Public Sector Regional Concentration

[RentingForever]

I was reading through Clegg's speech on the OBR report ( http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/10006/nick_clegg_speech_state_of_our_public_finances_is_even_worse_than_we_thought.html) and this bit caught my eye:

"Reforms to pensions and pay that impact directly on the public sector will of course need to take the needs of different parts of the country into account. Some parts are much more dependent on jobs in the public sector than others...And we are acutely aware of the need to ensure they don’t suffer disproportionately as a result of future cuts."

What he seems to be saying is that there won't be a national target on cuts - because that would mean that areas more dependent on the state sector would "suffer disproportionately". A 20% cut on a state-heavy area would impact on the local economy more than a 20% cut on a state-light area.

So does this mean that expects the state-light areas to bear more of the cuts? And wouldn't the outcome of such a policy mean that state activities become even more concentrated on the already state-heavy areas?

[i'm unsure whether this is a good or bad thing, BTW]

[Executive Sadman]

Someone ought to tell him it isnt Soviet Russia (yet), we dont have closed cities and people are free to choose where they live, and his regional immigration BS was laughed at.

More Vince, Less Nick please.

I think it means the Liebour government liked writing blank cheques to Scotland, and as his party has fair support in Scotland, he doesnt want to rock the boat and will continue to kiss Fatty Salmonds backside.

[The Masked Tulip]

But isn't the real problem that large parts of the country are basically dependent on public sector jobs and we need more private sector jobs in them.

Or will we remain a divided and unproductive nation?

[cypher007]

Someone ought to tell him it isnt Soviet Russia (yet), we dont have closed cities and people are free to choose where they live, and his regional immigration BS was laughed at.

More Vince, Less Nick please.

I think it means the Liebour government liked writing blank cheques to Scotland, and as his party has fair support in Scotland, he doesnt want to rock the boat and will continue to kiss Fatty Salmonds backside.

i think we should give Wales and Scotland independance financially, and save a packet in sick pay, benifits, tuition fees, and prescription charges.

[The Masked Tulip]

i think we should give Wales and Scotland independance financially, and save a packet in sick pay, benifits, tuition fees, and prescription charges.

Can we have all the money back for the coal, iron ore and copper that were nicked from us over 200 years - inflation adjusted of course.

You English are worse than the Borg - at least they tell you that they are going to assimilate and strip you bare!

[dissident junk]

Can we have all the money back for the coal, iron ore and copper that were nicked from us over 200 years - inflation adjusted of course.

You English are worse than the Borg - at least they tell you that they are going to assimilate and strip you bare!

Can we invoice you for the cost of the impact of the Labour movement then? Also, I reckon you should pay reparations for Neil Kinnock's disastrous impact on English working class life.

Don't worry though... you could bill Italy for the gold the Romans stripped out of your hills in 300AD. That should probably cover everything.

[The Masked Tulip]

Can we invoice you for the cost of the impact of the Labour movement then? Also, I reckon you should pay reparations for Neil Kinnock's disastrous impact on English working class life.

Don't worry though... you could bill Italy for the gold the Romans stripped out of your hills in 300AD. That should probably cover everything.

You can blame us for the NHS as well!

[lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)]

Can we have all the money back for the coal, iron ore and copper that were nicked from us over 200 years - inflation adjusted of course.

link

[hilltop]

Reforms to pensions and pay means cuts in Clegg speak.

How will this have a Regional impact unless it is at a hugely high level?

If he said jobs cuts, the relationship and impact would be clear.

What is he on about? Does HE know?

What happened to Liberal discussion and concensus?

Has Camoron eaten Clegg?

[huw]

Actually there's a powerful argument for siting public sector jobs away from the economic centre of a currency area, which is that interest rates are invariably set with the needs of that centre in mind, putting the regions at a relative disadvantage.

c.f. "Northern unemployment is a price worth paying to curb Southern inflation". That literally means that Northern jobs are knowingly sacrificed to meet the economic needs of the South. Replacing those jobs with public sector employment isn't ideal, but at least it redresses the balance somewhat.

(typo)

Edited June 15, 2010 by huw

[huw]

Can we invoice you for the cost of the impact of the Labour movement then? Also, I reckon you should pay reparations for Neil Kinnock's disastrous impact on English working class life.

