Sunak Rejects Wealth Tax

[Staffsknot]

28 minutes ago, Gribble said:

Can you let me know which race of people I am having a go at? Pathetic idiot

Language like interloper, fast breeders, etc... sad pathetic idiot.

If you have to resort to that you don't have a point just an angry man

[Staffsknot]

3 hours ago, Locke said:

Do you have a point Mr. bat expert? (btw I am sorry that the lab escape thing is happening to you)

Never said I was a bat expert just know more about bats than someone who never visited a bat cave in Asia, engaged with those who were experts and didn't just cherry pick random stuff from the web and chuck out easily disputable things as revelations and then scurry off saying 'you have your opinion' after Wikipaedia and the discredited Eugenics proposing former Science Editor had nothing else.

Btw no evidence has been presented and nothing is happening to me personally thank you. How's the convincing everyone of your conspiracy theory of the week?

My point is its yet another contrived situation which could not happen, bit like your usual ambush posts. At the point the mark replaced gold standard in Germany, Aug 1914, you could not exchange said paper for anything but goods. You could have tried to buy gold as an asset but not at a bank as an exchange.

Now if you instead of shovelling that 1000 marks under the mattress they bought something tangible and essential / productive for 9 yrs they've done better than mattress man - assuming not requisitioned and both survived to 1918 unscathed. 

As pointed out you chose 1923. By end 1924 they were almost back to 1914 level. Bit like folks who choose the short period of months when interest rates at peak when saying 'we had interest rates of x in my day, not these easy rates of millennials'

Bit like claiming swifts live in the UK because you see them a few months in summer or the Dickensian myth of Britain always having white Christmas when rarely did, just a few consecutive ones in Dickens' childhood and everyone believes Christmas in UK is mostly a snow covered one.

If I hadn't swapped my Panini football stickers from Italia '90 in to get a full book I'd have higher value than in 1991 when the next football sticker set appeared. In June 1992 worthless, 2002 worth a lot.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Staffsknot

[Locke]

12 hours ago, Staffsknot said:

As pointed out you chose 1923. 

19 hours ago, Locke said:

A German gives a gold Mark to the bank in 1914, receives a 1000 Markschein and stashes it under his floorboards. In 1926 he takes that note, goes to the bank and presents it for exchange to gold.

How many grams of gold does the bank give him?

 

12 hours ago, Staffsknot said:

By end 1924 they were almost back to 1914 level.

Look, you clearly do not understand what happened. The old paper Mark was not the same as the Reichsmark which was introduced on August 30, 1924, even though @zugzwang likes to pretend it was.

[Gribble]

14 hours ago, Staffsknot said:

Language like interloper, fast breeders, etc... sad pathetic idiot.

If you have to resort to that you don't have a point just an angry man

Sounds like the truth hurts; if you think we can take continually take in those from the 3rd World (billions) who have high birth rates and overpopulate their  own countries, and give them generous benefits  without damaging the UK (e.g. by creating shortage of housing, drain on resources) you are clearly a complete idiot.  Furthermore do you think its racist if the Gov allows people to come into your home empty your fridge etc, and you disagree? After all its not your close kin so you not wanting them in is "racist". Sorry if wanting to fight against creating moral hazard make me an "angry man" then I am very very proud to be an angry man. Better than being a complete imbecile

[Staffsknot]

1 minute ago, Gribble said:

Sounds like the truth hurts; if you think we can take continually take in those from the 3rd World (billions) who have high birth rates and overpopulate their  own countries, and give them generous benefits  without damaging the UK (e.g. by creating shortage of housing, drain on resources) you are clearly a complete idiot.  Furthermore do you think its racist if the Gov allows people to come into your home empty your fridge etc, and you disagree? After all its not your close kin so you not wanting them in is "racist". Sorry if wanting to fight against creating moral hazard make me an "angry man" then I am very very proud to be an angry man. Better than being a complete imbecile

And here was me just thinking as you sign off most posts Pathetic Idiot you'd misunderstood a letter you'd received and used it luke yours faithfully...

Doing wonders for my forum reading time all the divs highlighting themselves so nicely for blocking.

Loads less to trawl through as just interesting posts with points and intelligible stuff not ranty claptrap

[Gribble]

2 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

And here was me just thinking as you sign off most posts Pathetic Idiot you'd misunderstood a letter you'd received and used it luke yours faithfully...

Doing wonders for my forum reading time all the divs highlighting themselves so nicely for blocking.

Loads less to trawl through as just interesting posts with points and intelligible stuff not ranty claptrap

Lol - thanks for the great argumentation in this post, almost as good as the grammar - compete drivel.

I was going to also say - if you cant compose any decent arguments , just shout "racist". Laughable

[Gribble]

Just now, Gribble said:

Lol - thanks for the great argumentation in this post, almost as good as the grammar - compete drivel.

I was going to also say - if you cant compose any decent arguments , just shout "racist". Laughable

 

5 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

And here was me just thinking as you sign off most posts Pathetic Idiot you'd misunderstood a letter you'd received and used it luke yours faithfully...

Doing wonders for my forum reading time all the divs highlighting themselves so nicely for blocking.

Loads less to trawl through as just interesting posts with points and intelligible stuff not ranty claptrap

This is actually intelligible. A prime hypocrite too

[Staffsknot]

1 hour ago, Locke said:

 

Look, you clearly do not understand what happened. The old paper Mark was not the same as the Reichsmark which was introduced on August 30, 1924, even though @zugzwang likes to pretend it was.

