"it's Every Man For Himself"

[VacantPossession]

I recall 1991 like it was yesterday. Several of my friends had bought at the top of the market in 1989. Two years later the same bank managers who had lent them tons of cash on a wing and a prayer were sending nasty foreclosure letters, and a couple of them used the phrase "In these circumstances it is every man for himself". I know two people who are still paying ten quid a month to pay off negative equity shortfall from 15 years ago.

The situation now is far in excess of that in 1991. The hyping of property has been an unprecedented phenomenon of media and lender manipulation and it is interesting now to see the very journalists who were part of that hype are withdrawing to their bunkers, claiming a suddenly found wisdom which strangely they lacked only one year ago. Of course very few of the sharks in the whole industry of lending will ever be brought to justice. They will quietly disappear, taking their last bonuses and stash of cash to some agreeable cottage in Devon while those naive FTB's who they conned will be repossessed and wonder what hit them.

But we never learn and greed knows no bounds. I was naive then too. But a now deceased friend of mine, a commodity broker, was a loan voice in an ocean of ridicule when he predicted a crash in 1991 because he knew that HPI was unsustainable for any longer. I have no doubt that many of those who laughed at him then are now being stung a second time because their memories are short and their greed and gullibility relentless.

The bankers can thank their lucky stars they don't live somewhere like China where they would have been paraded in a football stadium before being shot in the head. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but I think three months on a park bench with some soggy sandwiches in the pouring rain might get the message home!

VP

[right_freds_dead]

its not the banks fault. it was a banking conspiracy to inflate the assets to make more off larger loans for the same item, but they didnt put out a gun to the head of ANY greedy nimby btl, flipper or investor.

those that signed the line, do the time.

loved the retro look though. got any more rambling early crash memories.?

my own was watching a tiny NW terrace jump from usual 20k to 50k, and then plunge right back. it had a for sale sign on forever. if i was in the car and we used to drive past, my dad would always say to my mum in a tsk tsk manner "he paid how much for that etc ?" the buyer lived in this tiny terrace for years until he could get free. hes probably ok now, but he was trapped for a good 15yrs without being able to move on.

i bet the current selling price will be 130k or so. which should take us right back to the real local earnings related price which would be around 65k in this area.

good fun watching this crash.

im enjoying it so far.

[Methinkshe]

its not the banks fault. it was a banking conspiracy to inflate the assets to make more off larger loans for the same item, but they didnt put out a gun to the head of ANY greedy nimby btl, flipper or investor.

those that signed the line, do the time.

loved the retro look though. got any more rambling early crash memories.?

my own was watching a tiny NW terrace jump from usual 20k to 50k, and then plunge right back. it had a for sale sign on forever. if i was in the car and we used to drive past, my dad would always say to my mum in a tsk tsk manner "he paid how much for that etc ?" the buyer lived in this tiny terrace for years until he could get free. hes probably ok now, but he was trapped for a good 15yrs without being able to move on.

i bet the current selling price will be 130k or so. which should take us right back to the real local earnings related price which would be around 65k in this area.

good fun watching this crash.

im enjoying it so far.

My memory:

Bought a five-bed house with extensive outbuildings in Lincs in 1981 for £28,000 - it had been on the market for several years. Sold in 1988 for £165,00 with OPP for nursing home use. Had worked out the effect of MIRAS withdrawal was going to be detrimental to housing market. Later discovered our buyer had to sell for £95,000 just 12 months later when his plans for a nursing home went belly-up due to housing downturn. Meanwhile I purchased a house for cash and rode out worst of downturn, only selling in 1992 due to a move to Ireland but at little more than we had purchased for.

[South Lorne]

I recall 1991 like it was yesterday. Several of my friends had bought at the top of the market in 1989. Two years later the same bank managers who had lent them tons of cash on a wing and a prayer were sending nasty foreclosure letters, and a couple of them used the phrase "In these circumstances it is every man for himself". I know two people who are still paying ten quid a month to pay off negative equity shortfall from 15 years ago.

......in those days it was mainly building societies lending and obviously they needed to repossess before the house (the security) lost too much value....today it's more obscure...often the loan has been sold on (securitised) and wrapped into a CDO ....wonder who calls time?....it's all a bit confusing....like to see the process flow....

