How Can The Debt Be Repaid......

[Injin]

If this strategy works once and unreal debts are removed how likely is it that you will get any credit in future.

Very likely.

You take a different approach with the credit reference agencies.

Saying you are a dead beat when no court action has been filed, no evidence provided....libel.

[The 4 Horsemen]

Very likely.

You take a different approach with the credit reference agencies.

Saying you are a dead beat when no court action has been filed, no evidence provided....libel.

So basically credit reference agencies have got libellous information about you because it hasn’t gone to court and there is no evidence to back it up. Then do Equifax et al just remove the information thus giving you back the ability to gain credit. Sorry but I’m not really brave enough to test this out empirically, guess I have been sucked into this you must keep your credit file in order or you’ll be fooked in the future!

Edit: missing N

Edited June 22, 2008 by The 4 Horsemen

[Injin]

So basically credit reference agencies have got libellous information about you because it hasn’t gone to court and there is no evidence to back it up. Then do Equifax et al just remove the information thus giving you back the ability to gain credit. Sorry but I’m not really brave enough to test this out empirically, guess I have been sucked into this you must keep your credit file in order or you’ll be fooked in the future!

Edit: missing N

What I did was write to them from the position I assumed there had been some mistake that needed sorting out. From that vantage point I asked for the proof that the bank in question (HSBC) had sent them so I could locate the individual responsible for maligning me in that way to pursuse action against them....

I really shouldn't have wasted my time with it. I left the system completely. I don't have a bank account, credit card or any of that shit these days and am much better for it.

[The 4 Horsemen]

What I did was write to them from the position I assumed there had been some mistake that needed sorting out. From that vantage point I asked for the proof that the bank in question (HSBC) had sent them so I could locate the individual responsible for maligning me in that way to pursuse action against them....

I really shouldn't have wasted my time with it. I left the system completely. I don't have a bank account, credit card or any of that shit these days and am much better for it.

II you are employed, employers will always want to pay you with BACS so it difficult to circumvent the banking system completely.

[Injin]

II you are employed, employers will always want to pay you with BACS so it difficult to circumvent the banking system completely.

I've had the discussion before about being paid with legal tender. Basically you can opt to get paid in cash by insisting upon it but it will probably cause more trouble than it's worth for most people.

As it happens I was self employed at the time and am now shacked up with my stash, my food and a few other bits and bobs for a bit and just do a few bits and bobs for people I know and trust to pay the last remaining bill I have - the food. Now is probably the best time in history to be taking time off. We'll never see this level of affluence, peace or social order again in my lifetime I would imagine and as the state is about to catastrophically fail, I can't see there being pensions for the boomers etc either.

Head down, feet up etc etc before the fun starts, you know it makes sense.

[The 4 Horsemen]

I've had the discussion before about being paid with legal tender. Basically you can opt to get paid in cash by insisting upon it but it will probably cause more trouble than it's worth for most people.

As it happens I was self employed at the time and am now shacked up with my stash, my food and a few other bits and bobs for a bit and just do a few bits and bobs for people I know and trust to pay the last remaining bill I have - the food. Now is probably the best time in history to be taking time off. We'll never see this level of affluence, peace or social order again in my lifetime I would imagine and as the state is about to catastrophically fail, I can't see there being pensions for the boomers etc either.

Head down, feet up etc etc before the fun starts, you know it makes sense.

Over the next few years people will realise what is important and these are basic human needs not all the fluff that surrounds it. I have been saying this to colleagues at work for the months, but no one listens.

[mrcutegurlzz]

with guns

but guns are illegal

we dont have the right to defend ourselves in this country.

[insidetrack]

but guns are illegal

we dont have the right to defend ourselves in this country.

Only handguns. Rifles and shot guns are still available. If you want a machine gun you will probably have to make your own. www.homegunsmith.com

[Bloo Loo]

I've had the discussion before about being paid with legal tender. Basically you can opt to get paid in cash by insisting upon it but it will probably cause more trouble than it's worth for most people.

