So What's This Then?

[Levy process]

TTRTR posted

If you really believe that, I suggest you pay that last months rent. It'll be worth it for the reference from your landlord which you'll need because you'll be renting for a very long time to come!

Who's heard of a reference from a landlord? What value would be placed upon such an item? And what is the general consensus on the matter as to whether this is a thing which is real or a figment of an over active imagination?

Discuss....

[Time to raise the rents.]

You must be joking?

[aclwalker]

I would have thought references would have been fairly common for people wishing to rent decent accomodation, say through letting agents, but I've never rented, so I wouldn't know for sure.

As for their worth, well I had neighbours not so long ago that would rival anything you see on the tabloid TV "world's worst neighbour" type programmes. They "came highly recommended" the landlord of their flat told me.

Obviously they came highly recommended in order to get rid of them.

Therefore, I would take them with a pinch of salt personally, much like any reference really. Anyone making a decision solely on references can't be much of a judge of character really, but maybe the whole PC thing has made people scared of 'pre-judging' people and/or making their own minds up about anyone.

[Marina]

I have just decided to move and I said to the letting agent 'My wife and I are very good boys and girls - we always pay our rent on time and have looked after the property like it is our own.

Our present landlord of course was asked for and gave us a reference. And, because we look like a good bet, we negotiated £250 a month off the rent for the next place.

Time to Raise the Rents? Not yet, it appears.

[Guest Bart of Darkness]

Who's heard of a reference from a landlord? What value would be placed upon such an item? And what is the general consensus on the matter as to whether this is a thing which is real or a figment of an over active imagination?

Figment, without a doubt, just like TTRTR's various sycophantic alter ego's!

[FTB]

TTRTR posted

Who's heard of a reference from a landlord? What value would be placed upon such an item? And what is the general consensus on the matter as to whether this is a thing which is real or a figment of an over active imagination?

Discuss....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course, although I'd rather get no reference and keep the last month's rent, 99% of LLs are thieving little turds who will do their utmost to keep at least 50% of your deposit for nonsense reasons. Tenants have very little comeback, keep the last months rent and let it come out of the deposit - next flat you can just claim you're a first time renter and bingo, everyone's a winner - LL hasn't lost anything and you've got away without him/her fleecing you. (Assuming of course you haven't actually broken/damaged anything beyond fair wear & tear, in which case you should 'play the game' and cough up x% of the deposit), but as a general rule you should avoid paying the last month's rent and let it come out of the deposit.

[Gen-X]

In all my years of renting (five different properties so far) I have never been asked for a reference from my previous landlord. Only a letter from my current employer has ever been required and one months rent deposit. This deposit I have always got back when I have moved out.

[Red Baron]

TTRTR is right in the sense that a good rental track reference is a valuable indicator for future landlords and will ease the process of securing a lease. Think of a reference as your 'no claims bonus'. I have always insisted on one and have always been given it.

Having said that all too many unscrupulous landlords will find any excuse not to refund the deposit and in these cases I recommend using the deposit in lieu of the final months rent. In other cases landlords are simply so financially strapped that they will be unable to repay.

Another instance where you should withhold the final months payment is where the agent is stakeholder and you have reason to think they are in financial difficulty; I very narrowly escaped losing my deposit this way but fortunately the nice girl I was dealing with at the agency tipped me off that her firm was going bankrupt.

As always, use your judgement and keep your ear to the ground about your landlord. Things are about to get extremely tough for many of them.

Edited August 9, 2005 by Red Baron

[frugalista]

TTRTR posted

Who's heard of a reference from a landlord? What value would be placed upon such an item? And what is the general consensus on the matter as to whether this is a thing which is real or a figment of an over active imagination?

Discuss....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's a joke, I have rented many different places and I have never been asked for a reference. Most landlords cannot be arsed to write one anyway. Show them evidence of your salary and that is always enough in my experience. Since my university ripped me off via the deposit several times, usually I don't even let the landlord take a deposit in the first place (landlord doesn't have one for my current flat). They can have a bit of rent in advance if they like, but no deposit.

