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Lasertrip

So What Exactly Is The Problem With Renting?

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It seems to me that a lot of the people who post on this board are more than a little resentful of the current price of housing in this country and are very hopeful that there will be a significant correction in the near future. I'm finding it hard to understand this attitude.

I'm a (relatively) young chartered accountant and I've never owned a house. Over the last couple of years my income has grown to the extent that I could now borrow enough money to buy something quite reasonable in London where I live. However, I really don't see the need. I currently rent with two other guys and pay just over £500 a month to rent a lovely big flat in Kensington and am currently looking to move in with my girlfriend and am seeing lots of beautiful places for absolutely bargain rents in really nice locations. Just yesterday we were shown a massive one bedroom place that was very nicely done up, in Angel, which the landlord was not even able to let at £250 per week, the letting agent thought he would accept something around the £220 mark (this would work out at around £475 per week each!).

The economy is doing great and there is lots of very highly paid work around. Wages are insane at the moment. When I started work as an accountant with a big four firm about 6 years ago we were paid £18k a year as new associate and this would double to about £35k when you made manager which would take 5-6 years. In the current market, as long as you're qualified, you can contract for £35-£50 per hour depending on the time of year and make an insane amount of cash. Most of my friends in other industries are all making much more money than they expected when they started work too.

I find that even after my basic expenditure and after spending what seems a ridiculous amount on going out, holdidays, etc. I save a huge amount each month (even after I allow for my tax bill - grrrr!). I'm personally very happy with this arrangement and the last thing I would want is for house (or other asset) prices to crash because I think there would be very severe repercussions for the economy as a whole and I think that I would be commanding a significantly lower wage. Possibly a £nil one!

In my view is that the economy is really currently quite good. There is a lot of demand around and wages are high. Prices are in the main, (ie, excluding houses) are very cheap and general inflation is really quite low. My philosophy is that you should just enjoy these conditions, live a nice life and don't get too obsessed with idea that you simply must own the house you live in!

Discuss.

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It seems to me that a lot of the people who post on this board are more than a little resentful of the current price of housing in this country and are very hopeful that there will be a significant correction in the near future. I'm finding it hard to understand this attitude.

I'm a (relatively) young chartered accountant and I've never owned a house. Over the last couple of years my income has grown to the extent that I could now borrow enough money to buy something quite reasonable in London where I live. However, I really don't see the need. I currently rent with two other guys and pay just over £500 a month to rent a lovely big flat in Kensington and am currently looking to move in with my girlfriend and am seeing lots of beautiful places for absolutely bargain rents in really nice locations. Just yesterday we were shown a massive one bedroom place that was very nicely done up, in Angel, which the landlord was not even able to let at £250 per week, the letting agent thought he would accept something around the £220 mark (this would work out at around £475 per week each!).

The economy is doing great and there is lots of very highly paid work around. Wages are insane at the moment. When I started work as an accountant with a big four firm about 6 years ago we were paid £18k a year as new associate and this would double to about £35k when you made manager which would take 5-6 years. In the current market, as long as you're qualified, you can contract for £35-£50 per hour depending on the time of year and make an insane amount of cash. Most of my friends in other industries are all making much more money than they expected when they started work too.

I find that even after my basic expenditure and after spending what seems a ridiculous amount on going out, holdidays, etc. I save a huge amount each month (even after I allow for my tax bill - grrrr!). I'm personally very happy with this arrangement and the last thing I would want is for house (or other asset) prices to crash because I think there would be very severe repercussions for the economy as a whole and I think that I would be commanding a significantly lower wage. Possibly a £nil one!

In my view is that the economy is really currently quite good. There is a lot of demand around and wages are high. Prices are in the main, (ie, excluding houses) are very cheap and general inflation is really quite low. My philosophy is that you should just enjoy these conditions, live a nice life and don't get too obsessed with idea that you simply must own the house you live in!

Discuss.

Or you could just pack in the UK and live in Germany and pay rent for only 350pounds a month.

