Students Suffer Graduate Jobs Shortage

[symo]

Can i ask a question here!!

Do you have to have a degree to be a P.E Teacher?

I always wanted to be a P.E Teracher but 4 years ago when i had to make the decision of University i just decided that it was not financially sensible to do it!! A majority of my friends did and last i heard my mate was working in Boots chemist.

Anyway, although a keyworker that i'am i still have the desire to be a P.E Teacher, but again i refuse to train and get myself in £20,000 debt for four years just to tell kids to run around a field!!

Does anyone know of any Schemes that you can do where you learn to teach on the job without having a degree in your back pocket?!

Cheers

Start asking about "teaching assistant" posts.

[Furby]

Interesting thread.

My tuppence worth - i occasionally spend some time teaching undergraduates on a consultancy basis in what is quite a specialist field with a relatively high ratio of mature students .

What i have noticed over the last 5 years is that the younger students just do not have the ability to think or apply themselves to any task that requires real effort. Now this is a generalisation and there are certainly exceptions but it is more the norm than not. What they expect is an easy ride, to be spoon fed answers and then walk away with a 1st. When i was at university my memory was that we actually wanted to be there and were relatively excited about it, bad students dropped out or were asked to leave. This is not what i see now.

I also see graduates coming into the workforce without basic literacy and numeracy skills. How can it be right that you can have a degree but can't even count or construct basic sentances?

The world has gone mad. I could be eric pebble....

F

[Guest An Bearin Bui]

have you invented a new IQ test? someones intelligence is directly proportional to how they spell on a net forum?

im pretty sure im in the top 10% if not higher.

got 3As and a B at a-levels. Math, F-Math, Physics, Chem.

did physics at university

Speak 3 languages fluently

Amongst other things

Do you really speak three languages fluently? Which ones and how long did you spend living in the countries of the languages? You can't learn a language to fluency without having lived in the country in question or having a parent who raised you speaking that language. If you grew up in England, had a Spanish father and a French mother and lived in Germany for five years then I would believe your claim that you speak e.g. Spanish, French and German fluently. Otherwse, you're lying.

Anyone who speaks languages fluently (as I do) is usually very careful about spelling and grammar as they have had to learn it to become fluent in another language. Your spelling and grammar is very sloppy so it seems unlikely to me that you have ever studied languages. Or do you mean that you speak three languages fluently by British standards i.e. you know how to say "Ciao, bella - come stai" in Italian and "Ou est le restaurant? J'ai faim" in French. Coupled with "Achtung, achtung, du Schweinhund" in fake-TV German.

[Optobear]

Oh, for heaven's ... I've been saying for years that there aren't any graduate jobs, largely because *ahem* there aren't very many jobs at all. And there aren't many jobs because the employer pool has shrunk to a) the City and public services. Because we don't make stuff. Or do stuff. Or set up stuff. Like businesses. Or industries.

I do, however, think most young people should get some sort of degree these days, BUT (before you all pounce on me), this is because a university education, in my opinion, is the only way that young people can attain anywhere near the level of knowledge and understanding of the world that most people used to have in their late teens sixty years ago.

Degrees are the new A'levels, and they are even slipping from that benchmark.

Interestingly, I had a conversation with my young cousin about two months ago. He had no idea that as a arts and humanities graduate, his degree would add little to his future earning potential, and his starting salary would be around £14K -- and that he would be lucky to ever earn over £26K pa in an employed role.

I too think that degrees are worthwhile. This discussion has almost entirely focused on the economic benefits, while there are clearly many other benefits. There are obvious cultural benefits, but also societal benefits. Given the appalling things that humans have proved capable of perpetrating over history, I do believe that education is necessary, and leads to a more tolerant and humane society. If the price of avoiding genocide or religious strife is society funding "bums on seats" in economically worthless courses, then I can see some merit.

[Gone baby gone]

Can i ask a question here!!

Do you have to have a degree to be a P.E Teacher?

I always wanted to be a P.E Teracher but 4 years ago when i had to make the decision of University i just decided that it was not financially sensible to do it!! A majority of my friends did and last i heard my mate was working in Boots chemist.

Anyway, although a keyworker that i'am i still have the desire to be a P.E Teacher, but again i refuse to train and get myself in £20,000 debt for four years just to tell kids to run around a field!!

Does anyone know of any Schemes that you can do where you learn to teach on the job without having a degree in your back pocket?!

Cheers

They used to have a scheme in England (early 2000s) when they were more desperate for teachers, but this appears to have been withdrawn. You're out of luck I'm afraid mate.

[DrGUID]

I work in higher education. Our most popular degrees for UK applicants are things like theatre/film studies.

Many of our IT/engineering degrees have applicant numbers in the single figures. Across the country physics and chemistry departments are closing. The IT industry wobbled after the dot com crash, but recession or no recession, the skill shortages are really starting to bite hard.

