So What Exactly Is The Problem With Renting?

[nick22abdn]

Aww.. c'mon this guy is so obviously trolling! Ooh! Look at all the money I have to chuck about and I'm barely out of nappies!

The clincher being:

I love this sort of post on here - insulting anyone who is young and is doing well for themselves. There is plenty of money to be made - the economy for the time being is healthy. Just because you took the wrong career path - either through being lazy or having a sub-standard IQ - isn't anyone's fault but your own. If you dispute either assumption, feel free to prove me wrong - study for an accountancy degree or an MBA through Open University. You will then find that you can make good money.

I have a mate the same age as me (23), a stock broker pulling about 70k, another mate just graduated - 50k in the bank having started his own business whilst at uni. Before any assumptions - neither went to private school and both paid their own way through uni.

If you are not happy with the way your life is, change it. Stop making excuses and being jealous of others!

[TeddyBear]

Which letting agent in Islington had this lovely big flat that wouldn't rent? Would be interested to have a look at what's on their books.

[Not 100% Sure]

http://www.hays.com/JobSearch/Results.aspx...o=-1&Page=1

Quite a few there

The point of my thread wasn't to boast. It was rather that this site gets very negative at times and that it almost seems that certain members seem to actually want to see prices crashing even if it means financial ruin for the country!

Personally, I'd rather the economy stayed strong, prices corrected slowly over time and that all the economic misery that a crash would entail was avoided (that's just me being selfish. If I have to rent in the meantime then I'm very happy to do that.

I agree totally. I think the job market in London at the moment is certainly an employees market if you are relatively skilled. With £35 per hour actually being low for a qualified accountant. For all the stick I will get for this please see link below;

http://www.cimaglobal.com/cps/rde/xchg/SID...larysurveys.htm

If (big if) these conditions go on I am also not sure how over-priced housing is in London - most people only buy when they settle down (again IMO - normal as why would you buy before when renting is cheaper and it can be more fun to live with mates) with a partner and if one partner earns £40k and the other £50k plus than the can easily afford a £350k place.

The issue is the IF. I think us 20 somethings in London are in some ways lucky as we have never worked through a recession. Some of the older work guys were chatting the other day about the last recession and how they were constantly nervous about their jobs and didn't get pay rises for 4 plus years and they were the lucky ones! I also think that senior people are already becoming nervous about credit tighting, most of the boom in the city has been possible due to private equity and cheap credit. When this stops conditions will change rapidly but I also agree educated professional, flexible people will be the most likely to survive but I sort of agree with you that despite thinking house prices are crazy I would rather not have the big bust and the recession that will follow.

[OzzMosiz]

I love this sort of post on here - insulting anyone who is young and is doing well for themselves. There is plenty of money to be made - the economy for the time being is healthy. Just because you took the wrong career path - either through being lazy or having a sub-standard IQ - isn't anyone's fault but your own.

So do you think Nurses, Firemen/women etc choose the wrong path? If so we'd have none. What are they supposed to do in the current climate? It's a f****ng disgrace what has happened.

[roadtoruin]

So do you think Nurses, Firemen/women etc choose the wrong path? If so we'd have none. What are they supposed to do in the current climate? It's a f****ng disgrace what has happened.

Course it's a 'kin disgrace, but it's clear from this thread what some people think are the important values in life.

Caring profession ? Losers, they obviously bunked off their careers advice lessons, what with their defective thicko genes and all...

[BoomBoom]

Course it's a 'kin disgrace, but it's clear from this thread what some people think are the important values in life.

Caring profession ? Losers, they obviously bunked off their careers advice lessons, what with their defective thicko genes and all...

I thought the ethos here was anyone not eanring at least 50k a year should be rendered down into soap

[BoomBoom]

http://www.hays.com/JobSearch/Results.aspx...o=-1&Page=1

Quite a few there

The point of my thread wasn't to boast. It was rather that this site gets very negative at times and that it almost seems that certain members seem to actually want to see prices crashing even if it means financial ruin for the country!

Personally, I'd rather the economy stayed strong, prices corrected slowly over time and that all the economic misery that a crash would entail was avoided (that's just me being selfish. If I have to rent in the meantime then I'm very happy to do that.