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Guest Bart of Darkness
So What Exactly Is The Problem With Renting?

As someone who lives in LA rented housing, I'd say lack of security in tenancies. I could probably stay in the same place until the day I die, whereas in the private sector you can't always say for certain where you might be in a year's time.

If you find the right private landlord though, you should be OK.

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As someone who lives in LA rented housing, I'd say lack of security in tenancies. I could probably stay in the same place until the day I die, whereas in the private sector you can't always say for certain where you might be in a year's time.

If you find the right private landlord though, you should be OK.

That's the elephant in the room with renting on ASTs. For some people, e.g. the OP or me when I was the same age, renting is great - no commitment beyond a few months, no worry about maintenance, move to a new area on a whim etc etc. Once you're old and wrinkly, possibly with kids in tow, and maybe you want to live somewhere decorated to your own tastes, renting is a real pain (particularly for your kids once they're in school too).

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It seems to me that a lot of the people who post on this board are more than a little resentful of the current price of housing in this country and are very hopeful that there will be a significant correction in the near future. I'm finding it hard to understand this attitude.

I'm a (relatively) young chartered accountant and I've never owned a house. Over the last couple of years my income has grown to the extent that I could now borrow enough money to buy something quite reasonable in London where I live. However, I really don't see the need. I currently rent with two other guys and pay just over £500 a month to rent a lovely big flat in Kensington and am currently looking to move in with my girlfriend and am seeing lots of beautiful places for absolutely bargain rents in really nice locations. Just yesterday we were shown a massive one bedroom place that was very nicely done up, in Angel, which the landlord was not even able to let at £250 per week, the letting agent thought he would accept something around the £220 mark (this would work out at around £475 per week each!).

The economy is doing great and there is lots of very highly paid work around. Wages are insane at the moment. When I started work as an accountant with a big four firm about 6 years ago we were paid £18k a year as new associate and this would double to about £35k when you made manager which would take 5-6 years. In the current market, as long as you're qualified, you can contract for £35-£50 per hour depending on the time of year and make an insane amount of cash. Most of my friends in other industries are all making much more money than they expected when they started work too.

I find that even after my basic expenditure and after spending what seems a ridiculous amount on going out, holdidays, etc. I save a huge amount each month (even after I allow for my tax bill - grrrr!). I'm personally very happy with this arrangement and the last thing I would want is for house (or other asset) prices to crash because I think there would be very severe repercussions for the economy as a whole and I think that I would be commanding a significantly lower wage. Possibly a £nil one!

In my view is that the economy is really currently quite good. There is a lot of demand around and wages are high. Prices are in the main, (ie, excluding houses) are very cheap and general inflation is really quite low. My philosophy is that you should just enjoy these conditions, live a nice life and don't get too obsessed with idea that you simply must own the house you live in!

Discuss.

I agree with most of this but just remember for a moment that we are not all chartered accountants and do not earn £35 an hour contracting.

But back to your initial question the big problem is that there is no security in renting - you can be kicked out on the whim of the landlord. That and most LL's I have come across are chancing barstewards and I resent giving them my money (you know the type - take money off the deposit for there being a different number of forks in the cutlery draw when you leave - I am still waiting to be taken to court over that one.....)

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If you rent privately you have no security of tenure.

Your landlord can tell you to vacate your home at the drop of a hat - as I myself found out last week! :angry:

I really am getting fed up with this shite. :angry:

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As someone who lives in LA rented housing, I'd say lack of security in tenancies. I could probably stay in the same place until the day I die, whereas in the private sector you can't always say for certain where you might be in a year's time.

If you find the right private landlord though, you should be OK.

As a private renter for 10 years (not as long as some, but reasonable experience) in most cases I have been the one to give notice of leaving, upon which the landlord is usually disappointed. Most landlords I have come across are more pleased when you tell them you want to rent the property for several years than if you say you want a short term lease. But perhaps I have been lucky??

The only case where I was given notice was when my flatmate & her fiancee bought the flat we were renting just before they got married. I was then booted out (for obvious reasons!)

