exiges Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 How can the son possibly be "enjoying the money" released, by paying off credit card debts owed to bankers who lured him in - in the first place? Plus he's now taught the kids they can live consequence free. I'm sure they thanked him, but I'd wager they don't really appreciate the gesture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 "My son Darren had a few credit cards that he wanted to straighten out," he says, "and with my daughter Sara, she recently took delivery of a more up-to-date car." Christ on a bike, he talks about his son's CC mess as if he's repairing a wheel on a pram. Daughter buys a car and finds out she can't afford it too. £29k spunked for £130k debt. Chips off the old block, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snugglybear Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 But hundreds of thousands do end up in residential care. And with projected longer lives the numbers will only increase. If as you suggest, the government pulls out, what will replace care? Is it beyond the realms of possibility that laws will be brought in similar to those in some European countries that place a duty on family members to look after relatives? That means taking money off younger family members to fund care for their older relatives directly, rather than (or probably as well as) relying on taxes from the younger generation in general to pay for the care of the older generation as a whole. Then taxes would be used predominantly for the care of oldsters with no family or savings / insurance, or with family who are on low incomes. Of course, if the majority of the population were on low incomes by then, we'd be back to square one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Bart' Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Equity release works like is a loan Amended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 If the state is going to take all your money AND your home when you are old and need care And if people with no assets or money get everything for free then the sensible option is to make sure when you are old you own nothing. infact the best option would be to live in rented accommodation paid for by housing benefit and have massive debts when you are old. Not a bad idea in principle....just make sure your neighbours are nice, all being in it together and all that...what a scream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Old age care will just decline in quality significantly. Like HK elderly homes which are horrendous. Look up Cage homes and elderly homes in HK (where the government pays) are pretty much like that except without the bars. They get fed the lowest quality food, but they do get a bed, cleaning and washing facilities and meds. Invariably they die pretty quickly once they go in there. One of my relatives is very old and had a stroke, so they effectively tie her to a chair all day and night turning her every so often so she doesn't get bed sores. I have no power of attorney so can do nowt. Her daughter is just willing her to die to inherit her money. She may have had a stroke and may well not be 100% corpus mentus but she knows this and intends to live as long as possible in horrible conditions to deny her nasty daughter her small fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Is it beyond the realms of possibility that laws will be brought in similar to those in some European countries that place a duty on family members to look after relatives? That means taking money off younger family members to fund care for their older relatives directly, rather than (or probably as well as) relying on taxes from the younger generation in general to pay for the care of the older generation as a whole. Then taxes would be used predominantly for the care of oldsters with no family or savings / insurance, or with family who are on low incomes. Of course, if the majority of the population were on low incomes by then, we'd be back to square one. Great another ponzi scheme whereby money/labour is taken off the young ones to fund older people. Because of the inequality, automation, insecure job market, these same young people will not be able to afford to have children and thus will not be able to get on to the ponzi scheme. Time has moved on from this a long time ago. Even Chinese and Asian families are ruthless enough to stick their parents in old peoples homes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Old age care will just decline in quality significantly. Like HK elderly homes which are horrendous. Look up Cage homes and elderly homes in HK (where the government pays) are pretty much like that except without the bars. They get fed the lowest quality food, but they do get a bed, cleaning and washing facilities and meds. Invariably they die pretty quickly once they go in there. One of my relatives is very old and had a stroke, so they effectively tie her to a chair all day and night turning her every so often so she doesn't get bed sores. I have no power of attorney so can do nowt. Her daughter is just willing her to die to inherit her money. She may have had a stroke and may well not be 100% corpus mentus but she knows this and intends to live as long as possible in horrible conditions to deny her nasty daughter her small fortune. Moral of the story...invest well in your children you never know when you may need them.....someone I knew similar circumstances found out the money was left to a cat home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Moral of the story...invest well in your children you never know when you may need them.....someone I knew similar circumstances found out the money was left to a cat home. Except I don't have any children and do not intend to have any either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Except I don't have any children and do not intend to have any either. Fair enough, I can't say I blame you..they are a long term lifetime responsibility....how ever old they are they will always be your babies.....but you never own them nor tie them down all you can do is let them fly free and try and guide them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Fair enough, I can't say I blame you..they are a long term lifetime responsibility....how ever old they are they will always be your babies.....but you never own them nor tie them down all you can do is let them fly free and try and guide them. You're obviously not Chinese. Children in Chinese culture are your Chattel, you own them, they are your slaves. Hell my dad still orders me to do stuff and I live independently. I tell him no and he gets very frustrated because I unlike many of my Chinese peers. Am strong enough to say no. Heh I'd guess that 60-90% of hot food places are unprofitable without the free labour provided by their children. We're discussing this elsewhere as well, in that Chinese sons and daughters STILL pay 'rent' to their parents even though they have long moved away. Meh ponzi.