If they have taken a deposit I never pay the last month's rent. I leave the place in a good state. If the landlord thinks there is some reason I owe them money, they can contact me at my forwarding address.

frugalista

[Marina]

Of course, although I'd rather get no reference and keep the last month's rent, 99% of LLs are thieving little turds who will do their utmost to keep at least 50% of your deposit for nonsense reasons.  Tenants have very little comeback, keep the last months rent and let it come out of the deposit - next flat you can just claim you're a first time renter and bingo, everyone's a winner - LL hasn't lost anything and you've got away without him/her fleecing you.  (Assuming of course you haven't actually broken/damaged anything beyond fair wear & tear, in which case you should 'play the game' and cough up x% of the deposit), but as a general rule you should avoid paying the last month's rent and let it come out of the deposit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If my current landlord holds back one penny of my deposit - I'll see him in court. I can afford legal proceedings - maybe lots of youngsters are afraid of them.

[AgeingBabyBoomer]

Given the current oversupply in the rental market, perhaps future tenants shoud be asking the landlord for references from his previous tenants.

I for one would like to know that my landlord is financially solvent and responsible about fulfilling his contractual obligations.

I certainly don't want to rent from a fuzzy chinned BTLer whiose financial silvency is very questionable.

I want a professional and curteous landlord who respects my rights and privacy as a tenant and comes running when the pipes burst.

ABB

Edited August 9, 2005 by AgeingBabyBoomer

[Red Baron]

Given the current oversupply in the rental market, perhaps future tenants shoud be asking the landlord for references from his previous tenants.

I for one would like to know that my landlord is financially solvent and responsible about fulfilling his contractual obligations.

I certainly don't want to rent from a fuzzy chinned BTLer whiose financial silvency is very questionable.

I want a professional and curteous landlord who respects my rights and privacy as a tenant and comes running when the pipes burst.

ABB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point; increasingly the boot will be on the other foot.

Remember too that as a tenant you are entitled to 'the quiet enjoyment' of the property you rent without harassment from the landlord.

[Unexpected]

In all my years of renting (five different properties so far) I have never been asked for a reference from my previous landlord. Only a letter from my current employer has ever been required and one months rent deposit. This deposit I have always got back when I have moved out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In all my years of renting I have concluded that only London EA's are thieving scum. All other EA's and private LL'ss have given the deposit back. The three London ones all tryed to keep the full deposit. The last one paid me back after threatening with court action and when I leave this place I'll definately be withholding the last months rent. I couldnt give a damn about references or credit checking. Its so easy to rent these days and I can offer 6 months in advance if necessary. Its a renters market just like its a buyers market.

[Disillusioned ftb]

Of course, although I'd rather get no reference and keep the last month's rent, 99% of LLs are thieving little turds who will do their utmost to keep at least 50% of your deposit for nonsense reasons.  Tenants have very little comeback, keep the last months rent and let it come out of the deposit - next flat you can just claim you're a first time renter and bingo, everyone's a winner - LL hasn't lost anything and you've got away without him/her fleecing you.  (Assuming of course you haven't actually broken/damaged anything beyond fair wear & tear, in which case you should 'play the game' and cough up x% of the deposit), but as a general rule you should avoid paying the last month's rent and let it come out of the deposit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I fully concur with this post

i've rented 4 properties, and on the first 2 occasions I never got my deposit back even though the property was in an "as it was" condition when i took it on, but the last time i vacated a property I kept my last months rent.

[WBFTB]

I have always been asked for a reference.

[New Darker Law]

TTRTR posted

Who's heard of a reference from a landlord? What value would be placed upon such an item? And what is the general consensus on the matter as to whether this is a thing which is real or a figment of an over active imagination?

Discuss....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have heard of them, however, the sheer masses of rental properties available will make them irrelevant.

I reckon the desperate BTL amateurs will be biting your hand off before they even think about a reference.

If they insist on it, go elsewhere.

In the current climate I reckon it'd be worthless so yeah, keep last months rent etc etc.

NDL

[TW11]

I have rented six (!) different places. Always got the deposit back in full. Never once asked for a reference but obviously always had a credit check.

Always rented through letting agents.

