Realistbear Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle3208761.ece From Times OnlineJanuary 18, 2008 Oil falls below $90 mark on US slump fears Oil prices fall and Asian markets suffer heavy losses as fears of US recession take toll on Wall Street stocks Angela "Angie" Jameson World oil prices have fallen below the $90 a barrel level in Asian trading amid fears that demand for energy will be blunted by a US economic slowdown. The prospect of a full-blown recession has pulled crude oil back from a record level above $100 a barrel that it hit on January 3 to below $90. I paid 1.049 yesterday in Stratford-on-Avon. Diesel was 1.109. Edited January 18, 2008 by Realistbear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realistbear Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle3207311.ece The TimesJanuary 18, 2008 World not running out of oil, say experts Carl Mortished, World Business Editor Doom-laden forecasts that world oil supplies are poised to fall off the edge of a cliff are wide of the mark, according to leading oil industry experts who gave warning that human factors, not geology, will drive the oil market. I heard a story the other day that research is ongoing into the possibility that oil is a renewable energy source. Something about geo-thermal breakdown of rock formation etc. Oil is NOT the byproduct of fossilised forests as they used to tell us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sign_of_the_times Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 a bit of froth has blown off the coffee.most of the fuel price is tax,thinsk its over 75%.............ouch. now that the psycological £1 per litre has been 'accepted' expect the price to stay in 3 digits from now on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckmojo Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle3208761.eceFrom Times OnlineJanuary 18, 2008 Oil falls below $90 mark on US slump fears Oil prices fall and Asian markets suffer heavy losses as fears of US recession take toll on Wall Street stocks Angela "Angie" Jameson World oil prices have fallen below the $90 a barrel level in Asian trading amid fears that demand for energy will be blunted by a US economic slowdown. The prospect of a full-blown recession has pulled crude oil back from a record level above $100 a barrel that it hit on January 3 to below $90. I paid 1.049 yesterday in Stratford-on-Avon. Diesel was 1.109. the only way for the price of fuel is up. plus, the more the fuel costs to you, the more slapface darling cashes in on tax, as it is a percentage duty and not a fixed one as it should be. that's another reason why you'll never see it going down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMAC67 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Oil supply is always primarily a geological problem, it is one of many finite commodities that we have on our finite little planet. The socio-political issues are merely the continuing arguments we have to divide finite commodities. I learned that in day one of an Economics lecture at University. Obviously prices will vary as supply and demand changes on a daily basis, but the overall picture {aka the BIG picture} shows demand increasing against a diminishing supply. Although at this time we seem to be at a peak of approximately 85mpd. All the wishful thinking in the world isn't going to change the geology of this planet. Better start thinking of ways to run the planet with less energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wlad Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I heard a story the other day that research is ongoing into the possibility that oil is a renewable energy source. Something about geo-thermal breakdown of rock formation etc. Oil is NOT the byproduct of fossilised forests as they used to tell us. The problem with this theory is that the chirality of the hydrocarbons in oil is mostly left-handed, which is the same as that produced by life forms. If it was produced by inorganic methods then it would be a more even split. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lander Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I heard a story the other day that research is ongoing into the possibility that oil is a renewable energy source. Something about geo-thermal breakdown of rock formation etc. Oil is NOT the byproduct of fossilised forests as they used to tell us. Oil is caramelised plankton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It is different this time Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 the only way for the price of fuel is up. No need to panic Brown promised 'No Boom No Bust' + inflation is now under control as long as they keep nurse & police salaries @ 1.9% Corrupted muppets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle3207311.eceThe TimesJanuary 18, 2008 World not running out of oil, say experts Carl Mortished, World Business Editor Doom-laden forecasts that world oil supplies are poised to fall off the edge of a cliff are wide of the mark, according to leading oil industry experts who gave warning that human factors, not geology, will drive the oil market. The inclusion of a straw-man sets alarm bells ringing: why is the writer spinning like this? Oil supplies are expected to follow a bell curve, meaning we face a plateau followed by gentle (but increasing) decline and not a precipitous fall. The problem is that any fall at all, or even a failure to increase supply, spells big trouble for our oil- and growth-addicted economies. But why does the Times writer feel it necessary to distort the other side of the case? I heard a story the other day that research is ongoing into the possibility that oil is a renewable energy source. Something about geo-thermal breakdown of rock