Am I Missing Something?

[Matthew]

Either this is a subversive ploy by the Tories to weaken Brown or Tebbit has really gone off the rails (well we knew that anyway)!

I can't beleive this!

[Woody Finch]

Either this is a subversive ploy by the Tories to weaken Brown or Tebbit has really gone off the rails (well we knew that anyway)!

I can't beleive this!

This guy is to the Tories' now what Tony Benn was to the Labour Party twenty years ago. He might as well be bankrolled by NuLab.

[R K]

Either this is a subversive ploy by the Tories to weaken Brown or Tebbit has really gone off the rails (well we knew that anyway)!

I can't beleive this!

The Tory old guard can't abide Cameron and the smarmy Eton Trifles.

It has nothing to do with Brown, it is a hatchet job on Cameron.

[Guest tbatst2000]

Either this is a subversive ploy by the Tories to weaken Brown or Tebbit has really gone off the rails (well we knew that anyway)!

I can't beleive this!

Radio 4 referred to him as the Chingford Skinhead this morning - I remember him actually being called the Chingford Strangler at the time. Short memories these meeja types.

[Guest tbatst2000]

The Tory old guard can't abide Cameron and the smarmy Eton Trifles.

It has nothing to do with Brown, it is a hatchet job on Cameron.

Agreed. Is there actually anyone they do like?

[Guest AuntJess]

The Tory old guard can't abide Cameron and the smarmy Eton Trifles.

It has nothing to do with Brown, it is a hatchet job on Cameron.

Very likely. although for someone to say that Brown is clever isn't saying much. He probably is clever. I just don't think his ethics bear close inspection.

[thecrashingisles]

Either this is a subversive ploy by the Tories to weaken Brown or Tebbit has really gone off the rails (well we knew that anyway)!

I can't beleive this!

Tebbit's gone off the rails.

The Tory right ought to be deeply ashamed of themselves as they've systematically undermined the party over the last 15 years. First there were the 'bastards' who did all they could to undermine John Major and even cheered when Chris Patten lost his seat. Then they contrived to elect the completely unsuitable William Hague as leader instead of Ken Clarke. After a disastrous 'Save the Pound' election campaign they managed to kick Portillo (who by then understood how big the Tories' problem was) off the final ballot and left us with Iain Duncan Smith , one of the worst rebels under John Major. Now they're not even satisfied with Cameron.

Thanks to these cretins we've had to put up with 10 years of mismanagement of the economy, with the British people not being given any real choice.

[bobthe~]

Agreed. Is there actually anyone they do like?

Probably not. I think the Tory party's implode-ometer has gone to "Black hole" or at the very least "neutron star".

They are unfortunately a step behind. They have a leader that they thought could tackle Blair, but now lack someone with the "gravitas" to oppose Brown.

It's a bit like the Labour party from 79 through 92/3/4, can't remember the exact year, but before Blair anyway.

Sad to see if only because NL are getting away with murder and there seems to be no-one to call them to account. Cameron's biggest problem IMO was swallowing Global Warming hook lne and sinker and trying to out-green everyone else. They are a party of the right and their solution or adaptation strategy should have come from the right as well.

No clear blue water, no alternative views, no difference really.

[dubsie]

Either this is a subversive ploy by the Tories to weaken Brown or Tebbit has really gone off the rails (well we knew that anyway)!

I can't beleive this!

You lot make me laugh, what will the Conservatives do to lower property prices? I can't think of anything they would do that would make a difference. I would vote for Brown over Cameron without hesitation, he's had probably the hardest few months in politics seen in decades and he's still doing well in the Polls.

[dubsie]

Tebbit's gone off the rails.

The Tory right ought to be deeply ashamed of themselves as they've systematically undermined the party over the last 15 years. First there were the 'bastards' who did all they could to undermine John Major and even cheered when Chris Patten lost his seat. Then they contrived to elect the completely unsuitable William Hague as leader instead of Ken Clarke. After a disastrous 'Save the Pound' election campaign they managed to kick Portillo (who by then understood how big the Tories' problem was) off the final ballot and left us with Iain Duncan Smith , one of the worst rebels under John Major. Now they're not even satisfied with Cameron.

Thanks to these cretins we've had to put up with 10 years of mismanagement of the economy, with the British people not being given any real choice.

And you would trust a party full of back stabbing toffs, criminals and OAP's...how many ex tories are locked up or disgraced....plenty I can tell you.

[bobthe~]

And you would trust a party full of back stabbing toffs, criminals and OAP's...how many ex tories are locked up or disgraced....plenty I can tell you.

