B T L To Double In Next 5 Years

[Realistbear]

http://www.moneyextra.com/news/news-landlo...ios-033433.html

Landlords' portfolios to double

New landlords expect their portfolios to double over the next five years - rising from an average of 1.8 properties now, to 4.0 properties, according to new research by Mortgage Trust. And in contrast to reports about landlords being stretched by interest rates, they actually remain upbeat about the long-term outlook.

More millionaires in the making as property empires look set to go into hyper-mode growth in the days ahead. With a willing Gordon and compliant credit market who knows? The only question for BTLers is whether they feel lucky as Great Crash II makes landfall in the UK.

[sossij]

http://www.moneyextra.com/news/news-landlo...ios-033433.html

Landlords' portfolios to double

New landlords expect their portfolios to double

over the next five years - rising from an average of 1.8 properties now, to 4.0 properties, according to new research by Mortgage Trust. And in contrast to reports about landlords being stretched by interest rates, they actually remain upbeat about the long-term outlook.

More millionaires in the making as property empires look set to go into hyper-mode growth in the days ahead. With a willing Gordon and compliant credit market who knows? The only question for BTLers is whether they feel lucky as Great Crash II makes landfall in the UK.

There's a big difference between "I want" and "I get"

[Nick..]

"Landlords remain upbeat"

...about making it twice as hard for FTBs to become home owners

utter c*nts

[Wait & See]

"Landlords remain upbeat"

...about making it twice as hard for FTBs to become home owners

utter c*nts

This fu*cking BTL nonsence needs to be stopped.

Second, third and forth mortgages should be banned - See how all the ar*eholes like that one.

By all means be a BTL Landlord - now lets see the 500k in cash to become one.

Edited August 2, 2007 by Wait & See

[dstars]

This fu*cking BTL nonsence needs to be stopped.

Second, third and forth mortgages should be banned - See how all the ar*eholes like that one.

By all means be a BTL Landlord - now lets see the 500k in cash to become one.

But this is required to help foment a crash. If market participants acted rationally crashes would never occur.

Landlords should and must be encouraged to keep whipping prices. Landlords will probably be the last people buying as they represent the greediest sector of a greedy market.

[sossij]

But this is required to help foment a crash. If market participants acted rationally crashes would never occur.

Landlords should and must be encouraged to keep whipping prices. Landlords will probably be the last people buying as they represent the greediest sector of a greedy market.

"You go, son! You're gonna make a packet... honest!"

Funnily enough, I have long suspected that the mortgage companies, estate agents etc. require the market to crash otherwise they can't make any money. The parasites need the whole greasy escalator to start all over again with a new set of fat, juicy prey for them to bleed dry.

You can only squeeze the sponge so dry before it needs another dunk in the bucket.

Edit: mixing far too many metaphors.

Edited August 2, 2007 by sossij

[Smell the Fear]

Remember TTRTR?

Have you any idea how rich that chump must be now?

HPC pipe dreams.........

[roadtoruin]

"Landlords remain upbeat"

...about making it twice as hard for FTBs to become home owners

utter c*nts

Quite.

Essentially BTLs have made many FTBs - or just buyers generally - pay much more for their house than they would otherwise have done, or forced them to continue renting (paying their BTL mortgage) when they wanted to buy; (understand, nothing against renting vs. OO, just making the ramping-price point).

So the b*stards get the less well off to buy their portfolio for them, and we think/hope that HPC2 will take a lot of them out, but unfortunately those who BTL'd early enough are probably safe. What I'd like to know is how much have they really increased the average property price by? If we could quantify that we'd know how much they have 'stolen from' everyone who has pay BTL-inflated prices in the last, say, 5 years ? I reckon 15-20K, but it's just an anecdotal guess...

[dogbox]

LL I know makes a net profit after mortgage and other costs of c£25000 pa on 13 flats.

He's a quiet thoughtful type not a flash salivating cliche.

Whilst not a huge profit he appears a very happy individual who spends most of his time travelling from camp site to camp site on his motor bike accross Europe.