formation etc. Oil is NOT the byproduct of fossilised forests as they used to tell us. Ah, the soft nougat centre theory -- and one that's supported by Opec reserve figures, where else could the increases come from? (seriously, the above quota-driven increase in stated OPEC reserves has been cited as evidence for renewable oil). Still, most geologists are hard-pressed to explain why the world's greatest oil pool, the Middle East, has more than doubled its reserves in the past 20 years, despite half a century of intense exploitation and relatively few new discoveries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckmojo Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 hear hear,we need an oil rampers thread. not oil. FUEL. different kettle of fish (plus vat) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I heard a story the other day that research is ongoing into the possibility that oil is a renewable energy source. Something about geo-thermal breakdown of rock formation etc. Oil is NOT the byproduct of fossilised forests as they used to tell us. This theory has been around for ages lurking out on the margins of sanity. Of course, technically, oil is a renewable resource. Fish die, they fall to the sea bed and rot, next thing you know, a few million years later, you've got oil! The fish haven't stopped dying... From an energy POV oil is just stored sunlight. It's been building up over millions of year and we've burnt it all in 100 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiggerthetiger Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle3207311.eceThe TimesJanuary 18, 2008 World not running out of oil, say experts Carl Mortished, World Business Editor Doom-laden forecasts that world oil supplies are poised to fall off the edge of a cliff are wide of the mark, according to leading oil industry experts who gave warning that human factors, not geology, will drive the oil market. I heard a story the other day that research is ongoing into the possibility that oil is a renewable energy source. Something about geo-thermal breakdown of rock formation etc. Oil is NOT the byproduct of fossilised forests as they used to tell us. Ive always had a problem believing that all that oil came from fish !! Edited January 18, 2008 by tiggerthetiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefheart Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Try this.... http://www.vialls.com/wecontrolamerica/peakoil.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furby Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Ive always had a problem believing that all that oil came from fish !! I am sure it is high in Omega 3 though, so perfectly safe to feed to the kids. F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furby Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Try this....http://www.vialls.com/wecontrolamerica/peakoil.html Good article - i do not have enough technical understanding to comment on whether it is true - bu having been a fully subscibed member of peak oil theory for a while it is goods to see alternative views. F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryrot Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Good article - i do not have enough technical understanding to comment on whether it is true - bu having been a fully subscibed member of peak oil theory for a while it is goods to see alternative views.F can't comment on the article, but Bjorn Lomborg;s "Skeptical Environmentalist" is v good on oil. It's a question of price - we are running out of oil that can be extracted at $2 a barrel (Saudi-type deposits) but higher prices mean more can be economicaly extracted - and prospected. At $250 a barrel we can get oil from shale-oil deposits, and there's anough at current use for 5000 years. Of course, $250 a barrel will make air travel and plastics dearer, but with UK petrol the tax is 70% of the cost anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Good article - i do not have enough technical understanding to comment on whether it is true - bu having been a fully subscibed member of peak oil theory for a while it is goods to see alternative views.F It's wrong for a number of reasons.. (a) There is no oil being produced today from these supposed 'super-deep' wells. Fell free to show me one that is.. ( Below ca. 10-20km, the rocks of the Earth's crust are essentially ductile, so there cannot be any fractures for this stuff to migrate up. © Where we do get relatively fast conduits to the mantle (Mid ocean ridges, hotspot volcanoes, etc) we don't get oil deposits; we get CO2 fields if anything. (d) There is no reason why oil cannot migrate from source rock to a fractured volcanic rock (as in the Vietnam fields) to accumulate. (e) If oil were being formed in the mantle and escaping at anything like current usage rates (even 10%), all of the oxygen would rapidly be stripped out of the atmosphere in geological terms. (f) IF you are undecided on the geological reasons, then try this. OPEC countries created their national oil companies by forced nationalisation of the western oil companies operating in their territory. This did not go down well with the likes of Shell, BP, Exxon, et al. If this vast amount of oil could really be produced from western countries, then the oil majors could outcompete OPEC with ease. Instead they grab whatever crumbs they get offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle3207311.eceThe TimesJanuary 18, 2008 World not running out of oil, say experts Carl Mortished, World Business Editor Doom-laden forecasts that world oil supplies are poised to fall off the edge of a cliff are wide of the mark, according to leading oil industry experts who gave warning that human factors, not geology, will drive the