Guest Stud Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 54 minutes ago, Blobsy said: If Creg is anointed Satoshi by law that will set the cat amongst the pigeons. How do you see Craig Wright's claims playing out if he succeeds with his legal case in the Twilight ZONE of BITF*CKVILE.??, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blobsy Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 19 hours ago, stud said: How do you see Craig Wright's claims playing out if he succeeds with his legal case in the Twilight ZONE of BITF*CKVILE.??, I’m not sure how it will play out in terms of price but it will wind the maxis up no end. i do find Wright an interesting character. Wall st. Has it’s grubby mitts on btc now anyway via the etf, so much for sticking it to the man lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpig Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Let's be honest... neither a gold or btc backed currency will fix anything. The problem is the government's ability to revalue both higher to further government corruption/overspending/war. The problem is the government, not the monetary system. Correlation is not causation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpig Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 BTC has zero intrinsic value, higher volatility and will be outlawed in the West at some point. Gold isn't volatile and neither is the price. It does have intrinsic value and is supported by the current monetary system. Gold has been confiscated before. Gold is the safer, but likely less prosperous choice. BTC will make you richer if you invest BIG, but the risks for a new investor are too high IMO, despite a pending halving. Choose your poison, but FFS stop arguing about which poison is more effective - we're on the same side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nero120 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 34 minutes ago, warpig said: BTC has zero intrinsic value, higher volatility and will be outlawed in the West at some point. Gold isn't volatile and neither is the price. It does have intrinsic value and is supported by the current monetary system. Gold has been confiscated before. Gold is the safer, but likely less prosperous choice. BTC will make you richer if you invest BIG, but the risks for a new investor are too high IMO, despite a pending halving. Choose your poison, but FFS stop arguing about which poison is more effective - we're on the same side. That's just it, I don't think we are on the same side. People buy physical gold to protect their purchasing power, not to get rich (anyone that did buy for this reason has probably long sold out!). People buy cryptos only to get rich, all the BS they spout is just cover for their own greed and selfishness. Perhaps initially people thought bitcoin might provide an alternative currency but that line has been dropped when it was apparent that no one is actually transacting in crypto for anything else. This is why they denigrate gold, because they want more people to bid up their worthless tokens and care nothing for their purchasing power. There is nothing virtuous about cryptos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpig Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 On 22/02/2024 at 15:20, nero120 said: That's just it, I don't think we are on the same side. People buy physical gold to protect their purchasing power, not to get rich (anyone that did buy for this reason has probably long sold out!). People buy cryptos only to get rich, all the BS they spout is just cover for their own greed and selfishness. Perhaps initially people thought bitcoin might provide an alternative currency but that line has been dropped when it was apparent that no one is actually transacting in crypto for anything else. This is why they denigrate gold, because they want more people to bid up their worthless tokens and care nothing for their purchasing power. There is nothing virtuous about cryptos. We're both invested because we know the system is broken, the premise for investing in either BTC or Gold is the same, it's the hope of returning to sound money. The infighting is pointless... we're 2 sides to the same coin, but paradoxically - Gold and BTC are not mutually exclusive. Own both depending on your appetite for risk. We can either focus on our commonality or our differences. Given how Western governments of the world have implemented a campaign of divide and conquer, I prefer the former - not the later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nero120 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 23 minutes ago, warpig said: We're both invested because we know the system is broken, the premise for investing in either BTC or Gold is the same, it's the hope of returning to sound money. Disagree. Crypto bros couldn't give a fig about sound money, hence why they celebrate so hard when the price shoots up. Ironically enough most are so thick they don't even see the inherent contradiction there. They also push it onto others not because of any moral or virtuous desire to see society benefit from sound money, but to get more people to buy into their pyramid scheme. The sooner the crypto market collapses the better, but I think it will follow the NASDAQ either way. Which is another hilarious aspect of it all, the chart for "digital gold" follows risk assets and not actual gold. But such subtleties are lost on that crowd to the surprise of no