Protest Against The Banks

[MEtallic]

For those who say a 7th Dec mass cash withdrawal is a bad idea, what alternative do you advocate?

Lib-Dems, Labour and the Conservatives are all as clueless or deceitful as each other, so elections make little difference. Violent protest, is, well...violent and illegal and probably counter productive. Doing nothing is leading us to ever and ever increased debt and transfer of wealth to the few from the many.

BTW, those who think the recent announcement of cuts are going to put the UK on the right track are probably misguided. The Lords just watered down a bill that would have caused the 'Bonfire of the Quangos' so the Quangos will continue in one form or another; the rumoured 40% cuts didn't even reach the stated 25% cuts and are no more than 19%. Will the government survive or will it be forced to water down it's proposals even more??

I also believe these cuts aren't adjusted for inflation so inflation adjusted come to even less. An excellent analysis by Walaytat here highlights the issue. Cutting the deficit even as planned does nothing to cut the ever increasing national debt, itself a result of loose monetary policy and mispricing of 'money'.

Result? We have more and more of our wealth (what little of it is left) confiscated by inflation, where it ends up as bonuses for overpaid bankers. The process will continue regardless of what type of government is in power. In the UK, we have become so timid and apathetic, that even the suggestion that we take our own money back is met with disdain! Maybe Lord Young was in fact right. Whether unemployed, employed or underemployed, we've never had it so good and until a significant proportion of our nation is begging on the streets, we will maintain the status quo.

[bumpy]

From your comments on the subject, you have accused people of being Gold-rampers, students and anarchists with vested interests. I would suggest to you (again) that this is more worrying for bankers than any protest march will ever achieve. You seem obsessed with poo-pooing any suggestion that people have that right as it is a waste of time and no-one will listen. My suggestion (again) is that this Direct Action is more effective than previous actions.

I would agree that direct action is better, so why not go round and shit on a bankers doorstep.

A threat to cause a run on banks will severely distress savers, in particular the elderly and infirm who have their meagre savings squirrelled away in banks. How does that make you feel big man?

[copydude]

For those who say a 7th Dec mass cash withdrawal is a bad idea, what alternative do you advocate?

Lib-Dems, Labour and the Conservatives are all as clueless or deceitful as each other, so elections make little difference.

(snip)

I think you encapsulate the dilemma well. We haven't come up with a clever protest yet.

I have a couple of problems with this protest.

1. The temporary shortage of cash will incovenience a lot of ordinary people more than the banks. (No win.)

2. The sole focus on the banks as the bad guys tends to let those in power, who were totally complicit, off the hook.

Property price inflation and reckless credit (destroying whole countries) were mainly the result of Government negligence, failure to regulate and a wilful interest in a Ponzi scheme that made it look as if they had created miracle economies. (Yeah, right.)

I think it was Injin who said something like 'blaming the bankers for greed is like blaming gravity for a plane crash'. The Governments of the day were ultimately responsible and should bear the brunt of any protest. This seems to sidetrack the real issue.

[DTMark]

Did I miss something..

Is this some orchestrated campaign that I haven't heard anything about?

Any links?

[VeryMeanReversion]

The completion date for my house purchase is Dec 6th, just in case. I'm pulling all my money from the banking system by Dec 3rd in advance, leaving only money in NS&I index-linked certs.

I'm sick of being ripped-off by the banking system, even my kids savings are basically being robbed by rates so low, the real-value will be half-gone by the time they are 18. Instead, their savings are going towards renovating a large outbuilding so they will have somewhere to live rent-free when they get to 18+. If they don't want to live in it, they can have the rental income instead.

[Tired of Waiting]

I'm fairly happy with what the coalition are doing so far. I don't see the point of protesting against cuts that this government had been forced into by the mistakes of the last.

I won't be withdrawing my money simply because of the logistics and inconvienience. At least the banks are lending sensibly again.

+ 1

[bumpy]

The completion date for my house purchase is Dec 6th, just in case. I'm pulling all my money from the banking system by Dec 3rd in advance, leaving only money in NS&I index-linked certs.