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personally i dont care for the price of houses myself, renting/buying i will go with whatever makes the most sense.

At this stage though renting makes sense, cos house prices will collapse when this utterly ridiculous mania/obsession is over with.

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If you rent privately you have no security of tenure.

Your landlord can tell you to vacate your home at the drop of a hat - as I myself found out last week! :angry:

I really am getting fed up with this shite. :angry:

Hang in there, when house prices do finally fall (assuming that's why you're renting and not buying) you can have the pleasure of chucking away 2K on surveys and legal fees for a purchase that falls through. Makes 50 quid for a spoon seem like a bargain in my experience. :(

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Aww.. c'mon this guy is so obviously trolling! Ooh! Look at all the money I have to chuck about and I'm barely out of nappies!

The clincher being:

In my view is that the economy is really currently quite good. There is a lot of demand around and wages are high. Prices are in the main, (ie, excluding houses) are very cheap and general inflation is really quite low. My philosophy is that you should just enjoy these conditions, live a nice life and don't get too obsessed with idea that you simply must own the house you live in!

:lol:

Edited by Bug16

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Trying to arrange somewhere to rent in Surrey it's getting quite tiresome now:

Agent: "Any pets?"

Me: "Yes, one cat".

Agent: "Any smokers?"

Me: "Yes".

Agent: "We don't allow smoking in any of our properties".

Me: "What other draconian clauses are in the lease - for instance, are we able to have dinner parties and stay up late?"

Agent: "All our properties are no smoking and don't allow pets"

Me: "OK, I'll try somewhere else then"

I can see why people buy their own homes.

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It seems to me that a lot of the people who post on this board are more than a little resentful of the current price of housing in this country and are very hopeful that there will be a significant correction in the near future. I'm finding it hard to understand this attitude.

I'm a (relatively) young chartered accountant and I've never owned a house. Over the last couple of years my income has grown to the extent that I could now borrow enough money to buy something quite reasonable in London where I live. However, I really don't see the need. I currently rent with two other guys and pay just over £500 a month to rent a lovely big flat in Kensington and am currently looking to move in with my girlfriend and am seeing lots of beautiful places for absolutely bargain rents in really nice locations. Just yesterday we were shown a massive one bedroom place that was very nicely done up, in Angel, which the landlord was not even able to let at £250 per week, the letting agent thought he would accept something around the £220 mark (this would work out at around £475 per week each!).

The economy is doing great and there is lots of very highly paid work around. Wages are insane at the moment. When I started work as an accountant with a big four firm about 6 years ago we were paid £18k a year as new associate and this would double to about £35k when you made manager which would take 5-6 years. In the current market, as long as you're qualified, you can contract for £35-£50 per hour depending on the time of year and make an insane amount of cash. Most of my friends in other industries are all making much more money than they expected when they started work too.

I find that even after my basic expenditure and after spending what seems a ridiculous amount on going out, holdidays, etc. I save a huge amount each month (even after I allow for my tax bill - grrrr!). I'm personally very happy with this arrangement and the last thing I would want is for house (or other asset) prices to crash because I think there would be very severe repercussions for the economy as a whole and I think that I would be commanding a significantly lower wage. Possibly a £nil one!

In my view is that the economy is really currently quite good. There is a lot of demand around and wages are high. Prices are in the main, (ie, excluding houses) are very cheap and general inflation is really quite low. My philosophy is that you should just enjoy these conditions, live a nice life and don't get too obsessed with idea that you simply must own the house you live in!

Discuss.

Funny, just had a look on a few job sites and not one had accountancy positions paying anything like the rates you quote (In London)

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Trying to arrange somewhere to rent in Surrey it's getting quite tiresome now:

Agent: "Any pets?"

Me: "Yes, one cat".

Agent: "Any smokers?"

Me: "Yes".

Agent: "We don't allow smoking in any of our properties".

Me: "What other draconian clauses are in the lease - for instance, are we able to have dinner parties and stay up late?"