Most of those positions want quite a bit more than an accountancy qualification, and most are 'senior' roles. That said accountancy is a very soft skill, requiring only basic numeracy and the ability to read. In this sense that there are accountancy jobs paying resonable money speaks resonably highly for the job market in London.

[refusnik]

I have a mate the same age as me (23), a stock broker pulling about 70k, another mate just graduated - 50k in the bank having started his own business whilst at uni.

All this cash and £50/hr fees at the moment is being paid through a convoluted way by mortgage holders. The only problem is these holders start to pack in with increased speed. Enjoy it for the time being but get ready...

[Wemb]

.. I currently rent with two other guys and pay just over £500 a month to rent a lovely big flat in Kensington

Good for you! I'm paying under £200 a month to share a lovely place in Bath. Do you still want to be sharing with your mates when you're fifty? Or sixty? Or Seventy? What you going to do when you're 83 and the landlord decides he wants his property back in two months time? I'm 34 and I just got a letter telling us the gas is about to get cut off because one of the morons I share with hasn't paid the gas bill. Again. I'm sick of it and want a place of my own

Prices are in the main, (ie, excluding houses) are very cheap and general inflation is really quite low. My philosophy is that you should just enjoy these conditions, live a nice life and don't get too obsessed with idea that you simply must own the house you live in!

Yes, and now I have an iPod, a computer, a big telly the only thing I want to buy is a house. Unfortunately, even with the minimal housing costs I'm currently paying I'm still unable to save faster than the rate at which houses prices are galloping away from me. If the market doesn't crash, I'm facing living with students into my 40s and 50s.

Wemb

[Pedro]

So do you think Nurses, Firemen/women etc choose the wrong path? If so we'd have none. What are they supposed to do in the current climate? It's a f****ng disgrace what has happened.

Yes, there is absolutely no good reason to be a public servant (nurse, fireman etc) in the UK today. Even if you want to help people and are willing to accept a lower quality of life, young people today who choose these careers are facing NEVER owning their own home (unless the market crashes). We need these people - who is going to save all the accounts who are stuck in their homes when it floods, otherwise?

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

It seems to me that a lot of the people who post on this board are more than a little resentful of the current price of housing in this country and are very hopeful that there will be a significant correction in the near future. I'm finding it hard to understand this attitude.

Discuss.

Dude, all you're saying is life's sweet because you have loads of money.

Even the rich in third world dictatorship have nice lifestyles.

The mean average salary is 25k, the median 19k. Do the maths on that.

[marzipan]

So What Exactly Is The Problem With Renting?

landlords

[REP013]

I am actually quite surprised but my wife and I both like renting. We have a large house costing around 50% of the mortgage value per month. Our 4 children like it too!

The main downside is tenure. We were in our last place nearly 2 years and this one will only be for only 2 years BUT you can't have everything.

HOWEVER ..... If prices were right and within affordable means we would definitely buy.

So, for us, renting is good for now but not forever (hopefully).

[HenryWeston]

So What Exactly Is The Problem With Renting?

Security of tenure is my only problem with renting

[Guest grumpy-old-man]

landlords

not quite:

greedy landlords.

[winkie]

Security of tenure is my only problem with renting

I agree, if the rent is resonable, and you can decorate within reason, you leave it the same way as you found it, and you can live there as long as you continue to pay the rent, can't see anything wrong with renting.

[alabala]

It seems to me that a lot of the people who post on this board are more than a little resentful of the current price of housing in this country and are very hopeful that there will be a significant correction in the near future. I'm finding it hard to understand this attitude.

I'm a (relatively) young chartered accountant and I've never owned a house. Over the last couple of years my income has grown to the extent that I could now borrow enough money to buy something quite reasonable in London where I live. However, I really don't see the need. I currently rent with two other guys and pay just over £500 a month to rent a lovely big flat in Kensington and am currently looking to move in with my girlfriend and am seeing lots of beautiful places for absolutely bargain rents in really nice locations. Just yesterday we were shown a massive one bedroom place that was very nicely done up, in Angel, which the landlord was not even able to let at £250 per week, the letting agent thought he would accept something around the £220 mark (this would work out at around £475 per week each!).