[symo]

Off topic but very funny

PE teacher :

[crash2006]

When i did my degree there were no 1st, one or two 2.1, infact because it was so hard they terminated the degree, only 3 universities in the country do that degree now.

Edited March 11, 2008 by crash2006

[meow]

for me university is more that just getting a degree at the end of you course. in the 3 years at uni you develop and grow so much as a person - just the experience of it opens you mind up to so many new things and ideas.

a lot of people think some of the degrees are not good enough, however quite often the subject matter you are studying isnt important, unless its a specific qualification such as an accountant or a lawyer. a university develops your all round skills such as analysis, critical thinking, team work, creativity, and forces you to start to use your own head and question things rather than recite what youve read in a book.

fun-wise, its arguably the best 3 years you will ever have.

the cleverest graduates will always still be there getting top marks however, for the average person it still devleops a person way beyond what you do at A- level.

personally i think there should be some form of education to keep going throughout your life, even if its just a small amount because it keeps you connected to the system, and you never stop learning.

aside from the education, you do grow as a person once youve been to university.

In essence what you're saying is university also provides "life skills" for the want of a better term, and makes you grow up, but doesn't vocational training and/or getting a sodding job do the same thing?!

It does look like the main reason behind flooding the higher education system was to stop people cluttering up the job figures, but more than that, making them pay for the priviledge.

I ask again, why aren't we encouraging more vocational training and manufacturing in this country!?!?!

[Fancypants]

Some bright spark also pointed out that - in addition to keeping youts off the unemployment register - debt-funded tertiary education also has the neat effect of offloading training costs from employer to employee (with a nice cut for the usurers too).

The fact that that training is proving to be pretty poor will be the reason that this system fails.

[dissident junk]

I also see graduates coming into the workforce without basic literacy and numeracy skills. How can it be right that you can have a degree but can't even count or construct basic sentences?

You would not believe how bad it really is. I work in publishing and content creation, and I have to teach academics about the passive voice these days. The graduates are useless. They cannot write properly whatsoever, even the Oxbridgers.

The effect of the decline in basic English skills has now begun to filter through culture. We now have books winning awards that have significant structural issues, and nobody seems to notice the lack of narrative clarity.

I despair.

[cells]

Do you really speak three languages fluently? Which ones and how long did you spend living in the countries of the languages? You can't learn a language to fluency without having lived in the country in question or having a parent who raised you speaking that language. If you grew up in England, had a Spanish father and a French mother and lived in Germany for five years then I would believe your claim that you speak e.g. Spanish, French and German fluently. Otherwse, you're lying.

Anyone who speaks languages fluently (as I do) is usually very careful about spelling and grammar as they have had to learn it to become fluent in another language. Your spelling and grammar is very sloppy so it seems unlikely to me that you have ever studied languages. Or do you mean that you speak three languages fluently by British standards i.e. you know how to say "Ciao, bella - come stai" in Italian and "Ou est le restaurant? J'ai faim" in French. Coupled with "Achtung, achtung, du Schweinhund" in fake-TV German.

both my parents are tri-lingual. Have also lived in another country for 4 and a bit years

[Optobear]

I work in higher education. Our most popular degrees for UK applicants are things like theatre/film studies.

Many of our IT/engineering degrees have applicant numbers in the single figures. Across the country physics and chemistry departments are closing. The IT industry wobbled after the dot com crash, but recession or no recession, the skill shortages are really starting to bite hard.

Not disagreeing about the lack of candidates in hard subjects, nor with skills shortages. But I'll pick up on physics departments closing across the country. I thought it was only Reading that had closed? They are all chronically underfunded - and physics will be an important subject with more nuclear replacing fossil fuels at some point in the future.

The issue is more about whether fresh closures will come after the RAE is announced. That must be resisted!

Optobear

[cells]

As far as I can see the whole "50% of people into University" scam was designed to reduce the youth unemployment statistics which plague most governments.

your Gorden brown

you have two choices

do nothing. Millions of kids aged 16-22 end up claiming benifits and housing costing you BILLIONS

or

you scam them into taking on 20k debt each, recieving no benifits, and spending mooney into your economy.

not only do you save BILLIONS, they take on debt and spend it!!

not a hard choice for a socilist

[meow]

Some bright spark also pointed out that - in addition to keeping youts off the unemployment register - debt-funded tertiary education also has the neat effect of offloading training costs from employer to employee (with a nice cut for the usurers too).

The fact that that training is proving to be pretty poor will be the reason that this system fails.

Which bright spark might that have been?

*interested*

[cells]

Not disagreeing about the lack of candidates in hard subjects, nor with skills shortages. But I'll pick up on physics departments closing across the country. I thought it was only Reading that had closed? They are all chronically underfunded - and physics will be an important subject with more nuclear replacing fossil fuels at some point in the future.