[Methinkshe]

......in those days it was mainly building societies lending and obviously they needed to repossess before the house (the security) lost too much value....today it's more obscure...often the loan has been sold on (securitised) and wrapped into a CDO ....wonder who calls time?....it's all a bit confusing....like to see the process flow....

Shoot! This has unlocked a memory of something I read (probably a newspaper) in the past couple of months whereby there was a legal confusion concerning bank repossessions on a defaulted mortgage when the mortgage had been re-securitised and sold on in the form of a CDO. Can't remember the details, but as far as I can remember it went along the lines of, if the bank that provided the mortgage has since sold on the loan, then they no longer have a right to recall the loan and seek repossession... Can anyone else remember and/or elaborate?

[cartimandua51]

Shoot! This has unlocked a memory of something I read (probably a newspaper) in the past couple of months whereby there was a legal confusion concerning bank repossessions on a defaulted mortgage when the mortgage had been re-securitised and sold on in the form of a CDO. Can't remember the details, but as far as I can remember it went along the lines of, if the bank that provided the mortgage has since sold on the loan, then they no longer have a right to recall the loan and seek repossession... Can anyone else remember and/or elaborate?

It was a judge in Cleveland Ohio who had a real go a Deutchebank (?sp) and saying they had to prove they were the rightful holders of the security.

Wouldn't place too much faith in that - Cleveland is in dire straights (my stepdaughter lives there, so I get updates from the horses mouth) and this was a fairly low-level court so I expect it'll get overturned/ sorted out fairly quickly.

[A.steve]

Cleveland is in dire straights (my stepdaughter lives there, so I get updates from the horses mouth)

Does anyone know how things are going in Texas? (Someone I know is visiting this month...)

[Pluto]

Shoot! This has unlocked a memory of something I read (probably a newspaper) in the past couple of months whereby there was a legal confusion concerning bank repossessions on a defaulted mortgage when the mortgage had been re-securitised and sold on in the form of a CDO. Can't remember the details, but as far as I can remember it went along the lines of, if the bank that provided the mortgage has since sold on the loan, then they no longer have a right to recall the loan and seek repossession... Can anyone else remember and/or elaborate?

Here you go:

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/o...la-news-comment

[South Lorne]

Shoot! This has unlocked a memory of something I read (probably a newspaper) in the past couple of months whereby there was a legal confusion concerning bank repossessions on a defaulted mortgage when the mortgage had been re-securitised and sold on in the form of a CDO. Can't remember the details, but as far as I can remember it went along the lines of, if the bank that provided the mortgage has since sold on the loan, then they no longer have a right to recall the loan and seek repossession... Can anyone else remember and/or elaborate?

...you're right here's one of the reports....

Mr. C.A. Boyko recently fired a shot that was heard ’round the world. At least ’round the world of structured finance. Or, at least, ’round the world of Deutsche Bank, who got a bullet in the head.

http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/deutsche-bank/2007/12/03/

[South Lorne]

Here you go:

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/o...la-news-comment

....I like this one ..no wonder the write offs are so big.....

"But until that happens, if you're having trouble making your mortgage payments, before you start preparing for the worst, you might want to do a little digging and see who actually owns your home. Because you never know, it may turn out to be no one."

[South Lorne]

....I like this one ..no wonder the write offs are so big.....

"But until that happens, if you're having trouble making your mortgage payments, before you start preparing for the worst, you might want to do a little digging and see who actually owns your home. Because you never know, it may turn out to be no one."

.....meant to say ..some marketing type got the process flow wrong....!....

[Its time to buy]

"It's Every One For themselves!", Quote from Bank Manager 2008

Okay, so it's not as punchy, but we've got to be more politically correct in the 21st Century, Okay with you lot?

[Bloo Loo]

"It's Every One For themselves!", Quote from Bank Manager 2008

Okay, so it's not as punchy, but we've got to be more politically correct in the 21st Century, Okay with you lot?

"its every one for oneself!" shurely

[ScaredEitherWay]

Does anyone know how things are going in Texas? (Someone I know is visiting this month...)

The US is a big place and any housing crisis is not going on everywhere.

Cleveland has had some press as it is the worst hit place. Combination of very sub-prime loans and factory closures in a town with no hope. Florida is also well known for taking a hit.