The economy is doing great and there is lots of very highly paid work around. Wages are insane at the moment. When I started work as an accountant with a big four firm about 6 years ago we were paid £18k a year as new associate and this would double to about £35k when you made manager which would take 5-6 years. In the current market, as long as you're qualified, you can contract for £35-£50 per hour depending on the time of year and make an insane amount of cash. Most of my friends in other industries are all making much more money than they expected when they started work too.

I find that even after my basic expenditure and after spending what seems a ridiculous amount on going out, holdidays, etc. I save a huge amount each month (even after I allow for my tax bill - grrrr!). I'm personally very happy with this arrangement and the last thing I would want is for house (or other asset) prices to crash because I think there would be very severe repercussions for the economy as a whole and I think that I would be commanding a significantly lower wage. Possibly a £nil one!

In my view is that the economy is really currently quite good. There is a lot of demand around and wages are high. Prices are in the main, (ie, excluding houses) are very cheap and general inflation is really quite low. My philosophy is that you should just enjoy these conditions, live a nice life and don't get too obsessed with idea that you simply must own the house you live in!

Discuss.

Couple of my friends are ACCA Chartered Accountants,

One just bought house last week ad the other one bought house in may this year, unbelievable.

BTW, the first one have no down deposit on his house and what he said is quite worrying – I don’t care if the property market is going down I don’t have a problem with that – Banks have .This is from a qualified ACCA member accountant, and he also advise people to do the same.

[the_austrian]

It seems to me that a lot of the people who post on this board are more than a little resentful of the current price of housing in this country and are very hopeful that there will be a significant correction in the near future. I'm finding it hard to understand this attitude.

I'm a (relatively) young chartered accountant and I've never owned a house. Over the last couple of years my income has grown to the extent that I could now borrow enough money to buy something quite reasonable in London where I live. However, I really don't see the need. I currently rent with two other guys and pay just over £500 a month to rent a lovely big flat in Kensington and am currently looking to move in with my girlfriend and am seeing lots of beautiful places for absolutely bargain rents in really nice locations. Just yesterday we were shown a massive one bedroom place that was very nicely done up, in Angel, which the landlord was not even able to let at £250 per week, the letting agent thought he would accept something around the £220 mark (this would work out at around £475 per week each!).

The economy is doing great and there is lots of very highly paid work around. Wages are insane at the moment. When I started work as an accountant with a big four firm about 6 years ago we were paid £18k a year as new associate and this would double to about £35k when you made manager which would take 5-6 years. In the current market, as long as you're qualified, you can contract for £35-£50 per hour depending on the time of year and make an insane amount of cash. Most of my friends in other industries are all making much more money than they expected when they started work too.

I find that even after my basic expenditure and after spending what seems a ridiculous amount on going out, holdidays, etc. I save a huge amount each month (even after I allow for my tax bill - grrrr!). I'm personally very happy with this arrangement and the last thing I would want is for house (or other asset) prices to crash because I think there would be very severe repercussions for the economy as a whole and I think that I would be commanding a significantly lower wage. Possibly a £nil one!

In my view is that the economy is really currently quite good. There is a lot of demand around and wages are high. Prices are in the main, (ie, excluding houses) are very cheap and general inflation is really quite low. My philosophy is that you should just enjoy these conditions, live a nice life and don't get too obsessed with idea that you simply must own the house you live in!

Discuss.

We can't all be chartered accountants!! I'm very happy for your success but you must understand that for most people circumstances are very different. You live in London so think what it must be like for the cleaners, the menial/low skill council workers, the caterers and so on. The economy looks very different to them. I don't mean to sound condescending and I am happy for your success but remember others are not so lucky. Doubtless you have worked hard for your qualifications and you deserve to be paid more than the others I have mentioned but do you deserve to be paid disproportionately more? What I mean is, if you should be paid more why not let the market decide? Instead of that we have a banking system which directs money magically into the hands of those who already have wealth. It mostly goes into property and the stock market in the form of credit. Money supply increases happen at around 12-14% annually so it is no wonder those lower down the pecking order find it hard to keep up!!

[HenryWeston]

who is going to save all the accountants who are stuck in their homes when it floods, otherwise?

Who cares, there are to many bean counters about anyway

[nick22abdn]

So do you think Nurses, Firemen/women etc choose the wrong path? If so we'd have none. What are they supposed to do in the current climate? It's a f****ng disgrace what has happened.