I'm sick of being ripped-off by the banking system, even my kids savings are basically being robbed by rates so low, the real-value will be half-gone by the time they are 18. Instead, their savings are going towards renovating a large outbuilding so they will have somewhere to live rent-free when they get to 18+. If they don't want to live in it, they can have the rental income instead.

You worry about a few percentage points on the kids savings yet you buy a property just near the top of a bubble!

There's some very muddled thinking going on here.

[cakehead]

Withdraw cash, go to Comet, buy 100" plasma screen, watch economic growth reports. Jobsagoodun'.

[Papa Serf]

I will withdraw some cash and move money around just to be a pain, the idea is not to collapse a bank but to disrupt the system for a day or even a few hours will do. If the computers couldn't cope and went down for just 10 minutes imagine the queues in the shops with no plastic payments.

Its a protest not a killing.

[Tired of Waiting]

I will withdraw some cash and move money around just to be a pain, the idea is not to collapse a bank but to disrupt the system for a day or even a few hours will do. If the computers couldn't cope and went down for just 10 minutes imagine the queues in the shops with no plastic payments.

Its a protest not a killing.

Are you sure about that? Can you (or anybody) control that?

Don't get me wrong, there is a part of me, a very angry part of me, that would love to see fecking mayhem all over the fecking place. But my rational side knows that this would not end up too well.

Suppose the news headlines about this cash withdrawing protest spook a portion of the sheeple into withdrawing as well, and then news about that spook the rest of the sheeple into withdrawing also.

It could get quite serious. Really. Who knows? It is shouting fire in a crowded (and already tense) theatre.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Tired of Waiting

[Odysseus]

And just for good measure up pops a story to scare or put fear (the strongest emotion going) into any savers who are mainly old people into taking their money out.

I think the establishment are running scared as I havent seen a mass bank run contingency in the MOD documents I've been looking at!

http://www.dailymail...h-roof-car.html

I will withdraw what meagre savings I have. The reason being that this is the most straight forward and direct form of action.

We all know the banks are insolvent, let's spread the news.

When a million people march through the middle of London and make no impact, you know there's no amount of letter writing that will every make a difference.

[bumpy]

Are you sure about that? Can you (or anybody) control that?

Don't get me wrong, there is a part of me, a very angry part of me, that would love to see fecking mayhem all over the fecking place. But my rational side knows that this would not end up too well.

Suppose the news headlines about this cash withdrawing protest spook a portion of the sheeple into withdrawing as well, and then news about that spook the rest of the sheeple into withdrawing also.

It could get quite serious. Really. Who knows? It is shouting fire in a crowded (and already tense) theatre.

I totally agree with this. I am guessing most of the people looking to withdraw money are talking fairly small sums.

Perhaps someone would explain how they are going to withdraw £50,000. How they are going to walk safely through the streets, where they are going to store it safely and how long they are going to go with no interest. Such a poorly throught out scheme.

And yes I believe the extremist want to smash banks to pieces. The mugs are the ones who just want to rattle the banks a bit, but are getting drawn along like sheep into a much more serious scenario.

[Papa Serf]

I totally agree with this. I am guessing most of the people looking to withdraw money are talking fairly small sums.

Perhaps someone would explain how they are going to withdraw £50,000. How they are going to walk safely through the streets, where they are going to store it safely and how long they are going to go with no interest. Such a poorly throught out scheme.

And yes I believe the extremist want to smash banks to pieces. The mugs are the ones who just want to rattle the banks a bit, but are getting drawn along like sheep into a much more serious scenario.

Atleast I'll be a mug of my own making rather than just taking it up the arris from all and sundry. A sheep I'm not.

[leicestersq]

I would agree that direct action is better, so why not go round and shit on a bankers doorstep.

A threat to cause a run on banks will severely distress savers, in particular the elderly and infirm who have their meagre savings squirrelled away in banks. How does that make you feel big man?

Now I am confused. Should I go into the bank to withdraw my money, or should I leave a deposit on the counter?

[sugarflux]

Worst case scenario, my folks own their own place, have enough wood to burn for years and a veg patch large enough to feed a few families. I can steal from farms and the hedgerow, snare rabbits, eat the old etc. They also have guns to defend themselves.