one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpig Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 hours ago, nero120 said: Disagree. Crypto bros couldn't give a fig about sound money, hence why they celebrate so hard when the price shoots up. Ironically enough most are so thick they don't even see the inherent contradiction there. They also push it onto others not because of any moral or virtuous desire to see society benefit from sound money, but to get more people to buy into their pyramid scheme. The sooner the crypto market collapses the better, but I think it will follow the NASDAQ either way. Which is another hilarious aspect of it all, the chart for "digital gold" follows risk assets and not actual gold. But such subtleties are lost on that crowd to the surprise of no one. It's difficult to know someone's motives... only they know, but ultimately if BTC wasn't limited in quantity, no one would have been interested. That to me is synonymous with sound money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nero120 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 55 minutes ago, warpig said: It's difficult to know someone's motives... only they know, but ultimately if BTC wasn't limited in quantity, no one would have been interested. That to me is synonymous with sound money. Many other cryptos went gaga without being "limited" in quantity. Anyway the "limited quantity" argument is a logical fallacy in terms of a digital asset, because it is not physical it is unlimited by its nature. One bitcoin has as much utility and therefore "value" as one satoshi, and therefore one bitcoin is not a million times more valuable than one satoshi - the divisibility between bitcoin and satoshi is an arbitrary feature. But anyways I don't want to give you a hard time over it, let's just agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy74 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 4 hours ago, warpig said: We're both invested because we know the system is broken, the premise for investing in either BTC or Gold is the same, it's the hope of returning to sound money. The infighting is pointless... we're 2 sides to the same coin, but paradoxically - Gold and BTC are not mutually exclusive. Own both depending on your appetite for risk. We can either focus on our commonality or our differences. Given how Western governments of the world have implemented a campaign of divide and conquer, I prefer the former - not the later. Fully agree. Ignore nero. He chooses to listen to specific viewpoints then generalises that to everyone who owns bitcoin. I own both and definitely got into both due to them being sound money vs fiat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy74 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 36 minutes ago, nero120 said: Many other cryptos went gaga without being "limited" in quantity. Anyway the "limited quantity" argument is a logical fallacy in terms of a digital asset, because it is not physical it is unlimited by its nature. One bitcoin has as much utility and therefore "value" as one satoshi, and therefore one bitcoin is not a million times more valuable than one satoshi - the divisibility between bitcoin and satoshi is an arbitrary feature. But anyways I don't want to give you a hard time over it, let's just agree to disagree. One atom of gold has as much monetary utility as one kilogram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nero120 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 9 minutes ago, dannyf said: One atom of gold has as much monetary utility as one kilogram JFC do you people never get tired of your own stupidity?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy74 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, nero120 said: JFC do you people never get tired of your own stupidity?! You’re the one confidently asserting nonsense about something you don’t understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpig Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 hours ago, nero120 said: Many other cryptos went gaga without being "limited" in quantity. Anyway the "limited quantity" argument is a logical fallacy in terms of a digital asset, because it is not physical it is unlimited by its nature. One bitcoin has as much utility and therefore "value" as one satoshi, and therefore one bitcoin is not a million times more valuable than one satoshi - the divisibility between bitcoin and satoshi is an arbitrary feature. But anyways I don't want to give you a hard time over it, let's just agree to disagree. It's OK, it's a forum to discuss things, so I'm always up for a debate. I wouldn't disagree there's hysteria around cryptos, but that doesn't impact my investments or beliefs. When I think of cryptos I'm only really thinking in terms of the merits of BTC, which is limited, the others are imitations IMO. In a way BTC has brought young blood into the sound money argument, which ultimately is good for everyone. I agree... BTC only has utility whilst everyone thinks it does. Gold has intrinsic value, you can't take away it's utility, but when investing it might not matter, if you can get out in time. In terms of safety gold is as good as it gets, because you don't have to worry about timing. Central banks hold it and as long as they do... (which will be forever) it will be a store of value in society. I have too much money tied up in investments to fear the market dropping out on me, which is why BTC is largely outside of my appetite for risk. Gold will outlive BTC, but if you're lucky with timing, the profits from BTC can dwarf that of gold investments. For me it's not worth the risk. Slow and steady wins the race... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpig Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 hours ago, dannyf said: Fully agree. Ignore nero. He chooses to listen to specific viewpoints then generalises that to everyone who owns bitcoin. I own both and definitely got into both due to them being sound money vs fiat. They've always said, a balance portfolio is crucial to financial success. There's room for both... I would say that's irrefutable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpig Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 hours ago, dannyf said: One atom of gold has as much monetary utility as one kilogram What do you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stud Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 On 22/02/2024 at 14:36, warpig said: Let's be honest... neither a gold or btc backed currency will fix anything. The problem is the government's ability to revalue both higher to further government corruption/overspending/war. The problem is the government, not the monetary system. Correlation is not causation. The problem is MOST certainly the CENTRAL BANK OF ISSUE and the FIAT MONETARY system that it has created and controls .The governments & all other Dog and pony shows it can and has SPAWNED is 100 % CORRELATED to the Criminal cabal behind the Central Bank of Issue,the IMF ,BIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpig Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 14 minutes ago, stud said: The problem is MOST certainly the CENTRAL BANK OF ISSUE and the FIAT MONETARY system that it has created and controls .The governments & all other Dog and pony shows it can and has SPAWNED is 100 % CORRELATED to the Criminal cabal behind the Central Bank of Issue,the IMF ,BIS. The corruption goes all the way to the top... the UN and it's international NGO affiliates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy74 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, warpig said: What do you mean? Just a simplistic retort to neros nonsense point about the divisibility of bitcoin. Bitcoin can be infinitely divided and he was saying that effectively makes a satoshi the same as a bitcoin and that it’s all arbitrary. Which is nonsense - the important point is that the supply of total btc is fixed even if it can be divided. The same is true of gold, fixed supply, and could theoretically be subdivided as far as the atom, though of course it’s not practical to that level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nero120 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, dannyf said: Just a simplistic retort to neros nonsense point about the divisibility of bitcoin. Bitcoin can be infinitely divided and he was saying that effectively makes a satoshi the same as a bitcoin and that it’s all arbitrary. Which is nonsense - the important point is that the supply of total btc is fixed even if it can be divided. The same is true of gold, fixed supply, and could theoretically be subdivided as far as the atom, though of course it’s not practical to that level Just... wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy74 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, nero120 said: Just... wow! Thanks, appreciate it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70PC Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 On 2/22/2024 at 3:20 PM, nero120 said: That's just it, I don't think we are on the same side. People buy physical gold to protect their purchasing power, not to get rich (anyone that did buy for this reason has probably long sold out!). People buy cryptos only to get rich, all the BS they spout is just cover for their own greed and selfishness. Perhaps initially people thought bitcoin might provide an alternative currency but that line has been dropped when it was apparent that no one is actually transacting in crypto for anything else. This is why they denigrate gold, because they want more people to bid up their worthless tokens and care nothing for their purchasing power. There is nothing virtuous about cryptos. I agree about gold. Its record for holding value over the long term is good. It has many uses in chemistry, eletronics, jewelry etc. Like bitcoin, it has a limited supply. All the gold mined in the world to date would fit into a small boxroom 10 feet wide, 10 feet long, and 10 feet high. Unlike bitcoin, there are no alternatives. It is inert in air and the only yellow metal in periodic table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14stFlyer Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 12 hours ago, dannyf said: One atom of gold has as much monetary utility as one kilogram You cannot see one atom of gold. But one kg? Mmm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, 14stFlyer said: You cannot see one atom of gold. But one kg? Mmm! Yes, you can! https://fineartamerica.com/featured/stem-of-single-atom-of-gold-dr-mitsuo-ohtsukiscience-photo-library.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stud Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 10 hours ago, warpig said: The corruption goes all the way to the top... the UN and it's international NGO affiliates. Yes all SPAWNED by the CBI ...as I stated ...!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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