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) You're obviously not Chinese. Children in Chinese culture are your Chattel, you own them, they are your slaves. Hell my dad still orders me to do stuff and I live independently. I tell him no and he gets very frustrated because I unlike many of my Chinese peers. Am strong enough to say no. Heh I'd guess that 60-90% of hot food places are unprofitable without the free labour provided by their children. We're discussing this elsewhere as well, in that Chinese sons and daughters STILL pay 'rent' to their parents even though they have long moved away. Meh ponzi.... Hey, it is not only the attitude some parents have towards their children.....it can also be some men have towards their wives....nobody owns anybody except themselves.....we are all free agents with free wills. Edited August 5, 2011 by winkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I read the thread title and was going to reply... "Yes, MEW", but it looks like it's been covered in the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snugglybear Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Great another ponzi scheme whereby money/labour is taken off the young ones to fund older people. Because of the inequality, automation, insecure job market, these same young people will not be able to afford to have children and thus will not be able to get on to the ponzi scheme. Time has moved on from this a long time ago. Even Chinese and Asian families are ruthless enough to stick their parents in old peoples homes. Of course the corollary of these laws is that the oldsters can't leave their estate to cats' homes - the law lays down a formula regarding who of their relatives gets what proportion of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 which works until they stop giving free care and you're skint.Personally,I wouldn't bank on the free moeny continuing for much longer Personally I am looking forward to the day when the feckless are left to starve in the streets Unfortunately we won't see it in our lifetimes. The welfare state has taught everyone that the best way to get money is to be 'poor' My mother owned a home and had savings and she ended up in the same OAP's home as people with nothing Only difference was the state took her house and savings I intend to be heavily in debt when I finally go senile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juvenal Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Of course the corollary of these laws is that the oldsters can't leave their estate to cats' homes - the law lays down a formula regarding who of their relatives gets what proportion of it. They can and do. Close relatives can apply for some 'provision' from the Will, but there's no guarantee they'll get it. Battersea Cats and Dogs Home permanently solicit legacies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I intend to be heavily in debt when I finally go senile. I thought you needed an income to become heavily in debt nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Employed Youth Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Why don't the kids declare themselves bankrupt, keep their heads down for a couple of years, then start again? Why pay a bank for an unsecured loan your kids have taken out? Declare bunkrupt, wait for the term to finish, then take the money of mum and dad. The kids probably will, after having sold the family home for £30000. That's a HPC there! Pensioners will soon be drawing their pensions on Monday and placing the deeds to their house at cash converters on Tuesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Bear Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Personally I am looking forward to the day when the feckless are left to starve in the streets Unfortunately we won't see it in our lifetimes. The welfare state has taught everyone that the best way to get money is to be 'poor' My mother owned a home and had savings and she ended up in the same OAP's home as people with nothing Only difference was the state took her house and savings I intend to be heavily in debt when I finally go senile. My mother and aunt ditto. My aunt died recently and the home staff said would we leave her clothes rather than take them to the charity shop, since they have residents who could do with them - paid for by the council and with very little money of their own to buy anything and no relatives to help. Very nice home, though, lovely garden. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Employed Youth Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 My mother and aunt ditto. My aunt died recently and the home staff said would we leave her clothes rather than take them to the charity shop, since they have residents who could do with them - paid for by the council and with very little money of their own to buy anything and no relatives to help. Very nice home, though, lovely garden. . I hope they employ a porter to wheel them out into the garden... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 My mother and aunt ditto. My aunt died recently and the home staff said would we leave her clothes rather than take them to the charity shop, since they have residents who could do with them - paid for by the council and with very little money of their own to buy anything and no relatives to help. Very nice home, though, lovely garden. . that's very sad I wonder how much double income mortgages has to do with this I really do not get on with my parents, however I hope I give them some comfort if/when they are in this situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybernoid Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I don't know what irks me more - stupid parents who feel obliged to get into crazy amounts of debt in their old age on behalf of their adult children ... or their pathetic offspring who seem to think that it's OK to sponge off of their elderly parents when they should be responsible for their own financial matters as an adult. Bit harsh, the property bubble on which this site is based has seen to it that many many adults have little chance of a reasonable standard of living through an unlucky birth date, not necessarily by being financially irresponsible. This same bubble has gifted their parents generation with pots of free money, or equity - moving some of the blind luck of parent to offset the bad luck of offspring seems to me to be a rebalancing rather than sponging off those that 'must have worked harder'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Bart' Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Except I don't have any children and do not intend to have any either. Me neither. I'm not married and have no siblings either. Not looking good for my old age is it? Personally I am looking forward to the day when the feckless are left to starve in the streets I don't think they'll just lie down and die y'know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snugglybear Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 They can and do. Close relatives can apply for some 'provision' from the Will, but there's no guarantee they'll get it. Battersea Cats and Dogs Home permanently solicit legacies. I meant the kind of inheritance laws they have in Germany and France, for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartimandua51 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 (edited) &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I meant the kind of inheritance laws they have in Germany and France, for instance.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt; IIRC these laws were introduced by Napoleon who wanted to avoid the concentration of wealth produced by primogeniture- but now has the effect that, in the interest of "social justice"; a child who gives up his (or, more likely, her) career to look after elderly parents gets no more than the skanky offspring who never lifted a finger.<br />This difference in inheritance laws is one of the great divides between the UK and Europe - each side finds the other's attitudes incomprehensible. The Uk feels it a gross intrusion on personal freedom not to be able to dispose of your money as you wish; Europeans fin it abhorrent that children can be disinherited on the whim of a parent who may be, for example, unduly influenced by a new spouse half their age! (Or an obsession with cat welfare) Edited August 6, 2011 by cartimandua51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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