First Time Buyers - Grow Up And Get Real.

[King of the castle]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/main.j...requestid=41107

The part that really struck a chord with what I see on here was,

Significantly, 65 per cent in Reeds Rains' survey said there was "nothing suitable" in their chosen price range.

Note "nothing suitable", not "nothing available". What, live in the less aesthetically desirable end of the housing stock, a place that doesn't sell "lifestyle", or in an unfashionable location - moi?

[Nomadd]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/main.j...requestid=41107

      The part that really struck a chord with what I see on here was,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here we go again: I live in North London. Basic studio flat in a dodgy area - likely to get you killed before your 21st birthday - is 10 times local earnings. That's not a sensible market. Hence the fact that we now have a dead housing market: no FTB's, and chains which go on for months and then collapse as nobody can sell.

You may feel differently. The market shows otherwise.

Nomadd

[uro_who]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/main.j...requestid=41107

      The part that really struck a chord with what I see on here was,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

KKK you are just so 1990

[King of the castle]

Here we go again: I live in North London. Basic studio flat in a dodgy area - likely to get you killed before your 21st birthday - is 10 times local earnings. That's not a sensible market. Hence the fact that we now have a dead housing market: no FTB's, and chains which go on for months and then collapse as nobody can sell.

You may feel differently. The market shows otherwise.

Nomadd

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Life is about choices,you choose to work in N.London, you choose to want to live there. If your salary does not reflect the added cost of living amidst some of the most expensive real estate in the world (as it always has been), then why stop there?

Why not get a job in Monaco,and complain about being priced out there? (300k for a studio)

http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/property...egion//County//

At least you'd have the sun to compensate.

OK, I'm being facetious, but my points are genuine.

KOTC.

[simon99]

What tosh, the average age of the first time buyer is at an all time high and rising. Houses are more expensive compared to incomes than ever before.

In all but the most expensive areas the previous generation had little trouble buying an average house on a decent salary.

The article makes out like every young FTB expects a luxurious detached home without expecting to save.

[King of the castle]

What tosh, the average age of the first time buyer is at an all time high and rising. Houses are more expensive compared to incomes than ever before.

In all but the most expensive areas the previous generation had little trouble buying an average house on an decent salary.

The article makes out like every young FTB expects a luxurious detached home without expecting to save.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So what is it that you can't afford Simon if I may be so bold? and why can't you afford it?

[Flick]

Great idea KOTC, have everyone on average earnings move out, so the only people left are super-rich and non-working chavs who get housed for free.

Fantastic.

[Who Knows]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/main.j...requestid=41107

      The part that really struck a chord with what I see on here was,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny that there is nothing suitable for me to buy in the price band I am willing to pay .... however there is plenty suitable to rent with at least a 30% reduction when compared to a morgage and these properties are in a far higher price band .....

[Lou G]

The smallest 2 bed terraces here 5 years ago were 45K, today they are 180K.!!!

These are first time buyers houses.! Wages have not changed.! Houses are simply far too high and unaffordable. This is why property has to fall.!

[King of the castle]

Great idea KOTC, have everyone on average earnings move out, so the only people are super-rich and non-working chavs who get housed for free.

Fantastic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No,you miss my point. All I'm saying is if I was you ,that is what I would do,of course not everyone would do it, complacency and lassitude are traits that many people have. All I'm saying is that I would be proactive in my approach, and if that meant moving out of an area because I couldn't afford it, then so be it.

pretty simple solution.

KOTC.

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

I looked at submitting to the forces of economic cleansing and moving to the Westcountry where I grew up. Not only would there be little choice in jobs, I'd probably have to buy a car and commute. Worse, the Westcountry is now so expensive, house prices are only modestly lower than our part of the South East.

Economic cleansing is wrong and turns cities and towns into horrible polarised places of the megarich and those poor enough to qualify for the dregs of the welfare state. The 75% in the middle will soon have no place to go. Living cities are for everyone.

Why should you have to leave London if it's your home, like some refugee?