As it happens I was self employed at the time and am now shacked up with my stash, my food and a few other bits and bobs for a bit and just do a few bits and bobs for people I know and trust to pay the last remaining bill I have - the food. Now is probably the best time in history to be taking time off. We'll never see this level of affluence, peace or social order again in my lifetime I would imagine and as the state is about to catastrophically fail, I can't see there being pensions for the boomers etc either.

Head down, feet up etc etc before the fun starts, you know it makes sense.

if you send me your body sizes in cms please, Ill be happy to make you a bespoke sandwich board.

I have a nice range of standard "the end is nigh" boards, but, for you, you can have whatever you like

[Injin]

if you send me your body sizes in cms please, Ill be happy to make you a bespoke sandwich board.

I have a nice range of standard "the end is nigh" boards, but, for you, you can have whatever you like

I'll take a cheese and ham please. (Oh, and lettuce!)

[Far Out Bear]

Discuss.

What does it matter?

You may as well ask, how can the oceans ever be full if a lot of the water is in the sky and flowing down the rivers.

To ask such a question is to have a very confused, faulty concept of credit.

[Far Out Bear]

II you are employed, employers will always want to pay you with BACS so it difficult to circumvent the banking system completely.

The banking system of technologies and services are NOT at fault. The fault is at the money source - government. I wish people would focus and not just say stupid things like banks create money out of thin air and try to have sex with your grandfather.

[Injin]

The banking system of technologies and services are NOT at fault. The fault is at the money source - government. I wish people would focus and not just say stupid things like banks create money out of thin air and try to have sex with your grandfather.

Banks do create money out of thin air.

Or rather, they let their customers create money out of thin air and then lie to them about the procedure.

[Far Out Bear]

Banks do create money out of thin air.

Or rather, they let their customers create money out of thin air and then lie to them about the procedure.

No they don't. Banks borrow money and they lend money.

[Injin]

No they don't. Banks borrow money and they lend money.

No they don't.

Banks do two thionsg -

1) Accept deposits.

2) Accept promissory notes that access credit with the central bank.

The two are not related, save in the ratio that the banks need to keep some fiat currency on hand to maintain the myth that they are.

When you walk into a bank and take out a "loan" then you sign a promissory note. All modern money is unbacked, so you have promised to provide promises to provide promises in exchange for promises. The second that the form is signed, the bank adds that amount to their assets and then returns that amount to you.

If you know this and can ask a few simple questions, the lie is revealed and you owe nothing. If you are not in the know the bank then claims the full amount of the money you gave them plus interest and keeps it. So if you take a "loan" out of £10,000 then you give the bank £10,000, then another £10,000 plus interest. Not a bad deal for he banker, eh?

Edited June 23, 2008 by Injin

[Bloo Loo]

No they don't. Banks borrow money and they lend money.

yes they do.

They turn government bonds into FIAT.

They can also turn other assets into FIAT.

Thats what they do. They are money factories.

[right_freds_dead]

i would say, whatever the debt are - there someone elses to pay.

so thats why inflation will do the job for them and make my savings worth less each year as the debt erodes down in real value.

so i bought gold to avoid their control over my money.

[piece of paper]

yes they do.

They turn government bonds into FIAT.

They can also turn other assets into FIAT.

Thats what they do. They are money factories.

Given their rather enviable business model, it is amazing that they have been able to get themselves into difficulties!

p-o-p

[Injin]

Given their rather enviable business model, it is amazing that they have been able to get themselves into difficulties!

p-o-p

It relies on an increasing amount of suckers who both fall for the fraud and who try and are in some way able to pay for their foolishness. As usual the bankers have run out of decent people who will try to honour their cfraudulent "ontracts" before they have run out of suckers.

[Far Out Bear]

God help us all. You guys have fallen for the leftist argument.

Well, if banks can create money, why did Northern Rock fail?

I understand that here at HPC, we do not allow the facts to get in the way of our socialist revolutionary ideology.

The supply of MONEY is dictated by the central bank (which is simply an arm of the treasury) and the money supply exists as e-deposits at the central bank or in notes and coins in circulation.

The rest of us, including banks, issue promises to pay money. We CANNOT CREATE MONEY and NEITHER CAN THE COMMERCIAL BANKS.