Agent: "All our properties are no smoking and don't allow pets"

Me: "OK, I'll try somewhere else then"

I can see why people buy their own homes.

Er, have you tried:

Agent: "Any pets?"

Me: "No".

Agent: "Any smokers?"

Me: "No".

I have a dog and I smoke (once my dog even had a smoke). My contract forbids both. Am I bovvered? How they gonna, like, find out man?

Edited by wickywackywoo

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Aww.. c'mon this guy is so obviously trolling! Ooh! Look at all the money I have to chuck about and I'm barely out of nappies!

The clincher being:

In my view is that the economy is really currently quite good. There is a lot of demand around and wages are high.

:lol:

I'm with him there. I'm not in quite the same industry (actuary rather than accountant) but there's massive demand. There's loads of cash flying around some sectors, if you've positioned yourself well enough you can pretty well just stand there and open your wallet and wait for the money to fly in.

If you're skilled & experienced and in the right line of work things are freakin' sweet right now. Could turn with the economy for some of it, but then most real professions tend to become even more essential in a recession.

Anyway, back to the thread topic - you can't have it both ways. People can go on about how unfair it is that people have to rent and then go on about how much cheaper it is to rent than to buy. If there is a problem with renting then renting should be cheaper than buying.

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Just yesterday we were shown a massive one bedroom place that was very nicely done up, in Angel, which the landlord was not even able to let at £250 per week, the letting agent thought he would accept something around the £220 mark (this would work out at around £475 per week each!).

I assume you are using special £50 an hour chartered accountant's sums to work that out?

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Guest wrongmove
So What Exactly Is The Problem With Renting?

Come back in 25 years - you will probably have worked it out then.

Inflation is the problem. You can fix a mortgage for 25 years.

Rent is index liked. If inflation sits at just 3%, this means rent will rise by 109% over the course of the mortgage. If inflation averages say 8%, rent will rise by 580%.

Worse still, you will still be paying it in 50 years.

This is on top of security of tenure, pets, smoking and all the other niggles.

Try finding a landlord who will guarentee you tenure for life (provided you pay the rent), will fix your rent for the next 25 years, then let you off altogether until you die. Who will let you then pass the property to your kids when you die, or sell it to move abroad. Who will let you smoke and keep pets, etc. etc.

Renting is great for me at the moment, which is why I do it. But as a long term prospect, it really sucks @ss, IMHO.

Edited by wrongmove

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I assume you are using special £50 an hour chartered accountant's sums to work that out?

:lol::lol::lol:

I think the OP meant £475 a month each

220 x 52 / 12 = £953 /2 = £475 each a month approx

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:lol::lol::lol:

I think the OP meant £475 a month each

220 x 52 / 12 = £953 /2 = £475 each a month approx

No, the difference is clearly photocopying charges - or is that lawyers I'm thinking of?

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:lol:

I'm with him there. I'm not in quite the same industry (actuary rather than accountant) but there's massive demand. There's loads of cash flying around some sectors, if you've positioned yourself well enough you can pretty well just stand there and open your wallet and wait for the money to fly in.

If you're skilled & experienced and in the right line of work things are freakin' sweet right now. Could turn with the economy for some of it, but then most real professions tend to become even more essential in a recession.

Anyway, back to the thread topic - you can't have it both ways. People can go on about how unfair it is that people have to rent and then go on about how much cheaper it is to rent than to buy. If there is a problem with renting then renting should be cheaper than buying.

Let's be clear about this. Renting IS cheaper than buying at the moment. If it is not, then you are paying too much. That is, it's cheaper before even considering stamp duty, finding the deposit and maintenance. The only drawback is tenure and you should get at least 12 months out of a tenancy. Renting is the rational thing to do right now. I'm not saying sell up, but if you're in the position to buy or rent and you buy, you're nuts.