Sorry, that came out of a statist political framework that you invented and imposed, so the invoice will be coming in the other direction

[RDW]

Disaclaimer, I am Welsh, but now live in England because I am fed up with what th welsh were doing to wales.

You welsh and scott's need to stop seeing yourselves as oppressed victims who are owed a living by the other side of the boarder, while chasing your (boardering on fanatical) nationalist agenda's.

Untill you are forced to face reality, with the loss of your pocket money, will you actually get off your backsides and do something entrprenurial.

It saddens me as a drive round wales, visiting both my parents and my out laws, to see what I call the tafia actively making conditions worse for people who would like to relocate and set up businesses there.

I can not really comment on Scotland, but Wales, at least try and make yourself appear like a place that I would want to set up business, rather than coming accross as a coccky adolescent lay about with not much going for them.

[dissident junk]

Sorry, that came out of a statist political framework that you invented and imposed, so the invoice will be coming in the other direction

To be paid in part by the liability imposed by Tom Jones, Harry Secombe and Shakin Stevens upon the English cultural landscape (I've knocked you a bit off for Ruth Madoc and Shirley Bassey, mind).

[bendy]

Blimey… this is an interesting one.

I’d imagine most people would think that London has the bulk of private sector jobs, but take out the bailed out financial sector and they have more public funds than any other region of the UK.

The North, Labour heartlands, meanwhile had all their private industry shut down or exported somewhere cheaper. There is nowhere that isn’t state dependent.

[huw]

Disaclaimer, I am Welsh, but now live in England because I am fed up with what th welsh were doing to wales.

You welsh and scott's need to stop seeing yourselves as oppressed victims who are owed a living by the other side of the boarder, while chasing your (boardering on fanatical) nationalist agenda's.

As I mentioned above, transfers within regions are part of what enables large/diverse currency unions to function. The regions (including English regions) are not owed a living, but they are owed some restitution for being subject to exchange and interest rates that are managed by fiat according to the needs of the centre. The EZ provides a living example of what happens when this stress-relieving mechanism doesn't exist.

In the case of the UK, either it needs to break up, or stay together while accepting that there will be internal transfers. If it breaks up by negotiation rather than by secessionist force (c.f. Eire), then the political and moral reality is that there will be transitional arrangements, funded by powerful/rich centre whose idea the whole thing was.

Given that the political entity called the UK seems pretty stable at the moment, I believe that situating necessary public employment to the regions is as good a way as any of making balancing transfers, far better than having more people on the dole. New Labour's big mistake in this area was to try to shower prosperity across the regions, by making unnecessary spending. That obviously needs to be rolled back everywhere.

[huw]

To be paid in part by the liability imposed by Tom Jones, Harry Secombe and Shakin Stevens upon the English cultural landscape (I've knocked you a bit off for Ruth Madoc and Shirley Bassey, mind).

It's a fair cop

[huw]

Blimey… this is an interesting one.

I'd imagine most people would think that London has the bulk of private sector jobs, but take out the bailed out financial sector and they have more public funds than any other region of the UK.

Even in a successful financial sector, state-provided banking licences are worth quite a bit

[TwoWolves]

Disaclaimer, I am Welsh, but now live in England because I am fed up with what th welsh were doing to wales.

You welsh and scott's need to stop seeing yourselves as oppressed victims who are owed a living by the other side of the boarder, while chasing your (boardering on fanatical) nationalist agenda's.

Untill you are forced to face reality, with the loss of your pocket money, will you actually get off your backsides and do something entrprenurial.

It saddens me as a drive round wales, visiting both my parents and my out laws, to see what I call the tafia actively making conditions worse for people who would like to relocate and set up businesses there.

I can not really comment on Scotland, but Wales, at least try and make yourself appear like a place that I would want to set up business, rather than coming accross as a coccky adolescent lay about with not much going for them.

+1

Someone had to say it.

[The Masked Tulip]

Disaclaimer, I am Welsh, but now live in England because I am fed up with what th welsh were doing to wales.