And just because a bank lends money+interest and then 'declares' the total as an asset on a balance sheet, does not constitute money creation. Anyone can claim they hold assets to any notional value they like.... Try selling them to find out how much money you will really get.

The stuff you guys talk about is in DIRECT contention with what is actually taking place 'ie, the credit crunch'

Let's deal in facts hey?

Edited June 23, 2008 by Far Out Bear

[R K]

If this strategy works once and unreal debts are removed how likely is it that you will get any credit in future.

It is actually more straighforward than that.

You fill in a form telling the banks you can't pay back their imaginary money.

A judge stamps it for you.

The banks reset the numbers in their computer to zero for you.

In order to introduce an element of disincentive into the system (otherwise everyone would do it!) the banks, via the reference agencies, won't give you more imaginary money for 6 years, then they start again. If they didn't start again they would ultimately have no new imaginary debtors and so the system would collapse.

Indeed, if everyone who had an imaginary debt filled in a form at the same time the banks would disappear overnight along with our current system, but social conventions mitigate against it happening.

[Objective Developer]

The total money supply in notes and coins is around £60billion, of which around £55bn is held by banks. All the other money is PC numbers and only exists on bank PC screens.

The rest is in wallets and teapots etc up and down the country.

If the banks stop giving out both types in new loans, how can anyone repay the old debts?

Money in this case is just a token for future time and effort. What you are saying is essentially correct in absolute terms, but the banks don’t really want the money, they want the time that you need to put in to try and make the money.

In the most basic sense, what the banks have given out is the ability to acquire that which has not yet been earned, and in return they want the product of your future labour, be what ever it may.

[Injin]

God help us all. You guys have fallen for the leftist argument.

Well, if banks can create money, why did Northern Rock fail?

Because unlike fiat currency/legal tender no one has to accept bank moneyand people stopped doing so.

I understand that here at HPC, we do not allow the facts to get in the way of our socialist revolutionary ideology.

The supply of MONEY is dictated by the central bank (which is simply an arm of the treasury) and the money supply exists as e-deposits at the central bank or in notes and coins in circulation.

97% of all money is created by the commercial banks according to the BoE.

The rest of us, including banks, issue promises to pay money. We CANNOT CREATE MONEY and NEITHER CAN THE COMMERCIAL BANKS.

And just because a bank lends money+interest and then 'declares' the total as an asset on a balance sheet, does not constitute money creation. Anyone can claim they hold assets to any notional value they like.... Try selling them to find out how much money you will really get.

Anyone can make money. Unlike legal tender/fiat no one has to accept that money. If people accept it then fair enough. If they dont, that's also fine. Banks get into trouble when peopel stop accepting their e-money and paper money accounting slips and want actual cash instead. (Because the banks make sure that the two are conflated in the minds of Joe Public.)

The stuff you guys talk about is in DIRECT contention with what is actually taking place 'ie, the credit crunch'

Let's deal in facts hey?

My facts are 100% accurate. A credit crunch occurs when people stop commercial accepting bank money credit money as payment.

[Injin]

Money in this case is just a token for future time and effort. What you are saying is essentially correct in absolute terms, but the banks don’t really want the money, they want the time that you need to put in to try and make the money.

In the most basic sense, what the banks have given out is the ability to acquire that which has not yet been earned, and in return they want the product of your future labour, be what ever it may.

Right, so the people running the banking system want the bust part of the boom and bust cycle.

This means great depression 2 is planned.

[Injin]

It is actually more straighforward than that.

You fill in a form telling the banks you can't pay back their imaginary money.

A judge stamps it for you.

The banks reset the numbers in their computer to zero for you.

In order to introduce an element of disincentive into the system (otherwise everyone would do it!) the banks, via the reference agencies, won't give you more imaginary money for 6 years, then they start again. If they didn't start again they would ultimately have no new imaginary debtors and so the system would collapse.

Indeed, if everyone who had an imaginary debt filled in a form at the same time the banks would disappear overnight along with our current system, but social conventions mitigate against it happening.

Why make ourself bankrupt over fictitious "debt"?

Just ask a few questions and it gets wiped out anyway.