[simon99]

KOTC housing is more expensive than ever and offers very poor value for money at the moment, that's all there is to it.

People don't want to pile their hard earned savings and much of their future earnings into overvalued houses hence disappearing FTB's.

[Justice]

But the king of the castle is under siege and although he has pulled up the drawbridge the peasants FTB’s are amassing outside. The king seems to have raided the wine reserves from the cellar and stands alone on the roof top shouting at the invading army that he alone will take them all on.

The troops are happily camped outside the castle, eating fresh meat and laughing at the ramblings coming from the king, many wonder if this king actually has any clothes on as they remember stories from afar.

Praying to the god’s the king calls on his friends, the HasLowFacts to come and help him but because he had deceived them in the past about his true wealth they turn a death ear to his pleas.

As the night draws in the screams from the king starts to disturbing the troops tranquil sleep so one man gets up and armed with his bow he sneaks up closer, pauses as he calculates the angles needed to hit the king using 3.5 X wind speed or something like that and lets off a single shot that hits the king in the a$$, the king fails from the roof and lands in a thick pile of his own bull$hit next to the pig pen, having fell from such a height he is unable to move as it seems that his large weight has broken is backbone.

Next morning the troops arise to a new cry coming from the castle, this time the once proud king cries you can have my castle but please let me keep the pig.

[King of the castle]

But the king of the castle is under siege and although he has pulled up the drawbridge the peasants FTB’s are amassing outside. The king seems to have raided the wine reserves from the cellar and stands alone on the roof top shouting at the invading army that he alone will take them all on.

The troops are happily camped outside the castle, eating fresh meat and laughing at the ramblings coming from the king, many wonder if this king actually has any clothes on as they remember stories from afar.

Praying to the god’s the king calls on his friends, the HasLowFacts to come and help him but because he had deceived them in the past about his true wealth they turn a death ear to his pleas.

As the night draws in the screams from the king starts to disturbing the troops tranquil sleep so one man gets up and armed with his bow he sneaks up closer, pauses as he calculates the angles needed to hit the king using 3.5 X wind speed or something like that and lets off a single shot that hits the king in the a$$, the king fails from the roof  and lands in a thick pile of his own bull$hit next to the pig pen, having fell from such a height he is unable to move as it seems that his large weight has broken is backbone.

Next morning the troops arise to a new cry coming from the castle, this time he shouts you can have my castle but please let me keep the pig.         

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very funny Justice, if only humour alone would tip those scales for you.

[Justice]

From the king himself

Very funny Justice, if only humour alone would tip those scales for you.

for that I rely on market forces and simple mathematics

Which bit about 3.5 X income and FTB’s being priced out do you not quite understand

[FernandoMorientes]

No,you miss my point. All I'm saying is if I was you ,that is what I would do,of course not everyone would do it, complacency and lassitude are traits that many people have. All I'm saying is that I would be proactive in my approach, and if that meant moving out of an area because I couldn't afford it, then so be it.

pretty simple solution.

KOTC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ignore the fundamentals at your peril.....1.1 trillion debt 80% mortgage canot be sustained.

Thats coming from someone who owns property....me!

Don,t move wait for the inevitable and you will have choice.

[King of the castle]

for that i rely on market forces and simple mathamatics 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd stick to the day job if I was you.

Which bit about 3.5 X income and FTB’s being priced out do you not quite understand

The bit where you assume 3.5 x income @ 4.75% BR is the same as 3.5x income @ 15% BR.

KOTC.

[Guest pioneer31]

I'd stick to the day job if I was you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no you wouldn't, you're a landlord

[OnlyMe]

KOTC,

Some hack telling FTB's to get on their bike changes nothing about the fundamentals, so sorry you are wrong again.

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

1/

EXCERPT:

"what is far more worrying is the implicit – and largely unchallenged – assumption that single, twentysomethings have an automatic right to that foothold. They don't - and it is arrogant of them to think that they do. "

2/

And WHY should they BUY?

It is easier and cheaper to rent.

