SaintJay Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 What is in that smoke? bad stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellow Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 So let me get this straight. Reactors 1 and 3 both suffered massive explosions which did not cause damage to the container. An explosion has happened at reactor 2 (which, yesterday, was the most feared of all the reactors due to the exposed rods). This explosion was big enough to cause a radiation leak, but did not cause a visible explosion from the outside? No videos or pictures have been released showing reactor 2 after the explosion? No reports or statements have been released for several hours since this event, and all reporters have been moved far away from the site? What is going on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.hpc Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 What is in that smoke? The stuff that's blowing inland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekking Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Good thread here with some people who actually appeared informed: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=480200 Thanks for the link, just started reading it. I liked this bit: "A shame, because this is shaping up to be a textbook example of nuclear safety. Most of the backups and emergency procedures failed, yet it looks like little radiation has been or will be released. Considering this is a forty year plant that happened to be very near one of the largest earthquakes ever recorded, I'd say nuclear power is vindicating itself. Of course, I don't expect the ignorant masses to understand what's really going on. I swear, some people hate nuclear power just because it's got ATOMS." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 What is going on? It's on a need to know basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellow Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Thanks for the link, just started reading it. I liked this bit: "A shame, because this is shaping up to be a textbook example of nuclear safety. Most of the backups and emergency procedures failed, yet it looks like little radiation has been or will be released. Considering this is a forty year plant that happened to be very near one of the largest earthquakes ever recorded, I'd say nuclear power is vindicating itself. Of course, I don't expect the ignorant masses to understand what's really going on. I swear, some people hate nuclear power just because it's got ATOMS." Well this person obviously does not know what they are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintJay Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 from the telegraph: - last hour or so: - nothing in the last 30 minutes: 20.57 Hundreds of workers have now been evacuated from Fukushima No 1 plant. Those left are battling the radiation leak as they try to cover the fuel rods with sea water.Opinion The BBC's Aidan Lewis says: "The few dozen who are left have faced explosions and fires as they rush to pump sea water into overheated reactors. The workers are being rotated in and out, to try to limit their exposure to radiation. They are also assumed to be wearing sophisticated protective clothing." 20.55 Japanese authorities said they may pour water from helicopters to stop fuel rods from being exposed to the air and releasing even more radioactivity. Quote We have no options other than to pour water from a helicopter, or to spray water from the ground," a spokesman for operator Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) said on television. "We have to take action tomorrow or the day after. The water in the containment pool of reactor number four may have been boiling earlier, Kyodo News reported. 20.48 The two missing workers were reportedly in the turbine area of reactor four when the explosion occurred, a news conference has been told. They have not been identified. 20.39 The US-based Institute for Science and International Security (ISIS) has warned that Japan's nuclear crisis could possibly become a level 7 event. It currently agrees with the assessment of France's Nuclear Safety Authority (ASN) that the incident at Fukushima should be classified as level 6 on the International Nuclear Event Scale (INES), one below Chernobyl. Following a number of explosions and a fire at the plant which released dangerous levels of radiation, ISIS said the situation had "worsened considerably" and was now closer to a level 6 event. "It may unfortunately reach a level 7," it added. 20.39 Sky News is reporting (quoting Reuters) that two workers are missing from reactor four since the explosion there at 6am local time on Tuesday. The roof of that reactor is cracked and has led to a spike in radiation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdman Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) Cut and paste job of update by blogger Hoplophobia on tickerforum: Morning/evening folks. Latest update on Reactor status from Kyodo News. (Items in parenthesis added by me from other sources)The following is the known status as of Tuesday evening of each of the six reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant. -- Reactor No. 1 - Cooling failure, partial melting of core, vapor vented, hydrogen explosion, seawater pumped in. -- Reactor No. 2 - Cooling failure, seawater pumped in, fuel rods fully exposed temporarily, vapor vented, damage to containment system, potential meltdown feared. -- Reactor No. 3 - Cooling failure, partial melting of core feared, vapor vented, seawater pumped in, hydrogen explosion, high-level radiation measured nearby. -- Reactor No. 4 - Under maintenance when quake struck, fire caused possibly by hydrogen explosion at pool holding spent fuel rods, pool water level feared receding. (Outer containment building perforated by explosion from No.3-Reuters, Crack in roof of outer containment building-Reuters, 4 Workers missing after explosion, last seen near Reactor 4-Reuters) -- Reactor No. 5 - Under maintenance when quake struck, temperature slightly rising at spent fuel pool. -- Reactor No. 6 - Under maintenance when quake struck, temperature slightly rising at spent fuel pool. Edited March 15, 2011 by mdman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Woods? Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 My point is I don't need an expert to understand the coal issue and neither do most other adults who are likely to look at it, the cause and effect of coal are exactly the same sorts of things i've been aware of since I was young - dirt, choked lungs, accidents, explosions. They go fractal of course and operate over millions of us and larger areas but the basic principles are the same. The cause and effect of nuclear radiation are non experiential. I have no map for them, other than what I am given by an expert and, like everyone else in this life I have been shafted deliberately by experts in the past for their own personal gain who have used my ignorance against me. Hell, it's more or less the entirety of the definition of expert in some fields.* *economists and lawyers, I am looking at you. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 +1 I thought anarchists were all for nuclear power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloomMonger Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Well this person obviously does not know what they are talking about. To be fair, not many people do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonlywayisdown Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 BBC News main headline has been 'Radiation falls at Japanese plant' for the best part of half a day, afaik. Panic over then? That kinda headline seems like good news. Good old BEEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepLurker Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I thought anarchists were all for nuclear power. I thought that the defining characteristic of anarchists was that they all had different opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Woods? Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 We would have to sacrifice them all. A worthy cause. But think about the children... ...they could be used to plug small gaps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D179 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 New fire at reactor 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintJay Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 no. 4 is on fire again. this is getting worse - very slowly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 no. 4 is on fire again. this is getting worse - very slowly. Just in the time for the markets.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) BBC News main headline has been 'Radiation falls at Japanese plant' for the best part of half a day, afaik. Panic over then? That kinda headline seems like good news. Good old BEEB Beeb just reporting that another fire has broken out at the 'inactive' reactor 4 (the only one not yet to actually explode). It's the one that's apparently stuffed full of used fuel rods. EDIT: a bit late there. Apparently another explosion too. Edited March 15, 2011 by Sour Mash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 no. 4 is on fire again. this is getting worse - very slowly. A bit like the slow-motion crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 # 2153: Flames are rising from the reactor, AP reports. # 2157: Tepco says efforts are underway to tackle the fire inside the building which houses the number four reactor, Reuters reports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 building said to be inaccessible because of radiation. They can't put out the fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 The plant was earthquake proof in that the quake did not damage the reactors/infrastructure.... The Tsunami did not damage the reactors/infrastructure either so on that basis the engineering was sound.. The problems stem from a failure of the coolant pumping system. Cooling for the fuel reaction is a critical part of its operation, The reasons the coolant pumps failed was power loss due to the switching gear being installed in a basement room which was flooded by the Tsunami. Perhaps with hindsight not the best place to put the control electronics for such a critical part of the system? End of the day the lessons from this need to be explored to the nth degree. If the failures are expressly due to the poor location of the switch room and its subsequent flooding then it is a problem easily addressed going forward. It would be a damn shame for the Worlds nuclear generation industry to whither and die as a result of an easily addressable 'fix'. It is easy to say that Nuclear should be done away with but the stark reality is peak oil is very likely already upon us. Its effects will only get worse as more nations look to plug their energy gaps once they lose nuclear. Wind and wave will never be able to offer a real alternative even if we were to go as far as spending hundreds of Billions installing plant from Cornwall to Orkney. If we are forced to do away with nuclear and taking into account the available knowledge today to progress to alternatives we are condemning our children to a far worse standard of living that we have enjoyed. Personally it's clear the design was fatally flawed and some basic disaster management scenarios should have picked that up. With something like this you have to aim for perfection, failure isn't really an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Maybe only a nuclear bomb can put it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 BBC apologising for the "grainy" pictures of the Fukushima plant. The last time I saw "grainy" pictures of a nuclear plant it was the Chernobyl pictures taken from a helicopter. That was attributed to huge levels of radiation affecting the images. It could just be a coincidence of course and if it's modern digital photography then I imagine it's not affected by radiation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 # 2153: Flames are rising from the reactor, AP reports. # 2157: Tepco says efforts are underway to tackle the fire inside the building which houses the number four reactor, Reuters reports. It's not looking good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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