SarahBell Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 http://www.summit.co.uk/about-us Summit is one of the most extraordinary success stories of the UK’s digital media industry. We started in 2000 at HMP Wolds with the ambition of providing businesses with highly-effective online marketing services supported by a pioneering training and rehabilitation scheme for prisoners that would lead to employment upon release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderpup Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Why not have a prison/supermarket combo so that the prisoners can work side by side with the unpaid people from the job centre- that way the convicts can learn about their future in the world of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saberu Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) This company are scum, this is no better than slave labour. At least they are highlighting the obvious problem, the jobs given to these prisoners aren't economical at minimum wage so clearly living costs need to be brought down in the UK to the same levels they have in China and India so we can compete. Because there are millions more jobs gone overseas which should have stayed here. 120 pounds/ month is less than minimum wage for most places in China. Just to put into perspective how little they are paying. Edited February 19, 2012 by Saberu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John The Pessimist Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 What is the monthly cost of detaining prisoners at her majesty's pleasure? If that was added to their £120 payment, the headline looks very different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Why not have a prison/supermarket combo so that the prisoners can work side by side with the unpaid people from the job centre- that way the convicts can learn about their future in the world of work. Its good to see prisoners getting a better hourly than Workfair workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-so Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 This company are scum, this is no better than slave labour. At least they are highlighting the obvious problem, the jobs given to these prisoners aren't economical at minimum wage so clearly living costs need to be brought down in the UK to the same levels they have in China and India so we can compete. Because there are millions more jobs gone overseas which should have stayed here. 120 pounds/ month is less than minimum wage for most places in China. Just to put into perspective how little they are paying. The marginal cost of an extra prison place is £41,000 per year. The Chinese minimum wage in Beijing (presumably one of the highest) is 1260 yuan, at the current FX rate of 9.98, that is £126. The prisoners are being offered £30 a week, or £130 p/m, higher than Beijing. Unlike their "free" Chinese equivalents, the prisoners do not have to put the money towards food, accommodation, clothing or fuel. I am sure that in the UK there are plenty of people who do not have that much surplus cash after the essentials, even honest people who have not lost their liberty as a punishment. Also, I do not know how long the inmates spend working. Is it 12 hours a day like in China or about 15 hours a week? Once you take into account that the inmates are doing a proper job and not stitching mail bags or peeling potatoes, it seems a great deal. If I was banged up, I would jump at the chance to do something like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) The marginal cost of an extra prison place is £41,000 per year. The Chinese minimum wage in Beijing (presumably one of the highest) is 1260 yuan, at the current FX rate of 9.98, that is £126. The prisoners are being offered £30 a week, or £130 p/m, higher than Beijing. Unlike their "free" Chinese equivalents, the prisoners do not have to put the money towards food, accommodation, clothing or fuel. I am sure that in the UK there are plenty of people who do not have that much surplus cash after the essentials, even honest people who have not lost their liberty as a punishment. Also, I do not know how long the inmates spend working. Is it 12 hours a day like in China or about 15 hours a week? Once you take into account that the inmates are doing a proper job and not stitching mail bags or peeling potatoes, it seems a great deal. If I was banged up, I would jump at the chance to do something like this. That is all completely beside the point. The point is that a company is getting full time labour at 130/month, which gives it an unfair taxpayer subsidised advantage and reduces job availability for everyone else. --- Edited February 19, 2012 by awake_eagle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJAR Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 That is all completely beside the point. The point is that a company is getting full time labour at 130/month, which gives it an unfair taxpayer subsidised advantage and reduces job availability for everyone else. LIFE IS NOT A ZERO SUM GAME. ONE PERSON WINNING DOES NOT MEAN ANOTHER PERSON LOSING. THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST PERSISTENT ECONOMIC FALLACIES OF ALL TIME. so basically no it doesn't and you are wrong. The number of jobs in the economy is not fixed so they re not taking jobs from other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) so basically no it doesn't and you are wrong. The number of jobs in the economy is not fixed so they re not taking jobs from other people. WRONG. The only fair way to do this would be if the company pays at least minimum wage and then the state deduces a fair chunk from that to pay for prison meals and accommodation. In that case the company wouldn't have an unfair advantage and the jobs would be competing fairly with the open job market and there would be no taxpayer subsidy. It's not hard to do these things right, all it needs is some common sense (which seems to have disappeared in 21st century UK). Edited February 19, 2012 by awake_eagle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disenfranchised Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Agree with that I think. Company should pay at least the min wage for the prisoners, a token amount going to the prisoner and the rest to subsidise the cost of the prison. Actually, I think I would be in favour of making participation a condition of early release too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulfar Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 LIFE IS NOT A ZERO SUM GAME. ONE PERSON WINNING DOES NOT MEAN ANOTHER PERSON LOSING. THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST PERSISTENT ECONOMIC FALLACIES OF ALL TIME. so basically no it doesn't and you are wrong. The number of jobs in the economy is not fixed so they re not taking jobs from other people. It may not be a zero sum game, but if big companies can get there work done for £130.00 a month by prisoners or for free by benefit claimants then not only this company but others will jump on the band wagon. The ultimate result is that work will not pay. It will also mean that if you try to start your own business and you don't have access to these schemes you will not be able to compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJAR Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Or the jobs would just not exist if there was no subsidy. I'm not condoning the policy - which is a useless and arbitrary distortion of the market, but the statement that this will directly mean that those jobs will be taken away from people is completely wrong. other jobs will be lost in the wider economy due to the taxes levied to pay for the prison for these workers, yes but that is a separate issue to that of competition by lowering wages. the act of prisoners going out to work does not reduce the number of jobs in the economy. the taxes taken to pay for their prison places does mean there is less work in the economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderpup Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Its good to see prisoners getting a better hourly than Workfair workers. I never thought of that! So being a criminal is the route to a pay rise in brave new world of 21st century employment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderpup Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Or the jobs would just not exist if there was no subsidy.I'm not condoning the policy - which is a useless and arbitrary distortion of the market, but the statement that this will directly mean that those jobs will be taken away from people is completely wrong. other jobs will be lost in the wider economy due to the taxes levied to pay for the prison for these workers, yes but that is a separate issue to that of competition by lowering wages. the act of prisoners going out to work does not reduce the number of jobs in the economy. the taxes taken to pay for their prison places does mean there is less work in the economy. If the number of jobs is a function of demand and no new demand is being created by those jobs then it's entirely possible to argue that those prisoners are taking work away from other people. Paying virtually no wages means that the prisoners add no demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufflesTheGuineaPig Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Saw something on TV a while back, apparently 3/4 of white goods manufactured in America are made by prisoners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) http://www.summit.co.uk/about-us Summit is one of the most extraordinary success stories of the UK's digital media industry. We started in 2000 at HMP Wolds with the ambition of providing businesses with highly-effective online marketing services supported by a pioneering training and rehabilitation scheme for prisoners that would lead to employment upon release. The sort of work they are doing is probably something I'd hire a virtual assistant in the Philipines to do (or even the States with "work at home moms"). Hire on various specialist forums or odesk for $2-3 an hour typically dependent on experience and training. Clearly workers with English as a first language is advantageous (especially for article marketing, blog commenting etc..). Sadly many in the UK are precluded from hiring themselves out in this way due to the very high cost of living. Clearly a win win for Summit as they will doubtless have a boiler room telesales operation promoting expensive SEO services to SME's whilst fulfilling with cheap labour. Edited February 20, 2012 by "Steed" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saberu Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Or the jobs would just not exist if there was no subsidy. I'm not condoning the policy - which is a useless and arbitrary distortion of the market, but the statement that this will directly mean that those jobs will be taken away from people is completely wrong. other jobs will be lost in the wider economy due to the taxes levied to pay for the prison for these workers, yes but that is a separate issue to that of competition by lowering wages. the act of prisoners going out to work does not reduce the number of jobs in the economy. the taxes taken to pay for their prison places does mean there is less work in the economy. This is true. These jobs are not economical at minimum wage.. It's most likely blog commenting. However it's a very unfair advantage given to this company to have British people with perfect grammar/ spelling doing this job on taxpayers money to pay for the prisons. Whilst not as boring as peeling potatoes I'm sure doing blog comments 8 hours/ day would be worse than working in a factory because it's a very mundane task that also requires thinking through the mundane details so I'm sure it's a hellish job to do. I'd rather work in a factory than do that job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) This is true. These jobs are not economical at minimum wage.. It's most likely blog commenting. However it's a very unfair advantage given to this company to have British people with perfect grammar/ spelling doing this job on taxpayers money to pay for the prisons. Whilst not as boring as peeling potatoes I'm sure doing blog comments 8 hours/ day would be worse than working in a factory because it's a very mundane task that also requires thinking through the mundane details so I'm sure it's a hellish job to do. I'd rather work in a factory than do that job. Are you saying that Summit is a company of forum and blog spammers that produce fake customer testimonials and fake user reviews en masse? Great, no wonder they would need people with little moral scruples (that are more likely to be found in prisons) to do these tasks... And we are even subsidising them through our taxes!! IMHO the world would be far better off without such scamming/cheating/lying online marketeers. --- Edited February 20, 2012 by awake_eagle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Are you saying that Summit is a company of forum and blog spammers that produce fake customer testimonials and fake user reviews en masse? Great, no wonder they would need people with little moral scruples (that are more likely to be found in prisons) to do these tasks... And we are even subsidising them through our taxes!! IMHO the world would be far better off without such scamming/cheating/lying online marketeers. --- Don't confuse blog commenting with fake customer reviews. You are only looking for link on a page ranked blog and for the submitter to produce a reasonably intelligent comment that is "on topic" and doesn't look spammy and get instantly deleted. I'm not saying Summit are doing that but its likely because if you want to just spam forums, blogs etc then just automate it with Xrumer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) Don't confuse blog commenting with fake customer reviews. You are only looking for link on a page ranked blog and for the submitter to produce a reasonably intelligent comment that is "on topic" and doesn't look spammy and get instantly deleted. Ah, so these are the assholes whose posts I have to keep deleting from my blog? If so, ****** 'em for being assholes and double ****** 'em for getting the state to lock up workers so they can hire them cheap. Edited February 20, 2012 by MarkG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Ah, so these are the assholes whose posts I have to keep deleting from my blog? If so, ****** 'em for being assholes and double ****** 'em for getting the state to lock up workers so they can hire them cheap. Probably. Give us the URL of your blog and I;'ll get the old lags to take a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffneck Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I disagree with these corporations getting cheap labour from prisons. The work these prisoners should be doing is growing all the fruit , vegetables , meat etc on site making the taxpayer pay less for their meals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 I disagree with these corporations getting cheap labour from prisons. The work these prisoners should be doing is growing all the fruit , vegetables , meat etc on site making the taxpayer pay less for their meals. +1 Prison farms produce a fair bit but could probably do more. What IPs do prisons use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I disagree with these corporations getting cheap labour from prisons. The work these prisoners should be doing is growing all the fruit , vegetables , meat etc on site making the taxpayer pay less for their meals. I would say that is much more socially useful work, the way things are going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonkers Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I would say that is much more socially useful work, the way things are going. Like monks. Prison could start to become a really attractive proposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.