Best Country To Escape A Future Depression?

[alwightchav!]

Well at the expense of wandering off-topic, I'm interested to know how differently you would have behaved if you were in the position of the 'baby-boomer'?

What altruisitic measures would you take to share the wealth you've made with the younger generation? When you've made some money - do you give it away to needy people?.

Sorry but I just don't understand this sniping at people who've made some money because they could. it's just human nature. You've only the right to snipe if you live your values.

So what do you do for charity?

Charity is not the issue here. The issue is extreme greed to the extent of incapacitating the future generations, making money if you can is fine, but when you take FUTURE money to pay for the NOW that is plain wrong and obtuse.

The younger generations need the motivation and carrott you got. Why work if it just substains you and nothing else? Why work are try harder when you are penalsied by higher and higher bills/housing costs/food? Why work to pay your debt ridden super-pensions/cheap housing/cheap energy/free tuition?

The sensible option is to drop out of the workforce post haste i am afraid.

p.s: As for charity work i have worked in mediation (neighbourhood/local community) for approx 2 years and mental health advocacy while studying a couple of years ago and really enjoyed it

[JustYield]

It will undoubtedly be affected by rising sea levels, but no more than GB, and probably less. It is not a flat country, you know.

I know Nearly shat myself on the drive up to the Remarkables.

NZ is on my list, but not yet.

[Joey Buttafueco Jr]

I'm not sure I want to hang around much longer. Are there ANY countries that are economically strong, and will thus avoid a depression?

To avoid a depression I suggest you go here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipanema

Will cheer you up no end

[alwightchav!]

Well at the expense of wandering off-topic, I'm interested to know how differently you would have behaved if you were in the position of the 'baby-boomer'?

What altruisitic measures would you take to share the wealth you've made with the younger generation? When you've made some money - do you give it away to needy people?.

Sorry but I just don't understand this sniping at people who've made some money because they could. it's just human nature. You've only the right to snipe if you live your values.

So what do you do for charity?

[BearGlas]

To go back to the original question:-

This is a question that has been perplexing me and the missus of late. I am an immigrant here (into the UK) myself, been here since the early eighties, but am horrified with what Zanu Labour have done to this once great country and now think it is time to move on.

Logically it should be Canada: English speaking, great healthcare and education, great mineral wealth - very important as resources diminish - any amount of space for agriculture - ideal as food prices increase, great civic pride and safe environment. But at the end of the day it is too logical, and the Canadians are too logical. I have good friends in Toronto and frankly I just find it soooooo boring.

So for me and my family it is looking like France. I know it's not perfect but all these things are a balance.

A word of warning to all would-by emigrants. Have done it once myself I can say that once you make the move there is a danger you won't be happy anywhere because in your new country you will constantly compare it to your old country. Likewise if you subsequently return home you will then compare home with the country you've just left. Having experienced life in two, or more, different countries just adds detail to the endless 'grass is greener' discussions.

[jaydee]

I'm not sure I want to hang around much longer. Are there ANY countries that are economically strong, and will thus avoid a depression?

Middle east - Saudi - Abu Dhabi, Dubai - high salaries and no taxes. Now is the time to go with recruitment riding high on the back of high oil prices.

When there - use your high salary to buy up devastated UK stocks and property - sit this mess out and return when you want to - trouble is you may never want to. Beware also - if you succeed you will be condemned by some no hopers on this site for 'crippling their future'.

We all have freedom of choice - just add in a bit of good judgement - a little courage and good luck and you will escape this miserable isle. Go for it - action is the essence.

[huw]

It will undoubtedly be affected by rising sea levels, but no more than GB, and probably less. It is not a flat country, you know.

Because the magma and lava keeps bubbling up and occasionally goes pop

[huw]

Middle east - Saudi - Abu Dhabi, Dubai - high salaries and no taxes. Now is the time to go with recruitment riding high on the back of high oil prices.

Long term they're probably even more reliant on the oil economy than the rest of us, though; eg Saudi has expanded its population far beyond what it can support with its own food and water resources. I wouldn't want to be caught there when things get ugly -- it would have to be make a killing quickly and then get out to wherever you actually want to be.

[workingnomad]

New Zealand might seem like the promised land but it is way too isolated and filling up fast with people from Asia who are bringing their own culture and ways of doing things (just like the original Europeans did!).

Most educated NZers have run off to Australia where there is more opportunity and better wages / living conditions (they still have to put up with crap TV and terrible supermarkets).

NZ has the highest % of skilled people offshore out of all OECD countries. This should ring alarm bells for anyone with half a brain thinking of going there.

I have spent a lot of time in NZ and it is a great place to holiday, travel but living there can be very subdued and even a little boring, with no quick weekend breaks anywhere either (and that was living in the biggest city!).

Having said that I would say go for it if anyone is interested in trying out a new country. I respect these people much more than the whingers who sit on trains to London everyday like zombies with their copies of the Daily Mail, moaning about the country and not having the balls to get off their arses and do something about it.