I think they have chosen the wrong path if they wish to live in a large detatched house - they are quite well aware of this when they decide to take that career path. Sexist as this is, the majority of nurses are female - at the point where they require a large house for a family they should have a husband. If he has chosen a career with a good salary there shouldn't be any problem. If their reason for becoming a nurse is a desire to help people and care for them, there is another career that would allow them to do that - doctor. This obviously requires more work throughout school and 6 years of uni, not to mention longer, more stressfull work hours.

I am yet to meet a fireman without a second job. The hours they work allow them to have two jobs on the go simultaneously. A good friends dad is a fireman, who is also a taxi driver. They live in a subsidised house around the corner from the station (as I believe the majority do) which is incredibly cheap rent. Couple this with his salary from 2 jobs, and his wifes part time job and they don't ever appear to be hard up - on holiday somewhere hot at the moment.

Don't the government have a key worker strategy at the moment - providing subsidised housing for these workers? Not to mention job security and much more reliable pensions?

As for another poster who mentioned cleaners -if they have done so little work in the past that means the only career open for them is mopping a floor, no, they dont deserve to have much money. If you can find me someone who has been focussed and worked hard from the age of 11, getting good qualifications from school, going on to do a degree (a proper one!) and then working 60+ hours a week, who can't afford things they want let me know. Can everyone be in the top tier of earners - obviously not. Could anyone who complains they have insuficient money have worked harder to be earning more - yes.

[mattley]

Come back in 25 years - you will probably have worked it out then.

Inflation is the problem. You can fix a mortgage for 25 years.

Rent is index liked. If inflation sits at just 3%, this means rent will rise by 109% over the course of the mortgage. If inflation averages say 8%, rent will rise by 580%.

Worse still, you will still be paying it in 50 years.

This is on top of security of tenure, pets, smoking and all the other niggles.

Try finding a landlord who will guarentee you tenure for life (provided you pay the rent), will fix your rent for the next 25 years, then let you off altogether until you die. Who will let you then pass the property to your kids when you die, or sell it to move abroad. Who will let you smoke and keep pets, etc. etc.

Renting is great for me at the moment, which is why I do it. But as a long term prospect, it really sucks @ss, IMHO.

Really well put, excelent post, especially the 50 years bit, that's the most important one IMO.

Obviously it's working for the OP for now, and he's doing the proper thing by saving his surplus, but he should probably be looking at a pension fund that will cover the rent he'll always have to pay. I'm not massivly well provisioned in the pension department, but I am on track in the having somewhere to live department and I know which one I'd rather have sorted.

[roadtoruin]

As for another poster who mentioned cleaners -if they have done so little work in the past that means the only career open for them is mopping a floor, no, they dont deserve to have much money. If you can find me someone who has been focussed and worked hard from the age of 11, getting good qualifications from school, going on to do a degree (a proper one!) and then working 60+ hours a week, who can't afford things they want let me know. Can everyone be in the top tier of earners - obviously not. Could anyone who complains they have insuficient money have worked harder to be earning more - yes.

You come across as an insecure pillock that thinks being macho and superior involves laying into the most poorly paid unfortunate people in society.

Some day you'll grow up, reflect, and be embarrassed about spouting such pathetic heartless drivel.

[Anti_Claus]

So What Exactly Is The Problem With Renting?

Nothing. Been doing it for a few years now.

I just don't want to do it forever.

[bateman]

That said accountancy is a very soft skill, requiring only basic numeracy and the ability to read. In this sense that there are accountancy jobs paying resonable money speaks resonably highly for the job market in London.

Yeah - aside from the whole having to pass the exams to join the institute of accountants part

[RightToExistInASpace]

As for another poster who mentioned cleaners -if they have done so little work in the past that means the only career open for them is mopping a floor, no, they dont deserve to have much money. If you can find me someone who has been focussed and worked hard from the age of 11, getting good qualifications from school, going on to do a degree (a proper one!) and then working 60+ hours a week, who can't afford things they want let me know. Can everyone be in the top tier of earners - obviously not. Could anyone who complains they have insuficient money have worked harder to be earning more - yes.

I hope you talk like this very loudly at some point in your life and someone punches you quite hard in the face as a result.

(not that I would stoop to such ferral behaviour, but these meagre lower classes that don't deserve much money can be a touchy sort you know!

Edited August 5, 2007 by RightToExistInASpace