Teachers Getting Militant

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/a...-tpLgYVDN1-lrFA

I am not sure this will wash in the current environment. Get ready for some disruption before the election.

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

They are overpaid child containment officers. If they want kids cooped up learning sod all and coming out unable to write effectively or do simple maths they could just employ beefy nightclub bouncers to do the job. Give them a few books or let them climb trees all day and the kids may actually more than listening to some droney-voiced cretin at the front providing a dumbed-down curriculum.

Edited April 13, 2009 by CrashedOutAndBurned

[tinker]

The bottom line is we cannot nor will be able to afford the public sector and associated Quangos, contracts and diversionary public-to-private sector schemes we have.

Something will have to give. The current situation is neither sustainable or desirable.

Wealth has to be produced to support the services the public sector offers (many of which are necessary), and the cost and scope kept in balance.

There is a perverse irony that the general taxpayer pays the wages of public servants and then has to pay their taxes on top so they don't feel so bad.

Any bleating from the public sector simply won't wash in a recession.

[Butthead]

I know it sounds terrible,but I'm really beginning to detest the NUT and the teachers who support them.

£30k p.a for a 38 week year.yep,that's fair on the bloke stacking shelves.and while we're at it,dump the unfunded pension liability on him too.

yeah let him work for forty hours a week,48 weeks a years for 55 years so you can retire at 50 on 2/3 final salary.

Perhaps he should have tried harder at school...

[Dopamine]

Teachers always bleat - that's what they do.

Always amazes me how much they seem to hate children - relentlessly negative press releases from the NUT about how appalling behaviour is etc.

You'd swear they had all been press ganged - someone needs to remind them that they chose this career, and for the hours they work it is extremely well paid. Hopefully with the recession it will get more competitive resulting in a purge of the 'challenged' ones who can't spell and who have third class degrees.

10% is the biggest joke I've heard for weeks.

[Injin]

Perhaps he should have tried harder at school...

it doesn't matter if he does, ultimately.

Someone has to stack the shelves, dig the ditches etc. If everyone tried 100% at school, then you'd have to divide up everyone and then allocate them a place in the world based on the tiny fractions of difference that remain.

Modern education is set up not to provide objectively measurable results, but simply to divide humans up pre workforce relative to each other.

And the techers will strike and disrupt and the government will cave in and pay them by pritning - a la argentina/russia/etc collapse. They'll get nomnal rises that actually buy SFA.

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

The education system is about everything but teaching kids. It's time for a voucher system so people can get the education they really want, not have to put up with a centrally-planned curriculum, social engineering, and the monopoly of the teaching profession. Can anyone honestly say teachers have special pedagogical skills? I'd guess most of us have built our knowledge through self-study or learning from others who for the most part do not have formal teaching qualifications.

The unions rail against the idea of 'unqualified teachers' as they know the PGCE is a bit of fluff and teaching is mostly about clear communication and having an engaging personality. There are probably thousands of graduates on 12k in office junior or retail jobs who'd be great teachers for 18K or less.

Edited April 13, 2009 by CrashedOutAndBurned

[guitarman001]

TEN percent!!!!!!!

teaching has been on the back of my mind for a while but it is NOT true that there is a massive shortage of physics/maths teachers in Scotland - only really in England. More lies and I'm glad I held off (for now) as it would have been a complete wate of my time and money.

[Thatcherschild]

I know it sounds terrible,but I'm really beginning to detest the NUT and the teachers who support them.

£30k p.a for a 38 week year.yep,that's fair on the bloke stacking shelves.and while we're at it,dump the unfunded pension liability on him too.

yeah let him work for forty hours a week,48 weeks a years for 55 years so you can retire at 50 on 2/3 final salary.

The problem with teachers is that they allow themelves to be herded by militant Trade Union types with no real oncern for children or their welfare. You hear teachers moaning about SATs, but they don't mobilise to do anything about it (except where the alleged workload makes them feel unloved). Yet, they are able to get behind the common cause of their pay and conditions whenever the occasion arises, as frequently it does.

If teachers stood up to the "educationalists" who cause the rot in the education system, Brtain would be a better place. For "educationalists" read "failed teachers". That's almost like a double negative.

[Butthead]

it doesn't matter if he does, ultimately.

I was being sarcastic.

In all seriousness, 10% is ridiculous and simply won't happen. If it did, it would set a huge precedent for all other public sector workers.

There are lots of problems with teaching, based around bureaucracy and discipline amongst other things, but teachers should be proposing workable ways of dealing with these problems, not shouting for impossibly high salary increases.