You missed out wife beaters, allegedly of course.

[Guest AuntJess]

You lot make me laugh, what will the Conservatives do to lower property prices? I can't think of anything they would do that would make a difference. I would vote for Brown over Cameron without hesitation, he's had probably the hardest few months in politics seen in decades and he's still doing well in the Polls.

That merely makes him a slick operator, with a good PR team, not a principled or knowledgeable man.

[FernandoMorientes]

Take a little while out and have a think about what you are writing.

And you would trust a party full of back stabbing toffs, criminals and OAP's...how many ex tories are locked up or disgraced....plenty I can tell you.

[South Lorne]

...the Tories know they have no chance with Cameron....let's face it ...the guys a joke...green this, green that, green tie, etc ...... and why would any party wish to win the next election apart from Labour ..?.....no... the Tory strategy must be lose this one, dump Cameron and his school pals...and if there are any MPs left plan for the next election.....in the meantime let the clowns clean up their own mess....

[Woody Finch]

...the Tories know they have no chance with Cameron....let's face it ...the guys a joke...green this, green that, green tie, etc ...... and why would any party wish to win the next election apart from Labour ..?.....no... the Tory strategy must be lose this one, dump Cameron and his school pals...and if there are any MPs left plan for the next election.....in the meantime let the clowns clean up their own mess....

The problem for the Tories is much more serious - what are they actually for that's genuinely distinct from NuLab? Until that can be persuasively articulated perhaps they'd all be better off retiring...

[@contradevian]

Tories are pretty much finished IMO (I say this as a life long Tory voter). They still haven't learned the lessons of disunity and disloyalty. They don't want to govern, they want to argue instead. Fine, they will be out of power for the next decade at least.

[It is different this time]

he's had probably the hardest few months in politics seen in decades and he's still doing well in the Polls.

The only reason he's still doing well in the polls is that most people in this country live in 'la la land' as long as the value of their house goes up everyday & they can have easy access to money and credit card everyone is happy.

We'll see how 'Mr No Boom - No Bust' will do in the polls after the crash. Having said that I wouldn't trust 'Mr Shared Ownership Cameron' either!

[Realistbear]

...the Tories know they have no chance with Cameron....let's face it ...the guys a joke...green this, green that, green tie, etc ...... and why would any party wish to win the next election apart from Labour ..?.....no... the Tory strategy must be lose this one, dump Cameron and his school pals...and if there are any MPs left plan for the next election.....in the meantime let the clowns clean up their own mess....

It is sometimes said that a drug addict must hit rock bottom before the road to recovery can begin. Likewise, the Tory party needs to hit rock bottom before it can recover. Brown should call a GE soon as he is riding a huge popularity wave (the sheeple have not seen their house prices collapse yet) and allow the Tories to find a visionary who can lead a team bold enough to do what Sarkozy is doing for France. The Tories need a strong radical (which meansa coming from the center: "radius") not someone like Cameron who would be better served by teaching in a decent public school somewhere.

I wonder if they have worked out how to clone people yet?

Edited September 26, 2007 by Realistbear

[@contradevian]

It is sometimes said that a drug addict must hit rock bottom before the road to recovery can begin. Likewise, the Tory party needs to hit rock bottom before it can recover. Brown should call a GE soon as he is riding a huge popularity wave (the sheeple have not seen their house prices collapse yet) and allow the Tories to find a visionary who can lead a team bold enough to do what Sarkozy is doing for France. The Tories need a strong radical (which meansa coming from the center: "radius") not someone like Cameron who would be better served by teaching in a decent public school somewhere.

I wonder if they have worked out how to clone people yet?

Because RB the hour for this hasn't arrived yet. France is seen to have deep economic structural problems such as high unemployment and very powerful trade unions.

The UK on the other hand is seen as "successful" and possessing a modern competitive economy. The model in fact for France and Germany!

You and I might deny with that assessment, but thats how its perceived by the great British public.

As far as the sheeple are concerned, the economy doesn't need fixing ... yet.

[gavp]

Either this is a subversive ploy by the Tories to weaken Brown or Tebbit has really gone off the rails (well we knew that anyway)!

I can't beleive this!

If Brown announces that embalming fluid will be VAT exempt then we'll know there's a quid pro quo going on here...

[Guest mattsta1964]

Either this is a subversive ploy by the Tories to weaken Brown or Tebbit has really gone off the rails (well we knew that anyway)!

I can't beleive this!

