byron78 Posted May 13, 2022 Author Share Posted May 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Speed1987 said: I don't believe the concern has evaporated, its just not prominent within government. The conservatives were using this to get into power previously, with no intention of stopping or reducing immigration. They blamed the EU and done a great job of manipulation throughout the MSM and social media. Now they've been in power for sometime and the electorate see no real difference. I feel an apathy around me that it simply will not change and tbh I don't think it will neither. We cannot go to other people's countries and expect them not to come to ours. We also want cheap goods, so in exchange for exploiting kids in sweatshops, we have to give up somthing... Either we allow mass immigration or kiss good bye to Primark. This is almost certainly the reality. As you say, Brexit wasn't based on reality. Voting to leave the EU to reduce immigration overall wasn't based on reality. The reality I can see (and that's purely anecdotal) is more rich Asian families buying up homes and school places etc. No idea what they do for work as I've not asked. They definitely aren't pulling teeth, plumbing, or doing jobs in the community though. At least not to the levels to make up for the skilled workers that have gone back to the EU. Perhaps we should tax them more to help train more of our own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, winkie said: You think brexit was all about immigration you are mistaken, If you read my post before replying I said :- 11 minutes ago, Insane said: In 2016 many people voting were sending a message to Parliament ( it was not the only reason for voting Brexit but a big part of it ) the message was there is too much immigration too fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed1987 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, winkie said: You think brexit was all about immigration you are mistaken, follow the money, follow the power.....and follow those that want to be in control and have control.......the people are there to see they get what they want......will sell you anything to get it. For once we agree 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, byron78 said: All I mean (purely theoretical) is would people accept rejoining if it took us back to 2016 levels of immigration? Well an irrelevant question really as re- joining would guarantee nothing on levels of immigration would it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Speed1987 said: Either we allow mass immigration or kiss good bye to Primark. F**k Primark! Just don't mess with that shit. It's gross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Speed1987 said: Either we allow mass immigration or kiss good bye to Primark. Most of the stuff bought in Primark is imported so why do we need mass immigration to keep Primark ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Quote In 2016 many people voting were sending a message to Parliament ( it was not the only reason for voting Brexit but a big part of it ) the message was there is too much immigration too fast. So they sold it to the people that saw it as a problem that brexit will deal with it.......some of the places that have seen many years of immigration, places like London voted to remain. Very many second generation immigrants do not want further immigration.....will the last one in please close the door.....those who want immigration reduction are made up of a wide mixture of all sorts of people including immigrants themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed1987 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, byron78 said: This is almost certainly the reality. As you say, Brexit wasn't based on reality. Voting to leave the EU to reduce immigration overall wasn't based on reality. The reality I can see (and that's purely anecdotal) is more rich Asian families buying up homes and school places etc. No idea what they do for work as I've not asked. They definitely aren't pulling teeth, plumbing, or doing jobs in the community though. At least not to the levels to make up for the skilled workers that have gone back to the EU. Perhaps we should tax them more to help train more of our own? Yea I've also noticed much more wealthy Asians moving into my area, particularly Indians. I guess many have businesses in India, servants at home (in india) and are transferring wealth to the UK. Actually I have a couple of close Indian friends and they have servants in India, but live a middle class lifestyle in the UK. Tbh, I have an admiration for them, as they are extremely polite hard working people and band together. The problem we have is culturally they are out competing us. As they are willing to live within 1 big house as a community. Less bills and more household income, auntie does all the cooking. An ill vouch for her it's great 😂. I think we need to change our perspective, rather than taxing them. The opportunities are out there and there's nothing stopping us investing or starting a business in India or Africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, byron78 said: This is almost certainly the reality. As you say, Brexit wasn't based on reality. Voting to leave the EU to reduce immigration overall wasn't based on reality. The reality I can see (and that's purely anecdotal) is more rich Asian families buying up homes and school places etc. No idea what they do for work as I've not asked. They definitely aren't pulling teeth, plumbing, or doing jobs in the community though. At least not to the levels to make up for the skilled workers that have gone back to the EU. Perhaps we should tax them more to help train more of our own? Uncontrolled immigration is the keystone of the Tories' hpi forever program. Their occupation is irrelevant, their principal function is to serve as debt mules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron78 Posted May 13, 2022 Author Share Posted May 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, Insane said: Well an irrelevant question really as re- joining would guarantee nothing on levels of immigration would it. No, true. In exactly the same way as leaving has guaranteed nothing on overall levels of immigration either, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed1987 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Insane said: Most of the stuff bought in Primark is imported so why do we need mass immigration to keep Primark ? As India knows we benefit from their cheap goods. India wants somthing in exchange for these goods and I don't blame them. The cost to make that product in the UK is much higher and we don't want to work in factories. We simply cannot compete with our laws and ideas. In other words, if you want Primark then indias terms are you accept more immigration. Edited May 13, 2022 by Speed1987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron78 Posted May 13, 2022 Author Share Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Speed1987 said: I think we need to change our perspective, rather than taxing them. The opportunities are out there and there's nothing stopping us investing or starting a business in India or Africa. Probably healthier. Although I should imagine the realities of that are horrible tbh. Lots of corruption/bribes/nepotism etc. Awful lot of racism and nonsense in India as well. Only very limited direct experience again, but caste system out there is rigid. That was something we very much encouraged under old Queen Vic of course... Edited May 13, 2022 by byron78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed1987 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 @Insane https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/22/india-and-uk-to-press-ahead-with-talks-on-free-trade-deal-modi-johnson "India had been keen to make increased access to the UK for its citizens part of any trade agreement, and Johnson signalled on Thursday he was willing to make concessions in this area – something previous UK governments had refused to do. Asked whether he was willing to offer more visas as part of a deal, he told ITV: “The UK actually has a massive shortage in some sectors like IT. Some estimates say we are hundreds of thousands of people short. So what you can have is controlled migration, which allows you to bring in talented people who can really help your economy." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron78 Posted May 13, 2022 Author Share Posted May 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, zugzwang said: Uncontrolled immigration is the keystone of the Tories' hpi forever program. Their occupation is irrelevant, their principal function is to serve as debt mules. High immigration has always been seen as a positive in Tory circles as it undermines indigenous labour and unions etc. But you then have to sell that to proles. MSM only seems to get you so far these days. You almost need supporters who are complicite in the lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Speed1987 said: As India knows we benefit from their cheap goods. India wants somthing in exchange for these goods and I don't blame them. The cost to make that product in the UK is much higher and we don't want to work in factories. We simply cannot compete with our laws and ideas. In other words, if you want Primark then indias terms are you accept more immigration. But more immigration requires more houses to be built otherwise you end up where we are now. Having to underwrite the cost of home ownership with public money via an alphabet soup of market defying subsidies until the country goes bankrupt. Edited May 13, 2022 by zugzwang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Lots of Chinese moving to Europe, on golden passports.....global movement now is only for the wealthy, young and educated....people are now treated as a commodity....brexit closed down many freedoms and choices for the common people......did they honestly know what they voted for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 38 minutes ago, byron78 said: In exactly the same way as leaving has guaranteed nothing on overall levels of immigration either, I guess. So if neither have guaranteed anything why bother re joining to get the same result we already have ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 38 minutes ago, Speed1987 said: As India knows we benefit from their cheap goods. India wants somthing in exchange for these goods and I don't blame them. The cost to make that product in the UK is much higher and we don't want to work in factories. We simply cannot compete with our laws and ideas. In other words, if you want Primark then indias terms are you accept more immigration. You contradict yourself. Primark import goods from India , factories in India make the goods and want to sell them to the UK. Quite Simple. In exchange for the goods they get money just like in any other transaction. Are you saying that Indian factories selling us the goods only do it if we have X amount of immigration from India ? Nonsense the people working in and owning the factories in India will not be the same people wanting to immigrate to the UK , if we don't let the others in they will still want to sell their goods to us. Could you imagine it we say no to Indian immigration so the factories say you are not getting our cheap goods , they stop selling to us close down, stop making any money and add to their unemployment. LOL. What is that saying spite your nose to save your face that would be it in a nutshell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 41 minutes ago, Speed1987 said: "India had been keen to make increased access to the UK for its citizens part of any trade agreement, and Johnson signalled on Thursday he was willing to make concessions in this area – something previous UK governments had refused to do. Asked whether he was willing to offer more visas as part of a deal, he told ITV: “The UK actually has a massive shortage in some sectors like IT. Some estimates say we are hundreds of thousands of people short. So what you can have is controlled migration, which allows you to bring in talented people who can really help your economy." So we say no. I am sure India will still sell us cheap wear and chuck T-shirts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron78 Posted May 13, 2022 Author Share Posted May 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, Insane said: So if neither have guaranteed anything why bother re joining to get the same result we already have ? Well, yes. But also, why bother leaving? That has only delivered lorry queues, removed skilled workers, and added costs so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron78 Posted May 13, 2022 Author Share Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Insane said: So we say no. I am sure India will still sell us cheap wear and chuck T-shirts. Problem is the only say we have is what government we vote in. Rees-Mogg has wanted India deals and more open borders with them for years. Boris is telling India we need their IT grunts and various other skilled labourers. Rishi's family fortune is Indian with huge ties to India's power and political structures as a result. We didn't say no, did we? Edited May 13, 2022 by byron78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Just now, byron78 said: But also, why bother leaving? That has only delivered lorry queues, removed skilled workers, and added costs so far. Umm because people voted for it in a democracy , quite simple really. I blame the Governments of this country past and present for the Brexit vote , they laid the foundations for peoples negative attitude to the EU when given the vote by Cameron who thought we would vote remain it back fired on him we voted leave. The EU was used as a whipping boy by UK Governments it was a catch all for anything wrong well they cried Wolf once to often. Maybe the UK leaving was a wake up call for the EU , maybe they need to change to stop others leaving and the whole EU falling apart , maybe one day the UK might re join but I think the whole thing has been a massive learning curve for many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomo Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 5 hours ago, byron78 said: Net immigration is going up? At record levels. You can actually see where the split and change occurs. It's that B word. Fewer Eastern Europeans etc. More Africans and Indians etc. Hence why I'm asking. Are people really okay with this? It is not immigration as such it was economic competition, the EE competed with the working class and started to slowly affect the middle classes, the Indians start small business and the Africans prefer to work for transport companies so less economic competition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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