Edited August 31, 2008 by workingnomad

[jaydee]

Long term they're probably even more reliant on the oil economy than the rest of us, though; eg Saudi has expanded its population far beyond what it can support with its own food and water resources. I wouldn't want to be caught there when things get ugly -- it would have to be make a killing quickly and then get out to wherever you actually want to be.

Yes Saudi Arabia is reliant on oil - basically it's all they've got - but aren't they lucky - 21% of global supply and (relatively) easily accessible. Water is available through aquifers or desalination plants and food is available in abundance and unlike us they are not shackled to a failed financial services industry. True there are downsides - but if as an expat you work for the national oil company or British aerospace you will be treated very well - security and medical care is first rate. Also - the cost of living is very low. Saudi Arabia pays better than its neighbours and there are fewer distractions to splash the cash on.

If you have to work for someone else then you may as well get paid well and as a bonus the Saudis are generally a very hospitable people.

[okaycuckoo]

1642-1651, the English Civil War.

1688, actually. An Orange king leading lots of German and Dutch soldiers.

[1929crash]

1688, actually. An Orange king leading lots of German and Dutch soldiers.

It was called a revolution, but it was more like a squabble within the ruling elite. No bloodshed, or hardly any. and nothing at all on the scale of modern revolutions like the French in 1789 or the Russians in 1917.

[polkadotspeedo]

New Zealand might seem like the promised land but it is way too isolated and filling up fast with people from Asia who are bringing their own culture and ways of doing things (just like the original Europeans did!).

And what is wrong with that?

You speak of Asians as if they are pests spreading like wild fire...

[huw]

Yes Saudi Arabia is reliant on oil - basically it's all they've got - but aren't they lucky - 21% of global supply and (relatively) easily accessible. Water is available through aquifers or desalination plants and food is available in abundance and unlike us they are not shackled to a failed financial services industry. True there are downsides - but if as an expat you work for the national oil company or British aerospace you will be treated very well - security and medical care is first rate. Also - the cost of living is very low. Saudi Arabia pays better than its neighbours and there are fewer distractions to splash the cash on.

If you have to work for someone else then you may as well get paid well and as a bonus the Saudis are generally a very hospitable people.

All fine as long as the global economy is ticking along, meaning there's a system that lets them trade food and desalination plant for oil. But in the context of a thread such as this, "best country to escape a future depression", current assumptions of stability and prosperity may no longer hold.

[xux42]

All fine as long as the global economy is ticking along, meaning there's a system that lets them trade food and desalination plant for oil. But in the context of a thread such as this, "best country to escape a future depression", current assumptions of stability and prosperity may no longer hold.

Enough with the finely balanced arguments - which country or countries, without impending economic or political turmoil, would welcome a family of four with a couple of hundred k sterling, british passports and useful skills - seasoned IT Pro, experienced University administrator and 2 bright, hard working lads?

HPC is a great source of info. but right now I'd be grateful for solutions rather than detailed and clever analysis of problems.

Maybe I'm paranoid but I have a growing feeling there are people on this forum with 'escape pods' who are not sharing because they know what they have up their sleeve would not work if everybody did it....

[1929crash]

All fine as long as the global economy is ticking along, meaning there's a system that lets them trade food and desalination plant for oil. But in the context of a thread such as this, "best country to escape a future depression", current assumptions of stability and prosperity may no longer hold.

Absolutely. Sd A's got a growing pool of unemployed men who are only too willing to listen to the religious radicals.

And as for oil, youc an't drink it. Sd A's got b***** all water!

[Wires 74]

To go back to the original question:-

Logically it should be Canada: English speaking, great healthcare and education, great mineral wealth - very important as resources diminish -

Isn`t the Canadian healthcare scheme in decline -certainly they have no national drug plan ( drugs can cost a fortune ) and no free dental treatment for under-16`S and the same arguments are in the Canadian press ref their Education system which is very variable.

One thing I do notice as well is that the working practices seem to be very behind the times - only two weeks holiday a year and a very dicatorial style of man-management .

Taxation is similar to the UK -38% for high -earners

Edited August 31, 2008 by Wires 74

[Wires 74]

`

Edited August 31, 2008 by Wires 74

[Wuluf]

Absolutely. Sd A's got a growing pool of unemployed men who are only too willing to listen to the religious radicals.

And as for oil, youc an't drink it. Sd A's got b***** all water!

Brazil, Russia, Ghana, Sweden, Switzerland or Canada

[jaydee]

All fine as long as the global economy is ticking along, meaning there's a system that lets them trade food and desalination plant for oil. But in the context of a thread such as this, "best country to escape a future depression", current assumptions of stability and prosperity may no longer hold.

If a country has energy and fresh water - and Saudi Arabia has both - then it can survive.