THIS attitude of young First Time Buyers is merely an expression of collective madness.  The Crowd (still) likes property, and this has led to the asset class to be overbought, and overvalued.  This madness, like a fever, will take awhile to break.  And as it breaks, fortunes will be lost

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

DrBubb has hit the nail on the head. Why is this journo effectively telling to FTBs to buy any old crumbling leasehold in a crime hotspot when prices are stagnant and falling?

We rent a 3 bed. To get a mortgage repyament for the same we'd be looking at almost-a-studio 1 beds with 10'x8 bedfroom and 10x8 living room, with a cupboard of a kitchen. As my wife works from home, and I have various equipment for freelancing with, we just couldn't function as we presently do, taking this women's advice.

And what is her problem with young twentysomethingsingles? What about 30-something married people with two incomes that are priced out of their areas?

Oh well, at least KOTC might get a job on the Torygraph and leave us all in peace.

[Pete95]

Im a FTB like many on here, and with a Lie-to-Buy mortgage I could buy and afford the repayments for an ok 3bed terrace for example, but the reason for not doing so isnt that "I think I deserve better", it just that it doesnt make financial sense.

Im going to wait until prices return to what I think is a sustainable level, then buy. Until then Im happy to wait and continue saving a deposit whilst living at home.

[Justice]

The bit where you assume 3.5 x income @ 4.75% BR is the same as 3.5x income @ 15% BR.

This 3.5 X rule was used by the building societies long before we got to IR’s of 15% and rates are going back up again. Look at the USA, rates up 250% in less than a year.

I know 3.5 is a hard figure for you to get your head around so lets make it simpler for you. We will work in tens (10).

Professional landlords traditionally value residential property at 10 X Rental income.

Does this help make it obvious to you or do you need one of these

[88Crash]

Im a FTB like many on here, and with a Lie-to-Buy mortgage I could buy and afford the repayments for an ok 3bed terrace for example, but the reason for not doing so isnt that "I think I deserve better", it just that it doesnt make financial sense.

Im going to wait until prices return to what I think is a sustainable level, then buy. Until then Im happy to wait and continue saving a deposit whilst living at home.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

'Lie-to-Buy' mortgage - thats a good one

I'm giving away my age a bit, but we used to call them 'dodgy mortgages' and they were quite hard to get (relatively speaking)

Obviously there are no official figures, but I wouldn't be surprised if a significant amount of money, that cannot be repaid long term by income can only be repaid by anticipated HPI

Unless HPI picks up in the next couple of years these people are a going to have difficulties

If prices fall, there are in deep trouble!

[erranta]

What tosh, the average age of the first time buyer is at an all time high and rising. Houses are more expensive compared to incomes than ever before.

In all but the most expensive areas the previous generation had little trouble buying an average house on a decent salary.

The article makes out like every young FTB expects a luxurious detached home without expecting to save.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not only that - think about this.

If you are 35 or over your parents and grandparents were given a 25% rebate through MIRAS, on their Mortgage through tax rebate, to buy THEIR house!

This was all done off the back/taxes of the 'ordinary' working class man who could not afford to buy and had to live in council accommodation.

These same 'REBATED' parents are the B'stard BTL's who are stitching up their fellow countrymen and the next generation led on by the UK financial industry.

What do we say to those parents then?

[Guest wrongmove]

In reply to KotC, not all non-buyers here are "whingers". I could afford something, but I believe the balance of evidence points to nominal price reductions in the months and years ahead. This is not whinging, it is just using my judgement to make my desicions.

I gues when you brought houses, your judgement told you that it was a good buy, and you followed your instincts. I am currently following mine. Opting out of the housing market is annoyingly passive, but there is not much I can do about that, so I choose to live cheaply, accumulate cash and visit HPC in the meantime.

Why do bulls think that choosing not to buy now is a negative action ? Most housing bulls are real "negheads" when it comes to equities, but do we go on about it?

The other bull assumption is that bearishness is some sort of congenital defect, when it is merely a temporary response to a temporary set of circumstances.

So stop whinging about bears, you neghead !