the_duke_of_hazzard Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re-read the thread. I said gambling winnings were tax free early on: "All those brains and tax free..." Why would I then make something up about a supposedly "complex" tax avoidance scheme? For the fun of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry AKA Pod Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 You have one of the strangest signatures.... It's original. Should I have quoted George Bernard Shaw instead? Signatures are one of the most pointless things I can think of. That's why I have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 lol. Whatever makes you happy pal.I can't be ar5ed going through this any more but you did claim specifically that your friend had income tax avoidance scheme to avoid paying tax on winnings, not simply a business where he could claim vat back on hardware etc. How can that be a mistake? You were caught out and your story became ever more elaborate since then. yes- its fishy- in order to be VAT registered, you have to turn over something like £45,000 (lost touch with the figure, so maybe more), so this guy MUST be SELLING something in order to qualify as a VAT registered Company/individual- Otherwise, arbs loks like hard work to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_duke_of_hazzard Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 yes- its fishy- in order to be VAT registered, you have to turn over something like £45,000 (lost touch with the figure, so maybe more), so this guy MUST be SELLING something in order to qualify as a VAT registered Company/individual- Otherwise, arbs loks like hard work to me Once again... He has two entities. One is a betting syndicate - which is tax free - which buys software from a software company, which operates "independently" a VAT-free company, producing the software, renting the office space etc.. He has fingers in other software pies too, which are much less lucrative. If you don't believe me, fine, but why are you all getting so stressed about it? Arbs is quite hard work - he uses some pretty clever maths to cut down search spaces to cover all the different possibilities through the different bet types - but the principle is quite simple and many others are trying it. You also need contacts among the bookies to be able to lay large bets off quickly and increase your range of betting options. There's one customer bigger than him on Betfair - from Belgium I think - who take positions, so are a little different. Since I last wrote he's incorporated spread betting. Sounds risky to me, but I guess he knows what he's doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Once again...He has two entities. One is a betting syndicate - which is tax free - which buys software from a software company, which operates "independently" a VAT-free company, producing the software, renting the office space etc.. He has fingers in other software pies too, which are much less lucrative. If you don't believe me, fine, but why are you all getting so stressed about it? Arbs is quite hard work - he uses some pretty clever maths to cut down search spaces to cover all the different possibilities through the different bet types - but the principle is quite simple and many others are trying it. You also need contacts among the bookies to be able to lay large bets off quickly and increase your range of betting options. There's one customer bigger than him on Betfair - from Belgium I think - who take positions, so are a little different. Since I last wrote he's incorporated spread betting. Sounds risky to me, but I guess he knows what he's doing. I amsure you are right about himclaiming to be a genius etc etc- but it appears to me that you are on the outside of his dealings, and you are trying to justify what he is doing and defending yourself- Its all a bit pointless- YES hes rich, yes hes telling you its all so easy, yes hes telling you hes got a tax problem, and yes, youve taken it all as true- I think you should not be taking this all so personally. Ive met plenty of people who do this type of thing, they tell you a load of things, some true, the rest to blow themselves up.- They usually drive an X5 BMW although I am not sure why this type of vehicle attracts this type of person Good luckto you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_duke_of_hazzard Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 I amsure you are right about himclaiming to be a genius etc etc- but it appears to me that you are on the outside of his dealings, and you are trying to justify what he is doing and defending yourself- Its all a bit pointless- YES hes rich, yes hes telling you its all so easy, yes hes telling you hes got a tax problem, and yes, youve taken it all as true- I think you should not be taking this all so personally. Ive met plenty of people who do this type of thing, they tell you a load of things, some true, the rest to blow themselves up.- They usually drive an X5 BMW although I am not sure why this type of vehicle attracts this type of person Good luckto you Fair enough, but he doesn't drive, he rents a flat and is usually pretty miserable. He's more interested in obscure programming languages and frameworks, or learning Russian than flaunting his wealth. The only reason I got into this "debate" is that I wanted to get the point over that it is possible to make money by arbs on betting. And it is. It's making decent money that's hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 You are right, It is possible to make money on arbs- indeed, I beleive the banks do it on the money markets too. I dont know anyhting about betfair, but it looks like those poor people on MSE were led astray but what appeared to be a foolproof system- more fool them for notinvestigating closely, Whats your freinds phone number?