Why One Woman Graduate In Three Will Never Be A Mother

[Snow Birds]

Which is supremely hypocritical, coming from someone who has a home provided rent free by his employer.

There is another reason, I think, why the birth rate among non-immigrant communities is falling. Family law is now so discriminatory against men that many are now simply not prepared to take the risk of a relationship breaking up after becoming fathers. The consequences are huge, even if the man is at no fault whatsoever (e.g. he is working hard to sustain the family unit and she goes off and has an affair): there is a very high risk that he will end up homeless, with a large proportion of his income taken from him indefinitely and that he will not be allowed to see his children or play any part in their upbringing, apart from paying for it. In immigrant communities (especially Hindu, Sikh and Muslim ones), in which militant feminism has not become an inherent part of the culture, even if, theoretically, it could still be applied in law, men do not face the same level of disincentive.

Along with the cost of housing and living, this is another important reason why I would be very reluctant to start a family and would absolutely refuse to get married (cohabitation on the basis of a legally abiding agreement fair to both parties - yes ; marriage - absolutely no).

Absolutely spot on. If I had a son, all daughters thankfully, I would have to advise him not to get married or even cohabitation and having kids is just crazy. The law is an ass and men have to protect their own asses. The result is that only poor men are available as fathers. Nice going feminists!

[Girly girl]

Hmmm well I have seen both sides of the coin my husband handed everything over to his first wife when they split up, he had an affair - not with me I should add - and so she took him to the cleaners even without children.

But then on the other hand my own mother walked away from 2 marriages with nothing but suitcases and 2 kids both times, so the men did rather well out of that scenerio.

Having said all that the reason I (we) are here today is because we didn't trust enough as a couple to sell our 2 bed flats 9 years ago and throw our lot into together, if we'd had a bit more faith in our relationship we'd be sitting very pretty now.

Oh and I am a woman graduate and I have 4 children so I guess I got somebody elses share

[sophia]

I was 27 when we had our first child (kid is an animal). Second a few years later. It wasn't the "right" time in terms of the financial outlook as the Missus earned more than me at the time. We were pretty well "broke"-whatever that is, for a few years but they were the best years of my life. Would I swap em for a flatscreen? Yea right. Bottom line-it's NEVER the right time.

I was 26 when we had our first and second a few years later. I was earning more than my husband and I'm a female graduate. We were pretty broke like yourselves, but I never missed the material stuff and adapted our lifestyles to meet our income on one salary. These are the happiest years of my life.

I have no regrets about having my children and leaving work to look after them. Work was cr@p anyway!

There is never a right time to have kids.

I still don't own a flat screen (no point, it would probably be smeared with yoghurt).

[dgj]

It is in a persons DNA to reproduce and although on a concious level some people may say they do not children, unconciously everyone wants to reproduce!

[ChadzKhan]

Yes it is. But childcare isn't. From the dawn of time until very recently families took care of their own. My Nan looked after me in the 60's and 70's when Mum went back and worked part time. My brother and I have integrated each others children into our lives so we can all work if we choose to.

This concept that childcare should be 'cheap' is nonsense and just another example of the consumerist god less society we have become.

We all have choices - if your family aren't close , marry into one that is, take into account the cost of that job when chasing a 10k pay rise half way across the country, build a network of friends to support you.

Or choose a lifestyle you can afford on one wage (helps to be married to an old fashioned guy who can do two jobs and not complain to feed his family) - dying breed in my experience too soft an upbringing mid seventies on.

All choices and plenty more to be made -i.e run your own thing.

Your choice not the systems fault.

+1 Couldn't agree more, A close family is worth its weight in gold. But it seems ppl get annoyed with their family members far too easily nowadays a bit of patience and understanding that the individual him/her self is not perfect would make individuals think again before severing all ties.

Too many want to chase the dream and live the lifestyles the media feeds them which they perceive to be true. No one is willing to make any compromises, The I want it all and i should get it attitude is rife.