The issue is more about whether fresh closures will come after the RAE is announced. That must be resisted!

Optobear

dont worry, the goverment will use biologists , just like in schools

[Fancypants]

Which bright spark might that have been?

*interested*

can't remember with 100% certainty, but I suspect it may well have been OnlyMe. If not, then fulsome apologies to the poster who did point it out.

[alexw]

Oh, for heaven's ... I've been saying for years that there aren't any graduate jobs, largely because *ahem* there aren't very many jobs at all. And there aren't many jobs because the employer pool has shrunk to a) the City and public services. Because we don't make stuff. Or do stuff. Or set up stuff. Like businesses. Or industries.

I do, however, think most young people should get some sort of degree these days, BUT (before you all pounce on me), this is because a university education, in my opinion, is the only way that young people can attain anywhere near the level of knowledge and understanding of the world that most people used to have in their late teens sixty years ago.

Degrees are the new A'levels, and they are even slipping from that benchmark.

Interestingly, I had a conversation with my young cousin about two months ago. He had no idea that as a arts and humanities graduate, his degree would add little to his future earning potential, and his starting salary would be around £14K -- and that he would be lucky to ever earn over £26K pa in an employed role.

Thats because there is so much more profit to be made by employers by shipping the jobs to eastern europe or chindia. Then re-importing the finished goods. They however haven't thought through to the fact that we as a country can no longer afford what they are trying to sell us as a result of the outsourcing, etc. The sponge is squeezed dry folks.

The graph here says it all.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...t&p=1004412

[iLegallyBlonde]

A close friend of mine's daughter has decided not to go down the University route and train to be an electrician and guess what, the course and the boxes she needs to tick to qualify is three years long and she'll be in an equal amount of debt.

This government is determined that the youth of today will be studying, rather than working one way or another, probably because the truth is there aren't any jobs available at all to 16/17 year olds.

[alexw]

I work in higher education. Our most popular degrees for UK applicants are things like theatre/film studies.

Many of our IT/engineering degrees have applicant numbers in the single figures. Across the country physics and chemistry departments are closing. The IT industry wobbled after the dot com crash, but recession or no recession, the skill shortages are really starting to bite hard.

The reason for that is that generally the pay and career structures for these are lousy relative to the level of difficulty. If your smart enough to obtain a Bachelors and particularly a masters or PhD in these fields, then your also smart enough to be able to enter careers which are better paid and provide long term prospects. If after graduation the careers are poor, then the students will avoid those subjects.

[fluffy666]

have you invented a new IQ test? someones intelligence is directly proportional to how they spell on a net forum?

The ability to express yourself coherently in a written format IS a significant measure of intelligence. The odd typo isn't a problem, the systematic inability to form sentances, use punctuation or develop an argument is.

im pretty sure im in the top 10% if not higher.

got 3As and a B at a-levels. Math, F-Math, Physics, Chem.

did physics at university

Speak 3 languages fluently

Amongst other things

I've found that on an internet forum, telling people your qualifications isn't a good idea for obvious reasons. Do you agree with the idea that the more As at A level you get, the more weight your arguments carry?

[symo]

My advice to anyone going to university these days.

Get an engineering degree, foxtrot oscar to Brazil, Australia and New Zealand and ignore any letters from the Student loans companies.

[Greenenvy]

The job situation for graduates is no worse than it was before the major university expansion of the 1990's. The economy might be a great big Ponzi scheme, but there are currently still lots of jobs around. The reason everyone's complaining is the debts they've accrued while studying. The average graduate will ultimately earn some kind of premium over the average non-graduate, but their debts, time out of the housing market, and foregone earnings while studying pretty much wipe this out.

If they also did a non-vocational degree at an "unfashionable" ex-Poly...well, I hope they enjoyed themselves.

Also, can someone stop telling students that spending a year on a beach in Thailand after they graduate will look good on their CV. We aren't impressed by what you have learned on your holidays.

Edited March 11, 2008 by Greenenvy

[chichi]

because the truth is there aren't any jobs available at all to 16/17 year olds.

*coughs* army

I'm surprised they've not given the army a bit more of a push as a job creation scheme....

Although having two wars on the go tends to put people off joining up.

[iLegallyBlonde]

*coughs* army

I'm surprised they've not given the army a bit more of a push as a job creation scheme....

Although having two wars on the go tends to put people off joining up.

Actually even the army isn't that appealing because what the hell do you do when you finish the 4 years service ? Plenty of my lil brothers friends joined, have had the life of reily for the last 5 years, even saved a bit and guess what they now can't buy a house, there isn't a lot of call for a sniper specialist in Liverpool, believe it or not (some may disagree).