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDavola Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 It also shows the get-rich-for-doing-nothing attitude that is so prevalent in the UK today. Christ, does no-one work at a job nowadays. My thoughts exactly. And now they don't want to pay back their debt. I hope they all get bankrupted. Oh, and Duke's story is totally believable. The big obstacle to overcome with Betfair bots is getting the bets on fast enough, being faster than all the other bots out there. If his friend has done that, then fair play to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abaxas Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 LADS IRE 17-00 Curr Celtic Dane 0->Celtic Dane 11.00 10.00 (4.00) 3sec BINT IRE 17-00 Curr Monthly Medal 0->Monthly Medal 11.00 10.50 (22.00) 22sec WILL IRE 17-00 Curr Mooretown Lady 0->Mooretown Lady 8.00 6.60 (50.00) 196sec LADS IRE 17-00 Curr Mooretown Lady 0->Mooretown Lady 7.00 6.60 (50.00) 3sec SJ IRE 17-00 Curr Mooretown Lady 0->Mooretown Lady 7.50 6.60 (50.00) 8sec BDIR IRE 17-00 Curr Mooretown Lady 0->Mooretown Lady 8.00 6.60 (50.00) 20sec SPDS GB 17-05 MrktR Mystic Glen 0->Mystic Glen 17.00 16.00 (15.00) 58sec LADS IRE 17-50 Clon Stepchange 0->Stepchange 15.00 13.00 (77.00) Correct at 1648 Arbers please give me a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver surfer Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 I don't pretend to make anywhere near £500k a year using betfair, but I do make a tidy sum from my gambling activities and the money all has to come from somewhere. That'd be me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver surfer Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 You are right, It is possible to make money on arbs- indeed, I beleive the banks do it on the money markets too. When a takeover is announced the share price of the target company is almost always lower than the offer price. As the takeover progresses and the various hurdles are overcome the gap gets smaller and smaller, but usually there's still a gap right until the very last moment. One arbitrage ploy is to follow the action and if the price gap iss too much in your opinion relative to the risks of the deal not being consumated then take a punt. But like all these strategies, after a protracted period of market calm and predictability investors get too cocky and underestimate the risks, then suddenly they're being caught out just when they start placing really big bets. Hedge funds have been described as darting in to pick up pennies in front of a moving steamroller. Well in the last few weeks the steamroller has accelerated and lurched forward. In my opinion there's quite a few BTL landlords that are going to get squashed under that steamroller over the next few years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a j Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 yes- its fishy- in order to be VAT registered, you have to turn over something like £45,000 (lost touch with the figure, so maybe more), so this guy MUST be SELLING something in order to qualify as a VAT registered Company/individual- Not true - you can VAT register with no revenues. There is a level of turnover where you must register - is that what you are thinking of? Many start ups and small businesses register for VAT to recover the input VAT. If you only sell to VAT registered entities the only reason not to reclaim is to avoid the admin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Well, yes, you can Apply for voluntary registration below the threshold, but you have to prove you are a business, and then have to account for output tax, etc etc- If you have no sales, then you will not be able to keep the VAT status as you will not be regarded as a business. If you do this just to reclaim tax, that could be held as tax evasion and is criminal. So i woud contend, that the chap is actually selling something, not just gambling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianb78 Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 A good technique I've come across is to lay the draw in a football match before kick-off. When a goal goes in the odds rise and you can lock in profit by backing a draw. Only downside is if it ends 0-0 (approx 7% matches worldwide end in this result). You can however redcuce losses on this outcome by backing the at around 70-75 mins if it remains goalless (stats show that matches 0-0 at this time are likely to end this way) Prob get shot down in flames but what the hell!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_duke_of_hazzard Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Well, yes, you can Apply for voluntary registration below the threshold, but you have to prove you are a business, and then have to account for output tax, etc etc- If you have no sales, then you will not be able to keep the VAT status as you will not be regarded as a business. If you do this just to reclaim tax, that could be held as tax evasion and is criminal.So i woud contend, that the chap is actually selling something, not just gambling Read my posts again. He has two companies - one sells software to the second, a betting syndicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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