But on a side note i am 30 something so don't tar us all

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Yes it is. But childcare isn't. From the dawn of time until very recently families took care of their own. My Nan looked after me in the 60's and 70's when Mum went back and worked part time. My brother and I have integrated each others children into our lives so we can all work if we choose to.

This concept that childcare should be 'cheap' is nonsense and just another example of the consumerist god less society we have become.

We all have choices - if your family aren't close , marry into one that is, take into account the cost of that job when chasing a 10k pay rise half way across the country, build a network of friends to support you.

Or choose a lifestyle you can afford on one wage (helps to be married to an old fashioned guy who can do two jobs and not complain to feed his family) - dying breed in my experience too soft an upbringing mid seventies on.

All choices and plenty more to be made -i.e run your own thing.

Your choice not the systems fault.

Not that simple though is it? IIRC you were an electrical apprentice? so left school at 16 and found work locally? Made a massive success of yourself through a fortuante period?

fast forward 20 years, and where are we? the push to university where typically children move away and once that's happened its easy to stay away from your roots etc. Lost a lot of the mass employment work of old to be replaced by supermarket/mcjobs. Add a sprinkle of HPI which makes it hard to even live anywhere nice let alone own your home and the benefits dependancy system and I wouldn't see things as directly comparable.

fwiw, I'm in your last camp, my wife and I are a long way from family but we manage between us on my salary. The sacrifice? a cramped flat in a bad area. Would moving nearer to family help? not when parents still work and grandparents are infirm.

I personally don't want cheaper childcare, I want a cheaper way of life so that every parent need not work.

[Badhairday]

It is in a persons DNA to reproduce and although on a concious level some people may say they do not children, unconciously everyone wants to reproduce!

I have no desire to have kids. When people quiz me about this, they usually ask me who is going to look after me in my old age.

I dont think its in a persons DNA to reproduce. Whats in a persons DNA first and foremost is, the self preservation urge. I think most people used to have children as some kind of old age insurance policy. But in this age, kids are not important in that respect and so people question if they really want/need children.

I always imagined I would have 4 kids or so. And then I met my partner who did not want any, and my first instinct when I heard that was.......shock and then.....relief.

I'm not convinced the housing boom is to blame for smaller families. Surely, the increase in BTL and constructions means less rents and more disposable income for babby? Certainly, tin he area I am familiar with (Ilford), the rents are very reasonable for large 5 bedroomed houses.

[Laughing Gnome]

This really annoys me. I am a graduate (3 degrees) with a great career, a great family and another kid on the way. You can have it all. What I don't have is a house, it's not that we can't afford one, it's just that I am not prepared to pay �200K for an ex-council tiny box. Now, we have a long term rent until we find a place we really want to live and I don't need to worry about paying off debt whilst shelling out on high child care costs because renting is cheap. And yes, maybe I am a little less concerned as we inadvertently STRd (moved area - never found anything we liked at a price we'd be prepared to pay) and have a bit of cash in the bank. I have read a number of posts from people saying they have had to buy as they have young children. Rubbish - I am quite firmly of the belief that my kids will not be in any way disadvantaged by growing up in rented accommodation. In reality any woman claiming that she can't have kids because of the cost of having a mortgage should find a cheaper way to live if she really wants to have that family.

I think you miss the point. It's the cost of housing, not the price of houses.

Rent is frequently higher than mortgage costs, and if you managed to negotiate a low rent, you are likely to get the heave-ho when things look better for the landlord. Change of schools for the kids? Not helpful.

As someone with three degrees I would have thought you could work that out, or was that 'with the Three Degrees'.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Laughing Gnome

[guitarman001]

If you wanted children this would be the last thing on your mind you passion less scrote

Thanks for that. Consequently the other reason is that I just don't want kids. I'd rather live a different life to others I know, spend my money on making it a bit more interesting - I don't see why wanting kids is linked to passion.

Edited September 14, 2009 by thomasross20