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Funny, just had a look on a few job sites and not one had accountancy positions paying anything like the rates you quote (In London)

http://www.hays.com/JobSearch/Results.aspx...o=-1&Page=1

Quite a few there :P

The point of my thread wasn't to boast. It was rather that this site gets very negative at times and that it almost seems that certain members seem to actually want to see prices crashing even if it means financial ruin for the country!

Personally, I'd rather the economy stayed strong, prices corrected slowly over time and that all the economic misery that a crash would entail was avoided (that's just me being selfish. If I have to rent in the meantime then I'm very happy to do that.

Edited by Lasertrip

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. I'm not saying sell up, but if you're in the position to buy or rent and you buy, you're nuts.

Thing is, it isn't only about money. I have seen the calculations that show that rental can be cheaper even in the long term. But moving every year or even having to wait to see whether you have to move once a year is very stressful. It's fine if you are a young couple without children - ie like the OP - but once you have other responsibilities things change. Babies are not much liked by landlords. They poo and sick up on the carpet. As they get bigger you worry about whether they're going to scribble on the walls. If you're unlucky like me, you have an 8 year old who still has poo accidents (fortunately we have an understanding LL). And then they start school. If you need to move, will you find a place convenient or will there be a school move? People often say that buying is about sentiment rather than money and it is, but that does not mean that caring about your children's stability and freedom (hey, it's part of being a kid to scribble on the wall) is not a good sentiment to help guide your decisions.

Fran (currently renting but finding it hard to give up all that independence after 25 years of being an OO)

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Let's be clear about this. Renting IS cheaper than buying at the moment. If it is not, then you are paying too much. That is, it's cheaper before even considering stamp duty, finding the deposit and maintenance. The only drawback is tenure and you should get at least 12 months out of a tenancy. Renting is the rational thing to do right now. I'm not saying sell up, but if you're in the position to buy or rent and you buy, you're nuts.

Where did I say that renting wasn't cheaper than buying? I've not found a material difference (barring stamp duty etc) on my current or previous property where I've always tracked the prices / rents of similar properties but that's another issue.

The point I was trying to make (and I think I did make if you read it) is that you can't in one instance say that renting is better than buying because it's cheaper in the short term, and in another say that renting is fundamentally not as good because there's not the long term benefits of security and fixing your mortgage cost without it inflating. The comparison needs to be of short term costs + perceived value of long term benefits, otherwise it's meaningless. Hence all the BTL people making what seems to be a stupid decision in the short term, they're putting lots of value on the long term benefits. Maybe the wrong value, but that's still what's guiding their pricing decisions.

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There is no problem with renting. I have been renting for 24 years. In fact I like it so much I now rent two properties. One for the week near my work which is convenient and very cheap and another for the weekend and holidays which is larger and less convenient but still very cheap. Both landlords are very keen for me to stay and I get on well with both of them.

When buying becomes cheaper than renting which wil be when the BOE drops interest rates and the economy is in recession and no one wants to buy a house then I will buy - unless of course rents have fallen by 80% by then.

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Nothing wrong with renting, most of the planet do it. When you are young you should NEVER want a mortgage as it is simply a millstone around your neck. As you have correctly identified you also enjoy a higher quality of life as you can afford a nicer place. Buying is extremely expensive and the responsibility never goes away. If the roof leaks and the boiler blows up you will be paying big bucks to get it fixed.

I don't smoke and I hate animals so I have never had any problem with landlords. Now that the government has introduced new deposit holding schemes another headache disappears. As for moving, well I know plenty of people who up sticks every 1-2 years from one owned property to another as they try to negotiate their way up that slippery ol ladder. Doesn't seem to bother people when they buy but seems to be a problem when you rent.

I have never had any problems with any landlords but have had major problems with builders. I did buy a new build flat which caused no end of headaches. Also, please note that as a buyer of property you have no protection in the eyes of the law. You have more protection if you buy a kettle than if you part with large sums of money for a badly built new property.

As for the economy, well it may seem like it is in good condition, but I suspect you and everyone on this forum is in for a very rude awakening. My advice is, enjoy today, for tomorrow is a whole new adventure, and one not for the faint of heart.

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