Moving To Germany

[Simon Brown]

I don't get this? French is French in Brussels or Paris!

Next door in Geneva they speak French its the same language

So very wrong, -10 points

[libspero]

You won't need Cantonese to work in Hong Kong if you are in a multinational.

I learnt enough Cantonese to get by in standard situations with a few years of casual evening classes.

For a long term strategy, I'd recommend going with Mandarin which has only four tones rather than nine and will serve you well in China away from HK and Guangdong.

With the influx of mainlanders, you'll find Mandarin becoming more accepted in HK these days.

Interesting post..

After meeting students at Uni who were fluent in both, I decided if I ever decided to learn one it would be Cantonese because the sounds seemed so much more similar to the latin/germanic ones we have. When I tried to copy Mandarin I felt my accent in their language was worse than a bad Chinese one in ours

Very interesting that you found the opposite... though nobody ever told me anything about tones at the time

[swissy_fit]

I don't get this? French is French in Brussels or Paris!

Next door in Geneva they speak French its the same language

The language is the same but the people are different, they're snootier. In Paris you have to get their little in-jokes and jeux de mots before you're accepted, even then you'll never quite be considered on the same level as their oh-so-marvellous selves.

Oh, and you MUST dress in a way that pleases them, this can either be as a typical Englishman (in their mind) or as they do.

And despite their equally sh1t climate you must accept the fact that it's always foggy and rainy in England, they learned it at school so it must be true.

As a young man it's worth a stay of a few months just to remove some of those expensive knickers, but otherwise London over Paris anytime, and Geneva over either of them.

[ZeroSumGame]

Immersion only helps if you already have a good grasp of the language. Foreigners are not eager to talk to you. When it becomes clear you cannot understand them nor they you, they will stop and not bother to talk to you again. You can turn on the TV set, but you still do not understand because they speak so fast. What is far more likely to happen is you will stick with English internet and watch Freesat in English. Your interactions with the locals will be restricted to simple phrases. When they reply, you will not understand. This idea of sitting in a bar talking to the locals to learn the language is garbage. You will sit in a corner by yourself while they gabble to each other.

Gotta disagree. Like a few others up thread I too have an O Level in German. I've worked there twice and hope to do so again. Having been to Deutschland twice this year in addition for ~6 weeks, I've had plenty practice. The easiest place to practice is in a bar full with German people. Don't know how many times people said to me 'you speak good german' or 'quite good german'. I don't . One or two have added just how much they appreciate my attempts to learn the language and that no-one in England can speak or wants to learn.

You've got to persevere and be prepared to get tongue tied.

Unless you've got some sooper-dooper unique IT skills, you'll have to learn the language ( a necessity for consulting positions).

If you've got the slightest notion of a permanent move (like me), then you'll find legal documents an absolute nightmare without an ability to translate. Google translate fails badly with some of these, trust me.

As ever DYOR.

[mightytharg]

I'm 39, have a young family, work in IT, live in England and have no foreign language skills. I'd like to learn German and move to Germany. Has anyone done this and how hard is it to do? Learning a foreign language in your forties to a level that will allow you to apply for jobs seems a tall order. Is it unrealistic? I don't have specific enough IT skills that would allow me to get a job abroad without speaking the language - basically I'm not that big a draw for employers. Even if I could speak fluent German, what are the chances of a German company employing a foreigner instead of a local?

Everyone talks about leaving on this forum, but I've never been optimistic about how practical it is.

Sorry to say, learning German is unpleasant and difficult (even for me and if you've read my posts you'll realise how smart I am).

Most words are pronounced ixch or auhkh. The genders make no sense, girls are neuter for example! When you finally learn a complicated word, it often turns out to to be the English word mis-spelled and pronounced by someone with a respiratory problem.

That said, living abroad is fun and the Krauts remember who won the war and therefore speak English very well.

Still I'd recommend French, Italian or Spanish which are generally much prettier and easier languages spoken by nicer people.

[mightytharg]

diminuitives are neuter.

Is Maadchen a diminuitive?

[Snugglybear]

<snip> Still I'd recommend French, Italian or Spanish which are generally much prettier and easier languages spoken by nicer people. <snip>

I've always found the Romance languages easier, but then I did French and Latin in school. That's how old I am - and it was a comprehensive school, BTW.

But how likely is the OP to get a job anywhere they speak a Romance language, especially without speaking it fluently? Spain's official unemployment rate is over 20%, for instance.

