (essentially), and the local workforce didn't have the skills that were needed and the companies that were creating jobs didn't want to set up shop there. But any suggestion that someone looking for work should be prepared to relocate to find is howled down as being evil, Norman Tebbit, Tory callousness, with the Guardian-reading tendency holding dear the belief that we should be entitled to spend our entire lives in the town we grew up in, with the taxpayer paying our way if we can't find a job. Frankly we shouldn't put up with this. Apart from a few exceptions where long-distance relocation would cause more economic problems than it solved (e.g. the spouse of an unemployed person would have to give up a well-paid job to relocate with the family), we should not be paying benefits to anyone for whom a job is available elsewhere in the UK and they refuse to take it.

Naff off.

Everything I care about is here. Family, lover, friends, countryside. Yes, I believe I should be entitled to stay here if I wish . And yes you are callous.

Oh if only we could exploit human resources as easily as the rest......

[miko]

Not sure why Turkey would be interested in joining the EU until the EU was fully integrated, they have spent the last 3 years directly benefitting from not being in the Euro from a tourist perspective to the detriment of greece, unless the EU became a fully integrated state (bond wise) theres nothing in it for them. Secondly i cant see many heading to the uk, theyd head to Germany as thats where their is already a huge community of them

When the eastern block states joined the EU , only three countries opened their boarders to them Germany was not one of them . It was us , Ireland and I think Sweeden . If we have another turn out like we did then they will be flocking here.

Turkey has spent the last 3 years benefitting from not being in the Euro on a tourist perspective , they could join the EU and still not join the EURO so would not destroy those benefits .

[The Ayatollah Buggeri]

Naff off.

Everything I care about is here. Family, lover, friends, countryside. Yes, I believe I should be entitled to stay here if I wish . And yes you are callous.

Oh if only we could exploit human resources as easily as the rest......

And no doubt you also believe that you are entitled to the welfare state keeping you in the style to which you are accustomed if you can't find a job where you wish to stay. I have made major relocations (as in, 200 miles plus) four times during my working life in order to stay working, something which people who have shown jealous hostility to me for having gained entry to a competitive profession in which the supply of entrants outstrips demand for them by a significant margin don't seem to think is relevant, even though many of them have refused to leave their home turf. Granted; relocating can be stressful and unpleasant, especially during the first few weeks of living in a new area where you don't know anybody. I also accept that it's not the answer in all cases. But I'm convinced that default mindsets such as the one you articulate above are part of the problem.

[miko]

And no doubt you also believe that you are entitled to the welfare state keeping you in the style to which you are accustomed if you can't find a job where you wish to stay. I have made major relocations (as in, 200 miles plus) four times during my working life in order to stay working, something which people who have shown jealous hostility to me for having gained entry to a competitive profession in which the supply of entrants outstrips demand for them by a significant margin don't seem to think is relevant, even though many of them have refused to leave their home turf. Granted; relocating can be stressful and unpleasant, especially during the first few weeks of living in a new area where you don't know anybody. I also accept that it's not the answer in all cases. But I'm convinced that default mindsets such as the one you articulate above are part of the problem.

Yes but you said it yourself PROFESSION . that equalls more reward than someone working in a steel plant or a box factory that closes down and therefore you have had the means to make that move many don't.

[okaycuckoo]

I bet an even bigger proportion of households haven't even been to Liverpool.

I've been to Glasgow. Does that count?

[okaycuckoo]

Yes but you said it yourself PROFESSION . that equalls more reward than someone working in a steel plant or a box factory that closes down and therefore you have had the means to make that move many don't.

No, we're all equal now. The professions are going down the same tube.

[Save me from the madness!]

Beware definitions. May be less incredible than you think.

Bear in mind that, unless living with parents, most single students are a "household" and have never worked. big cities tend to have more students, thats where the universities are.

Bear in mind that an elderly widow is a household and may well never have worked. Women live longer than men so amongst the elderly there is a weighting towards the widow.

I disagree.

In my student days in the first year of renting a house two out of three had worked (during sixth form and uni vacation work) and during second four out of five had worked. I expect this to be the norm except for the Yars going to St Andrew's and Oxbridge who'd simply ask mummy and daddy for money.

As for my Grandma's, both worked at various points in their lives (whether that be before they met my Grandpa's or even in some periods after) so also wouldn't qualify as never having worked.

I can't believe this 1 in 3 stat though, it's too many for my mind.

[winkie]

Blame it all on the EU I say, wait until they welcome Turkey and all the other small States in Europe awaiting membership of the European Union of Soviet Socialist States. You have seen nothing yet. Cameron prodded by Clegg will have more mouth than action and we will be sold down the river big time. What a front bench of Government and Opposition MPs we have the old politicians must be turning in their graves.

When are we getting the referendum that was promised by Mr C?

[Guest eight]

I have not seen anyone headbutted yet but i did see a foreman who was in on a brown envelope deal that was screwing the lads get put down with a straight right. I for one welcome the return of violence to the sites

Very sorry to hear that and yes, I do sometimes believe that violence is the only suitable approach.

For what it's worth it's still very hard to get tradesmen for domestic work here in the prosperous north-east.

[Tiger Woods?]

31.9% on benefits....that's a lot of hub caps..

If one can trust the journalist's interpretation of the study, this isn't 31.9% on benefits. It is 31.9% of households whose occupants have never had a paid job. It's truly an astounding figure.

Edited September 9, 2011 by Tiger Woods?

[Saver]

So what is the answer how do we as a nation sort this out ?

The answer might not be very palatable, if these people are genuinly unemployable for the long term.

[snowflux]

If one can trust the journalist's interpretation of the study, this isn't 31.9% on benefits. It is 31.9% of households whose occupants have never had a paid job. It's truly an astounding figure.

When could you ever trust a journalist to get their figures right.

A little bit of digging around on the ONS website reveals that the 31.9% figure does actually refer to the number of households where nobody is currently working, including student households. Still not a great state of affairs, but not extraordinary.

Moral: When you read something unbelievable in the paper, it's usually not true.

[Jadoube]

I disagree.

In my student days in the first year of renting a house two out of three had worked (during sixth form and uni vacation work) and during second four out of five had worked. I expect this to be the norm except for the Yars going to St Andrew's and Oxbridge who'd simply ask mummy and daddy for money.

As for my Grandma's, both worked at various points in their lives (whether that be before they met my Grandpa's or even in some periods after) so also wouldn't qualify as never having worked.

I can't believe this 1 in 3 stat though, it's too many for my mind.

Make your mind up

You agree the stat is unbelievable.

You reject possible reasons for the stat to be wrong based on an anecdotal sample of one.

You propose no alternative suggestion of a mechanism that might make the stat incorrect, as you believe it to be.

[Self Employed Youth]

Glasgow had 31.1pc of workless households, down form 30.7pc the year before.

Seems that up is the new down.

Find an old Victorian house with 10 bedrooms.

Buy to let (as an HMO) the property to 10 workless families.

10 workless households becomes one.

We could get worklessness up to 3.5% from 30%

Edited September 9, 2011 by Unemployed Again Youth