We live in a one party state

The Tories are an irrelevence. They have ceased to have any importance and don't deserve to be taken seriously

We are living under a benign dictatorship, that's benign in the sense that we are not being marched into gas chambers....yet.

Democracy is dead

The statists own the political system and our media

Without a revolution, we are now prisoners. As the power of the political elite grows, our chances of breaking the system diminish.

Nevermind eh! Back to watching Eastenders and buying cheap Chinese tat. Or we can go out at the weekend and get wasted cos thats all that's left for many people now.

[R K]

Because RB the hour for this hasn't arrived yet. France is seen to have deep economic structural problems such as high unemployment and very powerful trade unions.

The UK on the other hand is seen as "successful" and possessing a modern competitive economy. The model in fact for France and Germany!

You and I might deny with that assessment, but thats how its perceived by the great British public.

As far as the sheeple are concerned, the economy doesn't need fixing ... yet.

Good post. There has been no Thatcher/Scargill or Kinnock/Militant politics for over 10 years. Most people don't care about politics, they care about jobs and house prices. Brown recognised this and gave them what they want. The illusion of security and prosperity.

Trouble is, in so doing he has destroyed final salary pensions, put students into long-term debt, and destroyed productivity, whilst stoking up immigration. In the end these will come home to bite and people may then turn to politicians again. We're not there yet except in a few very depressed areas where politics is divided between a labour party hi-jacked by Muslims, and the extreme right.

Give it 5 years and the elastic he has stretched to breaking point will snap back and take his other eye out. I would never vote NULAB due to their obsession with lying, ID cards and DNA databases, but could not vote for mush like Cameron either. I think the Tories will "die", Brown will get re-elected and then all hell will break lose economically and socially followed by a much stronger rightist revival.

[crashtart]

We live in a one party state

The Tories are an irrelevence. They have ceased to have any importance and don't deserve to be taken seriously

We are living under a benign dictatorship, that's benign in the sense that we are not being marched into gas chambers....yet.

Democracy is dead

The statists own the political system and our media

Without a revolution, we are now prisoners. As the power of the political elite grows, our chances of breaking the system diminish.

Nevermind eh! Back to watching Eastenders and buying cheap Chinese tat. Or we can go out at the weekend and get wasted cos thats all that's left for many people now.

If that's what you believe, fair enough. Each to their own. But without wanting to sound preachy, one's attitude to life tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you're as pessimistic and as submissive as you sound, your life will be grim.

I understand many of the concerns on here about HPI. I share them, even though I'm lucky enough to be an owner-occupier myself. But being submissive gets you nowhere. You need to take control of your own life and take a more proactive approach. It doesn't mean you'll be able to buy a house tomorrow but at least it will stop people treading on you.

It's quite untrue to say that "democracy is dead" though we certainly live in an imperfect one -- and always have done. The electoral system is largely to blame. If we switched to proportional representation then despite its faults, it would encourage participation, and be a fairer reflection of the political make-up of the country.

As for Brown, I think he's a very clever man, and Tebbit recognises that. It makes me laugh when Tories complain because the reality is that New Labour are actually much closer to the traditional Tory party than they are to the traditional Labour party! This is why the Conservatives have struggled for 10 years. They've been muscled out of their own territory, and have nowhere to go.

Someone on this thread astutely said that Cameron was elected to counter Blair (which he mostly did with some aplomb). Up against Brown, he looks more like the cheeky schoolboy than ever.

I don't mind saying that I an happy with Brown as PM. I feel I can trust the bloke more than I ever felt with Blair. I think Tebbit is acknowledging the same thing.

Edited September 26, 2007 by crashtart

[R K]

I feel I can trust the bloke more than I ever felt with Blair. I think Tebbit is acknowledging the same thing.

All Tebbit said (and Tebbit is a life-long sh*t stirrer) is that Brown is a clever man. He didn't say he trusted him. I've watched Brown's lips move. He's a contemptible liar who thinks he is cleverer than everyone else.

Hitler was a clever man. Harold Shipman was a clever man. I'm sure his elderly patients trusted him implicitly as they slipped into unconsciousness and then death. I find it bizarre that you should say you trust a man who is taking away your freedoms on an almost daily basis and yet advise people to take control of their own lives. Although I do agree that if people don't want either party they should vote for one they do want.

[Pilgrim]

I don't mind saying that I an happy with Brown as PM. I feel I can trust the bloke more than I ever felt with Blair. I think Tebbit is acknowledging the same thing.

Can't say I'm Dave's biggest fan, but that's quite a statement. The control-freakery and aspergers is enough to give me the willies, before you even start on the big state, big tax stuff.