You welsh and scott's need to stop seeing yourselves as oppressed victims who are owed a living by the other side of the boarder, while chasing your (boardering on fanatical) nationalist agenda's.

Untill you are forced to face reality, with the loss of your pocket money, will you actually get off your backsides and do something entrprenurial.

It saddens me as a drive round wales, visiting both my parents and my out laws, to see what I call the tafia actively making conditions worse for people who would like to relocate and set up businesses there.

I can not really comment on Scotland, but Wales, at least try and make yourself appear like a place that I would want to set up business, rather than coming accross as a coccky adolescent lay about with not much going for them.

Won't get a disagreement from me.

[plummet expert]

But isn't the real problem that large parts of the country are basically dependent on public sector jobs and we need more private sector jobs in them.

Or will we remain a divided and unproductive nation?

Yes, Wales, Scotland and the North East are very dependent on public spending. Clegg is trying to smooth the obvious call that the cuts will flatten them. Any meaningful cuts will cause a drop in living standards for us all. Sorry, but we cannot allow ourselves to arrive at a national debt of £1.376 Trillion in 2015. It would be impossible to ever pay that back. Interest rates of 5% on that would mean that a cut of half in the structural deficit, as Liebour promised would result in virtually NO saving of the structural deficit. Catch 22 once you borrow too much. Just like your own finances. Take out another ten credit cards with £5k on each, spend the lot and see how you get on. Brown has racked up borrowing of £78k for each of us. Well, thanks but it was more than stupid.

[keeprenting]

FFS can't we just grant Wales and Scotland their independence? Why on earth should we (the English) continue to subsidise two countries who hate our guts and continually inflict Labour governments on us?

[Wario]

FFS can't we just grant Wales and Scotland their independence? Why on earth should we (the English) continue to subsidise two countries who hate our guts and continually inflict Labour governments on us?

Because your Landlord won't let you.

Why should she and her coterie of feudal mini-me hangers-on give up their playgrounds and toy kingdoms in the conquered territories?

After all, costs her bugger all. Paying for it's your job, subjects.

[huw]

FFS can't we just grant Wales and Scotland their independence? Why on earth should we (the English) continue to subsidise two countries who hate our guts and continually inflict Labour governments on us?

You could say the same for swathes of England vis-a-vis London and the South East, too

This is about regional imbalances rather than nationalism IMO. The UK's economic centre-of-gravity is strongly tilted in one direction and toward one sector (and has been for a very long time). A lot of consequences flow from that.

In the long run many of us might be better off with their own monetary and fiscal arrangements, but there's a lot of pain between here and there -- if we ever get there at all. And oddly enough, I wonder if London/SE would gain less than the others in the end, because while they wouldn't have to pay subsidies any more, they'd also lose the massive advantage that comes from being the policy-maker and money-issuer within a large currency union.

There has to be some reason to explain why a government based in Westminster fought tooth and nail, first to establish the Union and then to keep anybody from leaving

[needsleep]

Maybe it makes sense to disproportionately cut public spending in areas where there is low dependence on public sector employment. I'm dying to see Dave's Big Society in action, to see the civil-minded do-gooders of places like Saffron Walden voluntarily rolling out essential services.

[The Masked Tulip]

Whatever Clegg says the cold reality is that you can't allow Wales to continue with 69% of the economy based on the Public Sector, North of England around 60% and Scotland around 55%.

Those parts of the country are going to have to be forced to change to a more dynamic, more vibrant economy but how they go about it is beyond me.

In the 80s Thatcher basically empowered the Welsh Office to form the Welsh Development Agency who were given big bags of money to create jobs in Wales - they appeared to then have two policies:

1. Build hundreds, if not thousands, of metal sheds come empty factories all across Wales.

They even built some on top of windswept, bleak fog-covered mountains.

2. Made it virtually impossible for anyone from within Wales to get a grant to set up a business - endless paperwork and a public servant at the end asking you for 5 years of books - but seemed content to hand out squillions to any Johnny Foreigner.

The end result being that loads of people who had been turned down for funding elsewhere turned up in Wales and got handed a big bag of cash, when the cash ran out they left... Oh, and they built a huge factory to make CRT TVs just as the entire planet decided to go and buy flat panels.