I am in daily contact with Americans and often ask and the ones I ask are not seeing anything happen at all. So I stopped asking.

Areas I was asking/expecting tales of woe to come from are:

NYC - my friend rents. No changes there in the housing market

Chicago - my friend (FTB) has been looking to buy a specific house for the last 4-5 months, been waiting for it to finish being done up. No falls there. Nor any expected.

Wisconsin - friend (FTB) just bought a small house. Again, no price drops. No crash.

Austin, Texas - friend owns a house, I get the impression its a mansion but as everybody down her way has one it's normal/no big deal. No market dips or crash there

[Its time to buy]

i cant seem to say that as quickly....

Imagine you are in a long queue of BTLers waiting for the exit to open to get out. You're hardly going to shout at the top of your voice, EVERY ONE FOR ONESELF!!!!! RUUNNN!!! MMIIIRRR

[Bloo Loo]

i cant seem to say that as quickly....

Imagine you are in a long queue of BTLers waiting for the exit to open to get out. You're hardly going to shout at the top of your voice, EVERY ONE FOR ONESELF!!!!! RUUNNN!!! MMIIIRRR

looks like "the visually impaired leading the visually impaired" to me

[Its time to buy]

[Sheer Heart Attack]

In my game, all competitors really know each other and we talk a lot. There aren't that many of us and we all buy from each other from time to time.

Anyhoo, one guy, known him since 2001, announces that "it's never been this tough in advertising. I'm out of it in 6 months".

This was after he told me that another competitor which owed him £1,200 went into liquidation two months ago owing nearly £100,000.

Baton down the hatches, convert all your assets, dump your liabilities, keep small & lean and don't enter into any long term agreements for 5 years. Just wish I could have told myself that 9 months ago. :angry:

[thecrashingisles]

i cant seem to say that as quickly....

Imagine you are in a long queue of BTLers waiting for the exit to open to get out. You're hardly going to shout at the top of your voice, EVERY ONE FOR ONESELF!!!!! RUUNNN!!! MMIIIRRR

"Calm down! You'll all get chance to speak to myself."

[eric pebble]

The situation now is far in excess of that in 1991. The hyping of property has been an unprecedented phenomenon of media and lender manipulation and it is interesting now to see the very journalists who were part of that hype are withdrawing to their bunkers, claiming a suddenly found wisdom which strangely they lacked only one year ago. Of course very few of the sharks in the whole industry of lending will ever be brought to justice. They will quietly disappear, taking their last bonuses and stash of cash to some agreeable cottage in Devon while those naive FTB's who they conned will be repossessed and wonder what hit them.

But we never learn and greed knows no bounds. I was naive then too. But a now deceased friend of mine, a commodity broker, was a loan voice in an ocean of ridicule when he predicted a crash in 1991 because he knew that HPI was unsustainable for any longer. I have no doubt that many of those who laughed at him then are now being stung a second time because their memories are short and their greed and gullibility relentless.

The bankers can thank their lucky stars they don't live somewhere like China where they would have been paraded in a football stadium before being shot in the head. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but I think three months on a park bench with some soggy sandwiches in the pouring rain might get the message home!

VP

A WONDERFUL and POWERFUL post VP --- Congratulations on stating it so perfectly -- Saying it AS IT IS.... FABULOUS POST!!!!

[expatowner]

I am in daily contact with Americans and often ask and the ones I ask are not seeing anything happen at all. So I stopped asking.

Areas I was asking/expecting tales of woe to come from are:

NYC - my friend rents. No changes there in the housing market

Chicago - my friend (FTB) has been looking to buy a specific house for the last 4-5 months, been waiting for it to finish being done up. No falls there. Nor any expected.

Wisconsin - friend (FTB) just bought a small house. Again, no price drops. No crash.

Austin, Texas - friend owns a house, I get the impression its a mansion but as everybody down her way has one it's normal/no big deal. No market dips or crash there

Ssh

This backs up my experiences, but better keep it between you and me rather than bursting RB's bubble.

He thinks the drops that happen in a few areas of USA will ripple across the Atlantic - tsunami-like, and swamp UK.

I suggest we let him find out its not as black as he paints all by himself.