Well we've all got to have a dream.

Eat the old.. ? Is that an unfinished sentence or are you taking a Soylent Green type view of this revolution?

Personally I can't see how this mass-cash-withdrawal scheme is going to help. When the other banks went under how many of us benefited from that situation? Seriously - how many people lost their savings? The banks will be bailed out as they have been before leading to further pain for us savers.

The government will survive, the banks will survive. The only pain and inconvenience caused will be to the rest of us - the one's who haven't withdrawn all our cash. This is attempting to force me to commit to an action I'm not happy about through fear - isn't that low-grade terrorism?

I, personally, like my bank - and hope they don't go under. They've always been great to me, imo have been much more sensible with their policies than other high street banks, not offering 110% mortgages and sign on the dotted line loans. I spend a great deal of time choosing the best monthly savings accounts, ISAs, as well as medium term investments. Why on earth should i want to take my money out of the bank? At a time when people are lucky to get 3% on savings - I should turn it down and say no thanks, I don't want this interest? This sends completely the wrong message for me.

The coalition is doing more at the moment to clear up Labour's mess. It's never quite enough but at least it's small steps in the right direction which is more than we ever had from the last government. Keep it up - let's keep moving forward.

That's not even to mention that this crazy form of non-violent protest seems to be led by a bit of a mad frenchman, who's violent history resembles Mahatma Gandhi's in the one and only fact that they've probably both had a curry or two.

Hope I've not offended anyone here - just my two-pence worth.

~S~

[Papa Serf]

Personally I can't see how this mass-cash-withdrawal scheme is going to help. When the other banks went under how many of us benefited from that situation? Seriously - how many people lost their savings? The banks will be bailed out as they have been before leading to further pain for us savers.

The government will survive, the banks will survive. The only pain and inconvenience caused will be to the rest of us - the one's who haven't withdrawn all our cash. This is attempting to force me to commit to an action I'm not happy about through fear - isn't that low-grade terrorism?

I, personally, like my bank - and hope they don't go under. They've always been great to me, imo have been much more sensible with their policies than other high street banks, not offering 110% mortgages and sign on the dotted line loans. I spend a great deal of time choosing the best monthly savings accounts, ISAs, as well as medium term investments. Why on earth should i want to take my money out of the bank? At a time when people are lucky to get 3% on savings - I should turn it down and say no thanks, I don't want this interest? This sends completely the wrong message for me.

The coalition is doing more at the moment to clear up Labour's mess. It's never quite enough but at least it's small steps in the right direction which is more than we ever had from the last government. Keep it up - let's keep moving forward.

That's not even to mention that this crazy form of non-violent protest seems to be led by a bit of a mad frenchman, who's violent history resembles Mahatma Gandhi's in the one and only fact that they've probably both had a curry or two.

Hope I've not offended anyone here - just my two-pence worth.

~S~

I can't disagree totally with this but the savers voice needs to be heard, I don't want the guv to back down because of the protests of the feckless and seeing that as the popular opinion, if you see what I mean?

[The Bull Trap]

Eat the old.. ? Is that an unfinished sentence or are you taking a Soylent Green type view of this revolution?

We're not in 2022 yet, but yes, that was what I was getting at. As I said, worst case scenario - I have to keep that at the back of my mind otherwise i'd go insane worrying about my money and when/if I should buy a house... Obviously, I don't think it will go that way, I merely state what I would do if mass social disorder arrived with a huge financial collapse...

I agree with your points in the rest of your post, I don't see what this action achieves besides tempting the undesirables of society into wandering the streets on the 7th searching for vulnerable people with sacks of cash.

Edited November 25, 2010 by The Bull Trap

[MEtallic]

I'm fairly happy with what the coalition are doing so far. I don't see the point of protesting against cuts that this government had been forced into by the mistakes of the last.

I can't remember any of the current government saying anything about loose monetary policy, the destruction of our manufacturing industry, the deskilling of our workforce, the depletion of our North sea oil & gas, and the bubble in house prices that was so obvious to many people. If they did, then they didn't say it loud enough.

They're just making it up as they go along, and hoping that things pick up elsewhere so we can export ourselves out of this mess. Big problem: the elswhere is hoping for the same thing!