I don't understand how come deposits get withheld? Maybe I've been lucky?

[munro]

So far I've always managed to get the deposit back, though with the last one I let my LL take the deposit as the last month's rent as I didn't trust her. If I didn't get the deposit back I'd write a polite letter giving the LL ten days' to pay up or explain why not and if the answer wasn't satisfactory I'd go straight through Small Claims. There's been so many problems with rental deposits I doubt any LL pulling this stunt would get much sympathy from the court.

BTLers are in business and they should expect to play by the rules or get sued. They might well find themselves on the end of a backlash and find they get their properties trashed by tenants who have nothing; the sort of people the law (civil law, that is) effectively can't touch. Which would make BTL very unattractive. Not saying that this will happen but a generation of young people forced into BTL by HPI might end up biting the hand that rips them off.

[MarkG]

It's also worth remembering that an unscrupulous BTL landlord might give a problem tenant a good reference just to get rid of them .

[Levy process]

Seems like there's a wide spread of experiences then, with some people never having been asked for a reference, and other saying they always are. Interesting.

I must say, in all the years I rented I never heard of such a thing as a reference from a previous landlord, and have never been asked to supply one.

I might add, that I personally would consider such a reference as utterly worthless. For one thing there is hardly any reason for a landlord to be compelled to tell the truth, so what weight can anyone put on it? And secondly if a set of salary statements, bank statements and a credit check are enough for building societies to lend hundreds of thousands of pounds to buy a house, I can't see why renting one for 6 months should require anything more special, certainly not a reference.

Sounds to me like a lot of landlords have an inflated sense of their own importance asking for references.

And I think there is a lot in the ideas posted by some that it is going to be the other way around soon, in that people wanting to rent will be requiring good words about the potential landlord. Landlords may have to "become more competitive".

[Levy process]

You must be joking?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not at all. And as we can see by the variety of replies above, there are a lot of other people who have never heard of or been asked for a landlord's reference too.

To be fair, there are also some claiming they are always asked for them. Quite an interesting spread of results then.

Still, I must say I think that Landlords have a rather inflated sense of their own importance asking for and providing "references". After all, you don't need one to borrow hundreds of grand to buy a house; a credit check and a set of employment and salary details seems to be enough for the building societies. With the comparatively piffling amounts of money involved in renting for six months, I fail to see why anything beyond that is required.

[Guest]

If you've had trouble with your landlord, and you're reasonably young-ish whats to stop you just saying 'I've been living with my parents' while you go through a different agent?

It's also worth remembering that an unscrupulous BTL landlord might give a problem tenant a good reference just to get rid of them .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... Which draws an interesting comparison with the job market. I believe that almost no employers ask for, or give real references these days for fear of being sued by the employee for character defamation, or by the next employer - 'You said this guy was good!'

References in employment are strictly limited to 'yes, Joe worked here between these dates, his job title was blah and he had X days off sick.'

From your new landlord's point of view, it's the word of one man he's met (ie: you) against another man he likely hasn't (your previous landlord).

[MarkG]

And as we can see by the variety of replies above, there are a lot of other people who have never heard of or been asked for a landlord's reference too.

I never have. Twice I've been asked for a reference from the company I work for (saying how much I earn and how long I've been working here, that kind of thing), but never for a reference from a landlord.

And while all my landlords have been decent people, if you're renting from some crooked BTL-er, surely even they will realise that the word of some other crooked BTL-er is worthless?

[Levy process]

I'm still waiting for TTRTR to get back to us on this one.

I would like to know why he/she thought my original question was a "joke". Seems like it was a perfectly reasonable one, based on the spread of replies.

Edited August 10, 2005 by Levy process

[Nijo]

I've rented in about 8 different places since leaving uni and have been offered a reference from my LL once or twice but never been asked for one. I have almost always been asked for a salary reference. I suppose that if I couldn't provide a salary reference then one from the LL would be the next best thing: "Yes, a very good tennant, always pays on time", etc.

I've also *always* received the full deposit back. In only one case though did the LL hold the deposit in a savings account and return it to me with interest. Everybody else skimmed off the top.