[mightytharg]

But how likely is the OP to get a job anywhere they speak a Romance language, especially without speaking it fluently? Spain's official unemployment rate is over 20%, for instance.

What about in Geneva or Lugano?

[libspero]

But how likely is the OP to get a job anywhere they speak a Romance language, especially without speaking it fluently? Spain's official unemployment rate is over 20%, for instance.

There's always south America.. but I'm not sure how easy it is to get a visa. You'd probably have to get a job with someone like Cemex, then apply for an internal transfer.

[ccc]

There's always south America.. but I'm not sure how easy it is to get a visa. You'd probably have to get a job with someone like Cemex, then apply for an internal transfer.

Was bout to say similar. Not been to Chile in ages but I was very impressed. Stunning country, tidy burds, great weather (Depending where you are), amazing mountains, deserts beaches and the rest of it. Loads of resources as well. And also being a country that was fairly recently under some pretty nasty leadership - likley to be full of people with a lot of get up and go. You tend to find that with countries like this.

Language is a very different type of Spanish IIRC. Think they chop a lot of the words much shorter than 'normal' Spanish ?

No idea how you would go about getting work there though.

[redwine]

The language is the same but the people are different, they're snootier. In Paris you have to get their little in-jokes and jeux de mots before you're accepted, even then you'll never quite be considered on the same level as their oh-so-marvellous selves.

Oh, and you MUST dress in a way that pleases them, this can either be as a typical Englishman (in their mind) or as they do.

And despite their equally sh1t climate you must accept the fact that it's always foggy and rainy in England, they learned it at school so it must be true.

As a young man it's worth a stay of a few months just to remove some of those expensive knickers, but otherwise London over Paris anytime, and Geneva over either of them.

For gods sake Swissy_fit please try to fit in or give it a rest!

Snobs in Paris French womans knickers etc etc

[ccc]

Is Maadchen a diminuitive?

I haven't done German for 18 years. and even then it was 2 years of basic Standard grade (O level).

Even I remember it is spelt with one 'a' and not two.

Not meaning to pick - just if you are telling people German is very difficult to learn - maybe you are just not well served to learning languages...

[sesim]

I would start learning German ASAP, and use as many different resources as you can.. books, cd's, interwebby, intercambio with germans where you are (if there are any) - it keeps it interesting. And get your family to try to do the same.. you can all start right now. She how you all go doing that. You might all hate the language, or love it, which will inspire you to make the move... involve / get the buy in of your whole family if you can, and make it fun, so they become part of the decision.

But equally important is to monitor the situation in the eurozone, and research what is likely to happen if/when countries start defaulting / leaving the eurozone, and to what extent Germany will be on the hook for any of those costs. Or maybe Germany and Holland leave, and get super strong currencies but then lose their export markets.

Germany might be a lot poorer in the next few years (or decades), if she insists on sacrificing her population to pay for the eurozone project to continue by bailing out the poorer countries. These EU pillocks' quest for power knows no bounds.

With any luck, this mad eurozone experiment will collapse within 18 months, after which time you'll all have a bit of German under your belt, and the lie of the land will be a bit clearer, then you can decide whether Germany is a 'go-er' at all.

Good luck.. learning another language can be fun if you can find ways to make it so.

Edit: PS: I had really basic french, but immersed myself in it at the age of 39 by moving there, and I'm conversational with lots of mistakes. And now I'm learning Spanish, and can understand most stuff, but speak badly, but I'm getting there. It's possible - you only really learn a language when you're forced to by circumstance.. your brain goes into another gear.

Edited October 5, 2011 by sesim

[ccc]

Love German Burds.

[libspero]

Was bout to say similar. Not been to Chile in ages but I was very impressed. Stunning country, tidy burds, great weather (Depending where you are), amazing mountains, deserts beaches and the rest of it. Loads of resources as well. And also being a country that was fairly recently under some pretty nasty leadership - likley to be full of people with a lot of get up and go. You tend to find that with countries like this.

Language is a very different type of Spanish IIRC. Think they chop a lot of the words much shorter than 'normal' Spanish ?

No idea how you would go about getting work there though.

South American Spanish is not vastly different from European Spanish.. like American / British English. The Spanish seem to speak with a bit of a lisp.. and they pronounce a V as a V, where as in SA the V is pronounced B.