[bumpy]

So I personally cant see a better way than to send a message home to the powers that be.

Anyway I dont know what everyone is so worried about, the BBC has already stated its not going to affect anything, so carry on take you money out and lets see who is really right! Bluff time one last time I hope!

So what do you think this protest is about?

1. Bringing down a bank or two resulting in Government bail out with more of our taxes

2. Not causing any destabilising damage, but sending a strong message to the banks and Government that we are all pissed off?

[Papa Serf]

'tr1ck5t3r'

Yeah, what he just said.

[Fawkandles]

I could pay off my overdraft if that would help?

Seriously though, savers are suckers. Its one thing saying savers get a bad deal, but saying that and continueing to save is pure sucker-ness. The cash should have been moved years ago, not now.

If you don't like a product but continue to buy it, what message does that send to the producer? We are Rip-off Britain because British people don't mind being ripped-off. They winge, but don't act.

Man up!

Edited November 25, 2010 by Fawkandles

[Lepista]

I'm fairly happy with what the coalition are doing so far. I don't see the point of protesting against cuts that this government had been forced into by the mistakes of the last.

I won't be withdrawing my money simply because of the logistics and inconvienience. At least the banks are lending sensibly again.

What, like bringing down the debt / defecit? Not sure they are doing even that.

£7bn saved from expenditure

£8bn spent on bailing out Ireland

£8bn (additional) just announced for the railways

Current defecit £160bn per year (or thereabouts)

Current debt (official) ~1,000 billion

Current debt (unofficial) ~4,000 billion.

The current government is emptying a bathtub with a thible, whilst the taps are

[wealthy]

Most people don't have money to withdraw

Most that do probably wouldn't walk down the street with several thousand pounds

See the problem?

[bumpy]

I could pay off my overdraft if that would help?

Seriously though, savers are suckers. Its one thing saying savers get a bad deal, but saying that and continueing to save is pure sucker-ness. The cash should have been moved years ago, not now.

If you don't like a product but continue to buy it, what message does that send to the producer? We are Rip-off Britain because British people don't mind being ripped-off. They winge, but don't act.

Man up!

You're obviously a bit of a financial wizz kid, so what do you suggest we do with money that we dont want to put at risk?

[sugarflux]

Edit: I will also add when you look at your rhetoric, it seems to be straight out of the handbook for how to create emotion.

ie being lead by a Frenchman....

You've already dismissed it as "crazy" which instantly makes other readers want to dissassociate themselves with "crazy" behaviour.

And you cite Mahatma Gandhi which we all know is an Indian so for the stereotypical right wingers are considered racist and thus wouldnt associate themselves with people like that, you have done a good job with your post, subtle but still obvious with the strings you play to put across your thoughts.

I assure you there was no handbook used to compile my post and any emotive suggestion was unintentional, especially alluding to discrimination based on race. I refer to Gandhi purely as the phrase 'non-violent protest' has been used in several places and i instantly associate this phrase to him as it was what he stood for.

I apologise if anyone was offended by the term 'mad Frenchman' and again it was not my intention to cast any racial illusions - but is purely the description that pops into my mind when i recall the memories of the mad Frenchman in question tw*tting a fan with some sort of Bruce Lee style acrobatics or punching a team-mate on the nose - ie. the epitome of 'violent protest'. The 'mad' refers purely to Cantona and not to the French as a race.

...it sends a very clear message to the banks and to the Govt the people have had enough with the current system

I also should have added an 'in-my-opinion' to the term 'crazy' due to the fact that i believe the 'message' this plan hopes to send is the wrong message, directed at the wrong people and adversely affecting more of the wrong people.

It is terrorists that send destructive messages to get what they want, a protest is a declaration of objection - by definition 'often in opposition to something a person is powerless to prevent'. But cause and effect seem to have been forgotten in this grand plan - the cause of 'the message' may well be mis-understood by banks and gov's as disruption by extremists, imo, whereas the potential effects of 'the message' may well be felt for many decades - but not by banks and gov - by hard-working savers and the general public.

For this reason - i opt out.

~S~