The aspirational and perhaps somewhat disaffected youth of SA are an issue sure - but so is yob culture - knife crime etc on our increasingly unsafe streets. Saudization of jobs is well under way. The statement 'Current assumptions of stability - and prosperity may no longer hold' - applies globally. SA was coping with its population growth when the oil price was $35/barrel and more recently - when oil was ticking along at $75/barrel (and regarded as high) - life looked ever more rosy. If oil dropped back to $35 it may be a problem - but it appears unlikely as china and india continue to grow and trade with each other. The decoupling with the US economy is also well under way.

What is real is now - SA is a country relatively untainted by the credit crunch and sitting on the biggest oil reserves on earth while the UK is sliding ever more downhill - no industry - next to no oil - and its glorious financial base in ruins.

[jonpo]

I'll throw some ideas out there

Quatar 0% income tax, richest country in the world GDP per capita at PPP,

Dubai similar thing really.

HK, China but like england

Singapore, assuming people still trade internationally....

[jaydee]

Absolutely. Sd A's got a growing pool of unemployed men who are only too willing to listen to the religious radicals.

And as for oil, youc an't drink it. Sd A's got b***** all water!

Not so.

Generally the youth want western trappings - and resent the impact of religious zealots - but I agree there will always be some - a minority who will be swayed. Poverty is often is the catalyst for radicalization - prosperity (in the form of higher oil prices and jobs) tends to reverse it.

As for water - it falls in the mountains in the south west of the country and finds its way eventually to the plains of the east -surfacing via fresh water aquifers. Tourism is encouraged in parts of the coastal west also. Families are catered for quite extravagantly - living in a westernised town - or compound in substantial air conditioned accomodation - generally at a very low rent - that's not as confining as it may sound - access to the vibrant eclectic cities by car or provided coach is easy and stress free. The option of living in the local community is also available. Generally unsuitable for families with older children as there school system isn't compatible - but there are usually generous subsidies for out of kingdom private education.

IMHO - the earning years are too short and too precious not to be fully exploited - certainly too precious to be wasted in the UK - but of course it's personal choices and trade offs - no decision will be perfect - just that some decisions will - in a financial sense at least - be more profitable than others.

[Smedge]

Saudi Arabia is completely out for me because of the apalling human rights record there, and I'm dismayed that, on a forum where state abuses are of such (laudible) concern, no-one else has mentioned it as an issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia

A mate of mine lives in Sweden and he loves both the society and the Swedes. I had no idea about the right of residency, I'll be looking into that...

Edited August 31, 2008 by jmoid

[MarkG]

Isn`t the Canadian healthcare scheme in decline -certainly they have no national drug plan ( drugs can cost a fortune )

True, but companies tend to give employees health insurance coverage for most prescription costs; I'd say that tax-funded healthcare in Canada is likely to survive much longer than the NHS precisely because it's more limited. Certainly I get full coverage for prescription costs, plus free life and travel insurance from my job.

One of the big problems here seems to be lack of doctors and nurses willing to work in out of the way places; not everyone is eager to live in a small town that's eight hours by road to the nearest city, or up North where the temperatures get to -60C or below in the winter.

the same arguments are in the Canadian press ref their Education system which is very variable.

True, I've heard some of the same comments about grade inflation and 'self esteem' here as in the UK. I think in general the tax-funded schools are still better though.

One thing I do notice as well is that the working practices seem to be very behind the times - only two weeks holiday a year and a very dicatorial style of man-management.

Maybe. I get three weeks a year, but there's a public holiday every few weeks too, which adds up over a year. I can easily trade overtime for more time off though, so it's not as bad as it may sound; more to the point, I actually get paid overtime here, whereas in the UK I was expected to work whatever hours I had to in order to get the job done.

Taxation is similar to the UK -38% for high -earners

I pay substantially less tax here than I did in the UK; Canada is still a high tax nation, but 'VAT' is much lower, petrol tax is much lower, and there's no 'national insurance' to hide income tax rises. Don't forget that as well as that 40% income tax in the UK there's a percent or two of NI, and then the employer has to pay _another_ 12% or so of NI that you never even see on your payslip.

Plus prices are generally 20-50% lower, so the money goes much further than in ripoff Britain; for example, I bought a digital SLR here earlier in the year, and the full price from a camera store in the mall including 10% 'VAT' was lower than the pre-VAT price from an online store in the UK.

That said, if natural gas is going to run out over the next couple of decades, the long term here might not be so promising.

Edit: And to get back more on a housing-related topics, 'stamp duty' here is 0.3% and our 'council tax' is supposed to drop by 10% next year.

Edited August 31, 2008 by MarkG

[Ellie]

Just find a place with great looking women who have none of the attitude of many here - Brazil, South America, Thailand, etc.

Err, maybe it's you with the attitude TMT? U fancy a docile bird who won't argue with you huh?

As for where to go - I reckon it's not so much the country as the lifestyle - anywhere rural as long as you don't mind not having running water or electricity to plug into the internet and you'll be ok -the way to escape a depression is not to partake in it. Mainly that means not gving a 4XXX about money though..shack up in a van in the middle of nowhere, grow some veg and stay away from the bright lights.