Until a few years ago it was easy to make a living there with good English and unscrupulous character .. all you had to do was flog time share and condos to feckless tourists. You could make good money even by UK standards. Problem is the tourists no longer have any money or an appetite for over priced holiday villas. Nowadays you would probably need to get a job in a multinational or with a specific skill set and get a transfer. Having said that, I know people over there who are marine surveyors or who have started their own businesses and they are getting by (so it's possible).

[ccc]

South American Spanish is not vastly different from European Spanish.. like American / British English. The Spanish seem to speak with a bit of a lisp.. and they pronounce a V as a V, where as in SA the V is pronounced B.

Until a few years ago it was easy to make a living there with good English and unscrupulous character .. all you had to do was flog time share and condos to feckless tourists. You could make good money even by UK standards. Problem is the tourists no longer have any money or an appetite for over priced holiday villas. Nowadays you would probably need to get a job in a multinational or with a specific skill set and get a transfer. Having said that, I know people over there who are marine surveyors or who have started their own businesses and they are getting by (so it's possible).

Aye can't see how you could just thead over there and make money. Well I can actually but it is rather risky.

You sure about the language ? Been there myself and was told this by people from these places. I assumed they knew what they were talking about !?

I am sure it was Chile or Argentina that was very different to other Spanish. I am sure they can understand each other though. However one is a very different language. Unless they were just having a laugh with me of course.

[South Lorne]

.... work in IT.... I'd like to learn German and move to Germany.....

...is this not what Guitarman from Edinburgh is doing / planning....?....

[Wuluf]

I would have done too but I don't know how to do an umlaut on my keyboard.

"ae" == "ä"

As for the OP, you really don't need German to work in Germany.

Try these guys in FFM http://www.quest-online.de/

[ClunkingFist]

To the OP: it's most definitely doable if you dive in. I'm 33 and recently came back from 2 months in South America; didn't know any Spanish before going. We did two weeks of private lessons at a language school in Lima before heading out: well worth doing as you need both real world experience mixed with some proper tuition. In Peru and Bolivia, and to some extent Chile, they speak Spanish quite clearly and rather slower than your typical Spaniard. Argentina is different; bit more flamboyant and different pronunciation.

But the point is, you absolutely have to immerse yourself, read all the signs, newspapers, listen to the radio, talk to people, and you'll surprise yourself with how much you learn. By the time we left I was understanding airport announcements, for example, without really noticing they were in Spanish. Obviously that's a long way from work standard but half the battle I think is having the confidence to give it a whirl and stick with it.

We'd have a better country if people did vote with their feet more often. Enough people leaving, citing housing costs, might impact policy eventually. Failing that, we'd leave the country impoverished enough to hurt the greedy who remain and wonder why they have no NHS or pension.

[MrPin]

What's all this about Germans? Is it 1938 again?

[The Eagle]

What's all this about Germans? Is it 1938 again?

No, more like 1988-1995 again (when loads of Brits, especially manual workers, went to Germany for work).

[Landagan]

Based on my experiences in Spain.

By far the biggest obstacle you will find to learning the language will be the insistence of everyone you meet to speak English to you.

I'm not sure why it's so hard to combat, but it really is. even down to family level in my experience.

They are forced to learn our language to apply for jobs.

They have all put many years into learning, and quite often you will be the only way they can display that effort, and make it all feel worthwhile.

They have NO concern about your own need to learn their language. Prepare to feel ostracised along these lines.

You will find yourself very popular when speaking English, and very unpopular when not.

So unless you have SERIOUS time to study and study hard, do not assume that you will pick up anything by immersion.

[Snugglybear]

No, more like 1988-1995 again (when loads of Brits, especially manual workers, went to Germany for work).

There was even a fictional television drama made about the above, which ran to four series.

Look up "Auf Wiedersehen Pet" on the interweb.

[Rupert The]

A few years ago, I was in Amsterdam & happened to meet a bunch of IT people (I also work in IT).

In their view, for most IT jobs, speaking English was more important than speaking Dutch.

They even said that if I (as a non-Dutch speaker) & a Dutch national who did not speak English applied for the same job, all other factors being equal, I would get the job.

I checked out a couple of agencies & sure enough, quite a lot of vacancies specified the ability to speak English as a requirement.

I'm not sure how their job market is now though.

[swissy_fit]

For gods sake Swissy_fit please try to fit in or give it a rest!

Snobs in Paris French womans knickers etc etc

I fit in fine, in provincial France or Switzerland. Parisiens and Parisiennes frequently annoy me(despite their beautiful city and beautiful accents which I love), we all have our little failings....