[medusa]

I know it sounds terrible,but I'm really beginning to detest the NUT and the teachers who support them.

£30k p.a for a 38 week year.yep,that's fair on the bloke stacking shelves.and while we're at it,dump the unfunded pension liability on him too.

yeah let him work for forty hours a week,48 weeks a years for 55 years so you can retire at 50 on 2/3 final salary.

Although I disagree with the accuracy of your "facts" (retiring at 50? The 2/3 final salary takes 40 years to accrue so this alone makes that age unlikely, unless you happen to know more 10 year old teachers than I do, and it does take 6 years for you to be on £30k!), I agree that asking for a 10% increase is just plain ridiculous, and makes the profession look both greedy and insensitive at a time when we enjoy greater job security than most others. Agree with scrapping SATs - very detrimental to primary school children as English / Maths / Science is ALL that many schools do in Year 6.

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

The problem with teachers is that they allow themelves to be herded by militant Trade Union types with no real oncern for children or their welfare. You hear teachers moaning about SATs, but they don't mobilise to do anything about it (except where the alleged workload makes them feel unloved). Yet, they are able to get behind the common cause of their pay and conditions whenever the occasion arises, as frequently it does.

If teachers stood up to the "educationalists" who cause the rot in the education system, Brtain would be a better place. For "educationalists" read "failed teachers". That's almost like a double negative.

Yes. We need a voucher system and a plurality in education. When sex-lessons-for-tots, or easy-peasy exam questions are are rolled out all we are told is that 'the guvmint' have done it. The educational elites who dream up this crap are hidden from view and you have to dig out exactly who is the source of this centrally-planned nonsense. Why should the vast mass of the population have no choice but to have their 'education' force-fed from the centre?

[Quagmire]

I know it sounds terrible,but I'm really beginning to detest the NUT and the teachers who support them.

£30k p.a for a 38 week year.yep,that's fair on the bloke stacking shelves.and while we're at it,dump the unfunded pension liability on him too.

yeah let him work for forty hours a week,48 weeks a years for 55 years so you can retire at 50 on 2/3 final salary.

In the UK 30k is about the minimum if you want any hope of raising a family and having a decent standard of life. What sort of house would a 30k salary buy you in a big city? Teachers are unionised and therefore able to defend their salary, the guys stacking shelves are not.

The dumbed down curriculum is the problem. Trying to cover the same subjects in the same level of detail with kids of all abilities and backgrounds just doesn't work. A kid with a good upbringing who wants to learn should not be lowered to the level of a thick ASBO monkey.

Scrap the curriculum, let the schools teach with the oversight of the parents.

[Danny Deflation]

I wouldn't take public sector unions too seriously: they always "demand" ridiculous pay rises, in the hope that the government will cave in and meet them at least a quarter of the way. Teachers' current annual pay rise is 2.4%.

I am not slagging off all teachers with what I am about to say, as this is just one of the teaching unions that is kicking off, and not teachers per se. But I will say this: teachers have 13 weeks holiday a year, a lovely pension, and an average salary of between 30 and 40K (and that's just for a bog standard classroom teacher with no responsibilities). If they don't like the job, or the wage, then why don't they shut up and leave the profession. Simple as.

Edited April 13, 2009 by Danny Deflation

[Injin]

Yes. We need a voucher system and a plurality in education. When sex-lessons-for-tots, or easy-peasy exam questions are are rolled out all we are told is that 'the guvmint' have done it. The educational elites who dream up this crap are hidden from view and you have to dig out exactly who is the source of this centrally-planned nonsense. Why should the vast mass of the population have no choice but to have their 'education' force-fed from the centre?

There is no choice until thee is actual choice- i.e. it's not paid for by taxes. You can't bolt on a voucher system to a coercive monopoly and then expect free market mechanics to work.

The central planners will just co opt it.

[Frank Hovis]

The bottom line is we cannot nor will be able to afford the public sector and associated Quangos, contracts and diversionary public-to-private sector schemes we have.

Something will have to give. The current situation is neither sustainable or desirable.

Wealth has to be produced to support the services the public sector offers (many of which are necessary), and the cost and scope kept in balance.

There is a perverse irony that the general taxpayer pays the wages of public servants and then has to pay their taxes on top so they don't feel so bad.

Any bleating from the public sector simply won't wash in a recession.

What he said.

