dog Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 In the 'real' private sector, jobs are disappearing like snow in spring. Sun Alliance A few days ago I concluded that the government have been 'buying' up to 300,000 new jobs a year. The basis of this claim was: Public spending is rising by £20 billion a year. Assume that 5.882 million public servants got a 4% pay rise. This accounts for £7 billion which means that an extra £13 billion of new spending each year. If 70% of this money ends up as salaries (public sector and government funded contracts), it is equivalent to 300,000 jobs (at £30K). The government have created phoney jobs by the million. They include 'make busy' public sector jobs, administrators, advisors and business consultants. They alos proudly point to the rising number of jobs in the private sector. But these are not genuine private sector jobs. They are just private companies living of tax payers money. We are paying £20 billion to private contractors for a hospital computer system that doctors don't like. We are paying £10 billion for an identity card system that we don't want. We are paying huge subsidies to private rail companies for the worst train service in the world. We funding infrastructure projects that we won't have the money to look after. What is so concerning is that the destructive consequences of Gordon's asset stripping will take a long time to bite. How can the economists and politcal commentators be so stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xurbia Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 In the 'real' private sector, jobs are disappearing like snow in spring. Sun Alliance A few days ago I concluded that the government have been 'buying' up to 300,000 new jobs a year. The basis of this claim was: The government have created phoney jobs by the million. They include 'make busy' public sector jobs, administrators, advisors and business consultants. They alos proudly point to the rising number of jobs in the private sector. But these are not genuine private sector jobs. They are just private companies living of tax payers money. We are paying £20 billion to private contractors for a hospital computer system that doctors don't like. We are paying £10 billion for an identity card system that we don't want. We are paying huge subsidies to private rail companies for the worst train service in the world. We funding infrastructure projects that we won't have the money to look after. What is so concerning is that the destructive consequences of Gordon's asset stripping will take a long time to bite. How can the economists and politcal commentators be so stupid. I totally concur. I haven't got a clue what is holding the economy afloat. At some point this whole sorry mess will unravel at great speed. I was trying to understand why the BoE is so very interested in the correlation between the consumer and house-prices. I think we may all find out in due course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realistbear Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 What's wrong? Don't we all believe in "Miracles" and the Scot who worked them? When Gordon is rumbled there is going to be hell to pay in the financial markets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apom Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 I totally concur. I haven't got a clue what is holding the economy afloat. At some point this whole sorry mess will unravel at great speed. I was trying to understand why the BoE is so very interested in the correlation between the consumer and house-prices. I think we may all find out in due course. Used to make me cross.. Now.. I have protected myself.. and I find it funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grumpy-old-man Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 (edited) In the 'real' private sector, jobs are disappearing like snow in spring. Sun Alliance A few days ago I concluded that the government have been 'buying' up to 300,000 new jobs a year. The basis of this claim was: The government have created phoney jobs by the million. They include 'make busy' public sector jobs, administrators, advisors and business consultants. They alos proudly point to the rising number of jobs in the private sector. But these are not genuine private sector jobs. They are just private companies living of tax payers money. We are paying £20 billion to private contractors for a hospital computer system that doctors don't like. We are paying £10 billion for an identity card system that we don't want. We are paying huge subsidies to private rail companies for the worst train service in the world. We funding infrastructure projects that we won't have the money to look after. What is so concerning is that the destructive consequences of Gordon's asset stripping will take a long time to bite. How can the economists and politcal commentators be so stupid. good post Dog there's no going back either. What I don't understand is that these huge projects always go massively over budget, in fact do a google on any major UK run project & they all go 2-3 times (& more) over budget. How is this possible!!! forgot to add - I can just imagine what the 2012 olympics will be like have you seen the Lee Evans sketch, their all coming round the first corner of the 400 metres & 7 of the lanes are "coned off", the long jump has builders borrowing sand from the pit etc Edited June 21, 2006 by grumpy-old-man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xurbia Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 good post Dog there's no going back either. What I don't understand is that these huge projects always go massively over budget, in fact do a google on any major UK run project & they all go 2-3 times (& more) over budget. How is this possible!!! This is easy to answer. Apparently it only cost about £3.40 for all the software and hardware but the training came in at 20 billion. There will come a time when it will be cheaper to offer everyone a tax cut and the government tells us all to f**k off and get a BUPA plan. .... there is another reason: they are a bunch of overpaid feckless w**kers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grumpy-old-man Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 "17 June 2006 £14BN OVER BUDGET ..TWO YEARS LATE Yes.. it's ANOTHER government computer fiasco By Oonagh Blackman Political Editor A MASSIVE computer project to link 30,000 GPs to nearly 300 hospitals could end up £14billion over budget and two years late, it was claimed yesterday. The original price