I asked him how he would feel about a crash and he replied "my income will remain largely intact and may even increase as mortgage defaulters need to rent"

He is offering on another property as I type and on that one expects no rental surplus - honestly he really is calm about falling prices and one of those long term view takers.

[Si1]

I don't think there' much gradation between optimism and pessimism in the personalities we're talking about. That's how booms and busts have happened in the past. The only thing that's made btl work in the last 5 years on average has been asset appreciation, that's why it's a bubble and hard to predict the start or the end.

[roadtoruin]

LL I know makes a net profit after mortgage and other costs of c£25000 pa on 13 flats.

He's a quiet thoughtful type not a flash salivating cliche.

Whilst not a huge profit he appears a very happy individual who spends most of his time travelling from camp site to camp site on his motor bike accross Europe.

I asked him how he would feel about a crash and he replied "my income will remain largely intact and may even increase as mortgage defaulters need to rent"

He is offering on another property as I type and on that one expects no rental surplus - honestly he really is calm about falling prices and one of those long term view takers.

However 25K a year plus eventual capital gain on top is not enough.

Quiet thoughtful greedy tw@t then.

[Fergie]

To be honest, I don't have a problem with people investing in BTL. Many people do it quite sensibly, ie don't over-stretch, are good LLs, provide decent places for the tenents, whatever. What bothers me (and why I think there'll be a crash) is that there are too many idiots entering the market who see it as free money. The don't give a toss about the tenent - they're just a pain in the a**e to them - and think they have a God given right to have their mortgage paid off and make a fortune.

I met one guy in the pub recently, for example, who was chucking money about like crazy, buying drinks for the whole pub and talking loudly about his marvellous property profits and BTL. Turned out he had one flat that he'd bought to live in, then rented out when he moved which he bought for £50,000 a few years ago and is now worth £90,000 He hadn't even sold the thing yet and he had a second mortgage on his new place. I didn't have the heart to tell him that £40,000 really isn't that much and that maybe acting like a tit, throwing it away buying drinks for strangers probably woudn't make him rich in the long term.

Edited August 2, 2007 by Fergie

[needle]

Remember TTRTR?

Have you any idea how rich that chump must be now?

HPC pipe dreams.........

He's alive and well

Long term investment = short term investment gone wrong.

[ScaredEitherWay]

New landlords expect their portfolios to double over the next five years - rising from an average of 1.8 properties now, to 4.0 properties, according to new research by Mortgage Trust.

Was this study carried out like most taste panels?

Blinkered/blindfold?

That would explain it.

[Guest tbatst2000]

http://www.moneyextra.com/news/news-landlo...ios-033433.html

Landlords' portfolios to double

New landlords expect their portfolios to double over the next five years - rising from an average of 1.8 properties now, to 4.0 properties, according to new research by Mortgage Trust. And in contrast to reports about landlords being stretched by interest rates, they actually remain upbeat about the long-term outlook.

More millionaires in the making as property empires look set to go into hyper-mode growth in the days ahead. With a willing Gordon and compliant credit market who knows? The only question for BTLers is whether they feel lucky as Great Crash II makes landfall in the UK.

In a strange kind of way, this may not end that badly. Most BTLers will claim they're doing it for a pension and, whether they like it or not, they probably will end up doing it for that reason. Someone that buys a load of BTL properties and finds themselves in negative equity land will be faced with selling up for a loss, which they probably won't have the cash to do, or continuing to pay the mortgages, which they might just be able to manage if rents hold up. This is unlike a normal pension arrangement which people can, and mostly do, stop paying into the moment their finances get stretched. People who make it through the 25 or 30 years of the mortgage in this way will then actually have a pension income and, at least, will not end up scrounging off the state because they decided to spend what money they had on beer/fags/makeup/whatever when they were younger. Sort of unexpected forced pension savings. Of course, the stress of it all might mean they don't make it as far as not having to work 2 jobs to avoid being bankrupted.