Teaching in state schools looks like an awful job these days. The dull standardised national curriculum takes out all the interest from the subject and the opportunity to teach what interests the teacher. Add in the lack of discipline and you have a lot of disillusioned teachers out there just doing it for the money.

And, as the 1970s showed, when you are only in a job for the money you become militant.

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

Scrap the curriculum, let the schools teach with the oversight of the parents.

The trouble is the teachers in some ways like a direct link to the state. Most are ideologically attached to 'state' education. The trouble is you cannot have schools as child-prisons and schools as places of learning at the same time.

Unruly kids shouldn't be forced to sit down for hours bored out their minds in French and History and Maths. Send on a motorcycle maintenance course, let them do something in the community, find something that captures their interest.

Friends that are interviewed for teaching jobs complain that even in 'middle of the road' comps it's all about discovering your track record in 'classroom management' - ie. being a prison warder. A Doctor doesn't have to have elaborate strategies for dealing with unruly patients - he accesses security, he refuses to give treatment.

Edited April 13, 2009 by CrashedOutAndBurned

[Guest X-QUORK]

Aah, the perennial "Teachers are lazy scum" thread. I'm predicting 14 pages.

[Danny Deflation]

Aah, the perennial "Teachers are lazy scum" thread. I'm predicting 14 pages.

Teachers are no different to any other profession.

But nice salaries, nice holidays, nice perks, nice pensions. I wish they would stop moaning for five minutes.

[Scunnered]

Aah, the perennial "Teachers are lazy scum" thread. I'm predicting 14 pages.

I was thinking that as well, but they're all on holiday at the moment so there's no-one to fight back.

[Carld]

some teachers are being payed a lot less that they would be if they had gone into private employment.

leaving university with a first class degree in maths chemistry or physics etc could drop you in a job paying twice a teachers wage however the public would love these graduates to follow a career in teaching in order to educate their children to the highest standard therefore if this is what we want then we need to pay a wage that tempts these graduates into the profession.

also a good teacher works a lot longer hours than you think, planning marking and training to deliver the best possible lessons. should those teachers that put the work in be payed less because some teachers work 8:30 til 4:00?

10% is a bit high however whilst private sector wages have been inflating higher than rpi teachers have been trailing with below rpi wage inflation.

[jackdanielsrn]

Teachers are no different to any other profession.

But nice salaries, nice holidays, nice perks, nice pensions. I wish they would stop moaning for five minutes.

Agree, personally i think they have a thankless job, but also a job with all the above perks!

10% is crazy and how they can band that around when the Armed Forces are dodging bullets in various conflicts and they get a 2.8% rise! Im sure the privates on 16k a year will appreciate the teachers getting 10%! No wonder they are leaving in their droves!

[Quagmire]

The trouble is the teachers in some ways like a direct link to the state. Most are ideologically attached to 'state' education. The trouble is you cannot have schools as child-prisons and schools as places of learning at the same time.

Unruly kids shouldn't be forced to sit down for hours bored out their minds in French and History and Maths. Send on a motorcycle maintenance course, let them do something in the community, find something that captures their interest.

Friends that are interviewed for teaching jobs complain that even in 'middle of the road' comps it's all about discovering your track record in 'classroom management' - ie. being a prison warder. A Doctor doesn't have to have elaborate strategies for dealing with unruly patients - he accesses security, he refuses to give treatment.

Fine. Let me select a school to send my children to. Give me the money that would have been spent educating my kid and I'll donate that to my school of choice. Better still, don't take the money in the first place (one can dream..).

I was lucky enough to attend a grammar school which "played along" with the curriculum but allowed the teachers a lot of freedom. The teachers there were certainly not attached to the state, probably because New Labour tried its hardest to shut the school down.

If an "unruly kid" doesn't want to learn because its parents haven't bothered to provide an upbringing then that's a damned shame. I wouldn't want it disrupting the classroom anyway. Pandering to these imbeciles is what makes them think they can leach off the state for their entire crappy life.

[mirage]

Teachers always bleat - that's what they do.

Always amazes me how much they seem to hate children - relentlessly negative press releases from the NUT about how appalling behaviour is etc.

I suspect if I was a teacher I would hate children too. I don't envy most of their jobs.

Having said that, the NUT have always represented the nutcase branch of teaching.

Edited April 13, 2009 by mirage

[Guest absolutezero]

The education system is about everything but teaching kids. It's time for a voucher system so people can get the education they really want, not have to put up with a centrally-planned curriculum, social engineering, and the monopoly of the teaching profession.

And with that sentence you have just explained why the kids can't read and write properly.