tag for the plan, due to go online in 2012, was £6.2billion. It is now £12.4billion but is predicted to rise to £20billion" mindblowing over budget figures, I mean IT salaries havn't really changed much since dot con have they, hardware has come down in price........so where has it gone ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shermanator Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 I totally concur. I haven't got a clue what is holding the economy afloat. At some point this whole sorry mess will unravel at great speed. I was trying to understand why the BoE is so very interested in the correlation between the consumer and house-prices. I think we may all find out in due course. Is this economy really afloat? Personally, I thinks it's sinking fast under a sea of debt, unemployment, real world inflation, dead housing market, dead high street and rising taxation. I think we've got a one way ticket to a recession in the 1st qtr of next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xurbia Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Is this economy really afloat? Personally, I thinks it's sinking fast under a sea of debt, unemployment, real world inflation, dead housing market, dead high street and rising taxation. I think we've got a one way ticket to a recession in the 1st qtr of next year. It is quite contraversial for you to suggest RECESSION! That's two of us now. Probably best to be a doctor or to work in the Citizen's Advice Bureau if you want job stability next year! Then again the CAB people will need Prozac, so best just to be a doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichB Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 I have said as much for a year or so now. Its Blairs socialist utopia. I gather about 1 in 4 people work for the government now, and online polls I have made in some forums seem to reflect that. Remember in the victorian era they used to make extensive road/canal/bridge/house building exercises to employ folk. Wonder if all this house construction is just another face of that? Me? I work in online gambling... proper private sector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonification Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 (edited) Much of the private sector is dependent on public sector business, so the true figure is far higher than 1 in 4. Its probably closer to the overall level of taxation (41%). To study the health of the structure of the economy, its better to compare exporters with everyone else. Edited June 21, 2006 by tonification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FollowTheBear Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 This is easy to answer. Apparently it only cost about £3.40 for all the software and hardware but the training came in at 20 billion. There will come a time when it will be cheaper to offer everyone a tax cut and the government tells us all to f**k off and get a BUPA plan. .... there is another reason: they are a bunch of overpaid feckless w**kers. True story: GPs are so resistant to change the NHS has been paying them 96p every time they book a patient on the new system. In any other walk of life they would be fined for not using the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeless Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 in the private sector, if you go over budget you can whistle in the wind for anymore money. the opposite happens in the public sector, so private buissnesses play on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 in the private sector, if you go over budget you can whistle in the wind for anymore money.the opposite happens in the public sector, so private buissnesses play on this Exactly: in government jobs the incentives are completely backwards, which is precisely why government ******s everything up. Do a bad job and you get more money, do a good job and you get less money. Once you understand that, it's immediately obvious why government makes problems worse in 99% of cases: they're literally _paid to do so_. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prude Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Perhaps uniquely on here I work 2 jobs to help enable us to make ends meet, one is part time (22hrs) private - the other (full time) public. The evidence I have from these 2 employments is that neither is fully efficient but the public service is a far more open, accountable, honest and worthwhile endeavour. The pay in the private sector job is low and the terms and conditions of employment are not good (sick pay entitlement etc) yet there are many high powered sports cars in the management car park. There is genuine team spirit in the public sector job whilst the private one feels like them and us (workers and management). Both organisations put out fraudulent statistics to justify their existence and claim successes that extend reality. I would argue strongely with those who blindly state, without personal experience "public sector (bad) - inefficient - but private sector (good) - efficient). The reality (as with everything) is that organisations (regardless of their basis for existence) vary widely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimmmm Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 (edited) I am sure that there are many public workers who do an excellent job. The point is that there has been a massive increase in the amount of people employed in the public sector under Labour without any real need for them to do the jobs they are given. This is old Labour full employment without the banner. It also helps at election time, beacuse as sure as eggs is eggs, the Conservatives would get rid of these employees. Edited June 22, 2006 by nimmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog Posted June 22, 2006 Author Share Posted June 22, 2006 There are still dedicated public employees but they are an endangered species these days. The ethos of Public service has become self service. Polically neutral has become polically correct. Public service has turned to public control. The problems of car parking is case in point. Our public servants have turned a legitimate exercise in controlling parking into the vicious exploitation of drivers for money. Almost every aspect of our contact with public servants these days is controlled by fines and punishments. They seem to be morphing into some sort of KGB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrhappy Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 "17 June 2006 £14BN OVER BUDGET ..TWO YEARS LATE