oil market. I heard a story the other day that research is ongoing into the possibility that oil is a renewable energy source. Something about geo-thermal breakdown of rock formation etc. Oil is NOT the byproduct of fossilised forests as they used to tell us. Yes its new: its available on Wednesdays: its called Soylent BLACK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minos Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle3207311.eceThe TimesJanuary 18, 2008 World not running out of oil, say experts Carl Mortished, World Business Editor Doom-laden forecasts that world oil supplies are poised to fall off the edge of a cliff are wide of the mark, according to leading oil industry experts who gave warning that human factors, not geology, will drive the oil market. I heard a story the other day that research is ongoing into the possibility that oil is a renewable energy source. Something about geo-thermal breakdown of rock formation etc. Oil is NOT the byproduct of fossilised forests as they used to tell us. Oh goody. In that case can you knock me out a few million barrels when you fire up your particle accelerator to make yourself some gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 can't comment on the article, but Bjorn Lomborg;s "Skeptical Environmentalist" is v good on oil. It's a question of price - we are running out of oil that can be extracted at $2 a barrel (Saudi-type deposits) but higher prices mean more can be economicaly extracted - and prospected. At $250 a barrel we can get oil from shale-oil deposits, and there's anough at current use for 5000 years. Of course, $250 a barrel will make air travel and plastics dearer, but with UK petrol the tax is 70% of the cost anyway... Hmmm.. wake me when 'shale' oil reaches 1% of conventional. Coal to liquids will be far bigger if we carry on with Business as usual. It actually works energetically and economically (if not environmentally). Coal is up to 90% carbon, oil shales 10% at best, and both require significant processing to make usable fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nohpc Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 My selfish viewpoint, I would like to see petrol pump prices at £2 . I believe this is the level required to reduce the ridiculous congestion on the roads which triples my time taken to drive to work and home every day. Tax on petrol should be increased not decreased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furby Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 It's wrong for a number of reasons..(a) There is no oil being produced today from these supposed 'super-deep' wells. Fell free to show me one that is.. ( Below ca. 10-20km, the rocks of the Earth's crust are essentially ductile, so there cannot be any fractures for this stuff to migrate up. © Where we do get relatively fast conduits to the mantle (Mid ocean ridges, hotspot volcanoes, etc) we don't get oil deposits; we get CO2 fields if anything. (d) There is no reason why oil cannot migrate from source rock to a fractured volcanic rock (as in the Vietnam fields) to accumulate. (e) If oil were being formed in the mantle and escaping at anything like current usage rates (even 10%), all of the oxygen would rapidly be stripped out of the atmosphere in geological terms. (f) IF you are undecided on the geological reasons, then try this. OPEC countries created their national oil companies by forced nationalisation of the western oil companies operating in their territory. This did not go down well with the likes of Shell, BP, Exxon, et al. If this vast amount of oil could really be produced from western countries, then the oil majors could outcompete OPEC with ease. Instead they grab whatever crumbs they get offered. Thanks Fluffy - your last point is probably my thinking as well. After all would is it really be easier to create an environment of war in order to control oil supplies or to just hijack the tech to be able to drill some super deep wells in your own back yard? F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furby Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 My selfish viewpoint,I would like to see petrol pump prices at £2 . I believe this is the level required to reduce the ridiculous congestion on the roads which triples my time taken to drive to work and home every day. Tax on petrol should be increased not decreased. Your user name is fast becoming irony. F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear_or_bull Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 can't comment on the article, but Bjorn Lomborg;s "Skeptical Environmentalist" is v good on oil. It's a question of price - we are running out of oil that can be extracted at $2 a barrel (Saudi-type deposits) but higher prices mean more can be economicaly extracted - and prospected. At $250 a barrel we can get oil from shale-oil deposits, and there's anough at current use for 5000 years. Of course, $250 a barrel will make air travel and plastics dearer, but with UK petrol the tax is 70% of the cost anyway... It's not just a matter of price. Eventually it becomes a matter of energy and time. If it takes 2 "barrels" of energy in to get 1 useful one out you're in trouble. Likewise if it takes too long to do the conversion. You can slice and dice the mix, but thinking more money is the solution is a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wlad Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 can't comment on the article, but Bjorn Lomborg;s "Skeptical Environmentalist" is v good on oil. Well, given that he said that by now oil would be down to about $20 a barrel I am not sure how you are defining good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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