[hourkid]

http://www.moneyextra.com/news/news-landlo...ios-033433.html

Landlords' portfolios to double

New landlords expect their portfolios to double over the next five years - rising from an average of 1.8 properties now, to 4.0 properties, according to new research by Mortgage Trust. And in contrast to reports about landlords being stretched by interest rates, they actually remain upbeat about the long-term outlook.

More millionaires in the making as property empires look set to go into hyper-mode growth in the days ahead. With a willing Gordon and compliant credit market who knows? The only question for BTLers is whether they feel lucky as Great Crash II makes landfall in the UK.

... because, as the price of flats fall and all the flakey BTLers run for the doors, there will be a nice (wo)man with a smile on her/his face who'll be only too happy to take on the asset, at a substantial discount of course, in anticipation of the next upward wave. It's a market. Prices: they go up, they go down. Timing is a mugs game. As you know.

[bigsmelly]

Seriously,

If HPC happened tomorrow and you had the cash to buy a number of properties, with yields of 10%pa, who wouldn't?

[hourkid]

Seriously,

If HPC happened tomorrow and you had the cash to buy a number of properties, with yields of 10%pa, who wouldn't?

10% relative to what? 20% from a bank account? It always has to be relative. 10% relative to 5.5% in the bank and it's a no-brainer.

[apom]

Remember TTRTR?

Have you any idea how rich that chump must be now?

HPC pipe dreams.........

TTRTR, He dropped from sight durring a thread when someone pointed out that with rising interest rates and costs many stretched homeowners would be forced to:

1: Rent out a room

2: Move back with parents and rent their home out in its entirety

Both of these points were perfect logic and the poster had evidence of this happening in the last crash.

TTRTR had no response to the predicted drop in rent and massive increase in rental competition and never posted again.

It seems that it was no Time To Raise The Rents at all.

(Note: I never saw him again and he had no repsonse to the above argument, but he might have been about again...)

[roadtoruin]

10% relative to what? 20% from a bank account? It always has to be relative. 10% relative to 5.5% in the bank and it's a no-brainer.

It's not a no-brainer. For some (call us sad losers if you must) BTL for pure greed is unethical and exploitative.

[Realistbear]

"Landlords remain upbeat"

...about making it twice as hard for FTBs to become home owners

utter c*nts

"upbeat" is apt but the favourite word among EAs in the BTL business prefer the term "bouyant" when referring to the BTL market. You have to remember that Gordon promised a boom without a bust and a new landlord class that would make HPI perpetual. Without ever rising HPI the ability to MEW would fail and the miracle economy would not work. A new breed of landlrods with an entrepreneurial spirit along with millions of immigrants to fill the rental homes is all part of the vision for a Britain under Brown.

IMO, it is not so much a "Miracle" as it is a nightmare.

[A Fool & His Borrowed Money]

They were in it for the long haul in 1989, breaking even in 2001.

On the other hand, those that had bought in 1995 rather than 89 made a mint by 2001.

Comprende, in it for the long term-ers?

[the end is a bit nigher]

Essentially BTLs have made many FTBs - or just buyers generally - pay much more for their house than they would otherwise have done, or forced them to continue renting (paying their BTL mortgage) when they wanted to buy; (understand, nothing against renting vs. OO, just making the ramping-price point).

Good point and also where the banks come in. By offering BTL mortgages they have opened up the LL market to hundreds of thousands who would never have been able to be landlords in the past. To be a LL you used to have 'real' money i.e. it was yours - now you can borrow it - as you correctly say, this has made fellow citizens have to pay more somewhere to live - this is different to a share or other investment which is really just a bet - houses are places that people stay in to keep warm and dry and as a result, fairly healthey - the banks and BTLers have made this harder for all

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

B T L To Double In Next 5 Years

I wonder if Lea will once again be up for it, now there`s a Lass who learnt the hard way.

[HPC Convert]

This fu*cking BTL nonsence needs to be stopped.

Second, third and forth mortgages should be banned - See how all the ar*eholes like that one.

By all means be a BTL Landlord - now lets see the 500k in cash to become one.

If you are demanding a return to cash, are you saying your employer should have readily available,debt free pot of cash in order to pay your salary at the end of each month?

No, i thought not.