Yes.. it's ANOTHER government computer fiasco By Oonagh Blackman Political Editor A MASSIVE computer project to link 30,000 GPs to nearly 300 hospitals could end up £14billion over budget and two years late, it was claimed yesterday. The original price tag for the plan, due to go online in 2012, was £6.2billion. It is now £12.4billion but is predicted to rise to £20billion" mindblowing over budget figures, I mean IT salaries havn't really changed much since dot con have they, hardware has come down in price........so where has it gone ?? A lot of my friends are working at the NHS in Leeds on this project, one was contracting in the city for a top tier investment bank but moved back up to Leeds because they were offering more money, another who went straight into call centre work after school on £12k a year doubled his wage to £24k taking a first line support job there which needed no technical skills. They pay very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apom Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I have said as much for a year or so now. Its Blairs socialist utopia. I gather about 1 in 4 people work for the government now, and online polls I have made in some forums seem to reflect that. Remember in the victorian era they used to make extensive road/canal/bridge/house building exercises to employ folk. Wonder if all this house construction is just another face of that? Me? I work in online gambling... proper private sector Get those with no purpose to build the infratructure of the country to be something to be proud of, to help the old as they struggle?? To do these things...?? Nope, use them to fill the ranks of the pencil pushers and make the ineffective less effective.. To strangle the country, not help it.. Labour = the most dangerous morrons ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colour Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 (edited) A few days ago I concluded that the government have been 'buying' up to 300,000 new jobs a year. According to moneyweek, the governement hired 149,000 people during the year to march 06: http://www.moneyweek.com/file/14287/why-go...p-spending.html Anthony Hilton in London’s Evening Standard last week highlighted a very interesting statistic from the most recent batch of employment data. The total number of workforce jobs in the UK rose by 146,000 in the year to March. But public sector employment rose by 149,000 over the same period. Now maths may not be the UK’s strong point, but it doesn’t take a genius to realise that this means that the private sector actually shed 3,000 posts last year. This suggests that the number of jobs "bought" in one year could easily exceed 300,000. Edited June 22, 2006 by The Colour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog Posted June 22, 2006 Author Share Posted June 22, 2006 According to moneyweek, the governement hired 149,000 people during the year to march 06: http://www.moneyweek.com/file/14287/why-go...p-spending.html This suggests that the number of jobs "bought" in one year could easily exceed 300,000. Good one! And very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 "17 June 2006 £14BN OVER BUDGET ..TWO YEARS LATE Yes.. it's ANOTHER government computer fiasco By Oonagh Blackman Political Editor A MASSIVE computer project to link 30,000 GPs to nearly 300 hospitals could end up £14billion over budget and two years late, it was claimed yesterday. The original price tag for the plan, due to go online in 2012, was £6.2billion. It is now £12.4billion but is predicted to rise to £20billion" mindblowing over budget figures, I mean IT salaries havn't really changed much since dot con have they, hardware has come down in price........so where has it gone ?? I totally agree - I sell IT Systems - Hardware has dropped to ludicrously low commodity value's, Margins are stupidly tight, IT admin staff all still earn the same - the real money is in acre's of "consultants" consulting other consultants, on consultancy consultancy. All charging themselves out at anything from £975 - £2000 a day for months on end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colour Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I totally agree - I sell IT Systems - Hardware has dropped to ludicrously low commodity value's, Margins are stupidly tight, IT admin staff all still earn the same - the real money is in acre's of "consultants" consulting other consultants, on consultancy consultancy. All charging themselves out at anything from £975 - £2000 a day for months on end! The problem is that all these IT departments who have an over-reliance on consultants are like that because they are led by WEAK MANAGEMENT. There is an inverse relationship between the strength of leadership and the number of consultants in an IT department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueDeNimm Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Here's a real life anecdotal. The DWP is creating a new personnel database. This is for its own internal systems and will not affect non-employees of the DWP. Original budget £20m. Currently running at £160m and not finished. The staff are milking it for all its worth - overtime at time and a half etc. The budget paid for several christmas parties and bottles of wine and chocs for everyone working on it. The majority of the money is going to the consulting firm. The thing that really riles me, is, no-one is accountable. If someone at my firm forecasted spending at £20m and then exceeded it, they would not get near £160m before being dismissed for incompetence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog Posted June 22, 2006 Author Share Posted June 22, 2006 Here's a real life anecdotal. The DWP is creating a new personnel database. This is for its own internal systems and will not affect non-employees of the DWP. Original budget £20m. Currently running at £160m and not finished. The staff are milking it for all its worth - overtime at time and a half etc. The budget paid for several christmas parties and bottles of wine and chocs for everyone working on it. The majority of the money is going to the consulting firm. The thing that really riles me, is, no-one is accountable. If someone at my firm forecasted spending at £20m and then exceeded it, they would not get near £160m before being dismissed for incompetence. I had to lie down after reading this. When are people going to do something about this scandalous abuse of tax payers money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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