My error, I'd thought you'd choose the lowest point 1923 not the clearly daft 1926. It must have been the eye roll again at your posts about bats and similar bait posts.

My original point stands - how many grams of gold he gets in 1914-1926 will be precisely 0 in the bank because banks were not handing out grams of gold. Same as now, regardless of whether your graph shows any values. No other reasoning is necessary to blow your scenario apart.

Contrived situation as stated and if he'd walked in with service pistol he'd still get no gold.

Does that suitably answer the scenario for you? Because we did that earlier and you just banged on about bat expert rather than acknowledge it was a mistake by yourself. Me I've admitted to misreading your convulted scenario, but still same outcome.

The reference to being back to almost 1914 level was in reference to how the currency as a whole recovered as had the nation. As others alluded to it was national policy to do over the French especially.

You are correct the papermark was gone by 1924, twice over in fact, but you could never get gold from the bank so your scenario is meaningless - my point. Your matress man is wiped out by stupidity not hyperinflation.

I suspect the point you desperately wanted to make was its not legal tender but the scenario you painted just blew it up.

Now if he'd held onto that 1000 mark until 1970 he could sell it as a curio to US tourists at big markup.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Staffsknot

[zugzwang]

1 hour ago, Locke said:

 

Look, you clearly do not understand what happened. The old paper Mark was not the same as the Reichsmark which was introduced on August 30, 1924, even though @zugzwang likes to pretend it was.

 

The Weimar Hyperinflation can only be understood in context, as a political act of defiance against the French occupation of the Ruhr and the imposition of reparations for WWI. Paper savngs were destroyed when the mark was replaced but the German economy was not. The hyperinflation was reversed in just three months and the economy quickly repaired in the half-decade that followed, the Weimar 'Golden Years'.

[Locke]

21 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Paper savngs were destroyed when the mark was replaced

[Locke]

1 hour ago, Staffsknot said:

you could never get gold from the bank

Perhaps you could explain where the idea of 1000 Marks = 1 tr.oz. gold comes from?

Edited June 3, 2021 by Locke

[zugzwang]

5 minutes ago, Locke said:

 

Any time. Always happy to smarten up a chump.

[Staffsknot]

42 minutes ago, Locke said:

Perhaps you could explain where to idea of 1000 Marks = 1 tr.oz. gold comes from?

Go into HSBC and ask them for the tr oz of gold for your £1000.

Same answer will be given as you'd get in your German bank in Stuttgart. They didn't measure out gold like the 49ers and off you went to the bar like Paint Your Wagon.

1914 could I take my Mark back into the bank 5 mins after exchange and demand a gold substitute? Nope as that was the point of the currency change, the end of gold as a notional exchange. 

The measure you cited is simply a measure of relative value, like £1 = 0.87l of diesel or something. I cannot go to a bank and demand diesel.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Staffsknot

[Locke]

22 hours ago, zugzwang said:

Any time. Always happy to smarten up a chump.

I'm glad you made the implicit admission you were wrong by contradicting yourself as shown below, but I would appreciate you categorically stating you were wrong

On 02/06/2021 at 10:52, zugzwang said:

Following the French departure the value of the mark was immediately restored.

 

22 hours ago, zugzwang said:

 Paper savngs were destroyed when the mark was replaced 

Thanks!

[Locke]

21 hours ago, Staffsknot said:

Go into HSBC and ask them for the tr oz of gold for your £1000.

Ok, so you do not understand what I was asking. Pound sterling is not linked to a weight of gold or silver. No fiat currencies are, but the Mark was.

When a currency is pinned by its issuer to a weight of precious metal, that has consequences for savers. According to the chart kindly given by zugzwang, 1000 Marks ~ 35g of gold. For that to have any meaning, the Marks must be convertible to gold. 

I understand that your average pleb might not be able to walk into a bank and get the gold; in the US, it was only other governments which could freely convert their USD hodlings to physical gold.

That has no relevance, however, because we are using weight of gold as a proxy for purchasing power (apologies- I did not make this explicit and you did not see the link)

The point is that the people who held fiat currency were directly harmed compared to if they had held gold, or other assets, which point you and zugzwang were disingenuously attempting to discredit:

22 hours ago, zugzwang said:

Following the French departure the value of the mark was immediately restored.

 

[zugzwang]

9 minutes ago, Locke said:

Ok, so you do not understand what I was asking. Pound sterling is not linked to a weight of gold or silver. No fiat currencies are, but the Mark was.

When a currency is pinned by its issuer to a weight of precious metal, that has consequences for savers. According to the chart kindly given by zugzwang, 1000 Marks ~ 35g of gold. For that to have any meaning, the Marks must be convertible to gold. 

I understand that your average pleb might not be able to walk into a bank and get the gold; in the US, it was only other governments which could freely convert their USD hodlings to physical gold.

That has no relevance, however, because we are using weight of gold as a proxy for purchasing power (apologies- I did not make this explicit and you did not see the link)

The point is that the people who held fiat currency were directly harmed compared to if they had held gold, or other assets, which point you and zugzwang were disingenuously attempting to discredit:

 

The pre-1924 Rentenmark was backed by land and securities; the post-1924 Reichsmark was linked to gold at the prewar level.

The UK abandoned the gold standard in 1931, the US in 1932 and France in 1936; all crushed by runaway deflation aka the Great Depression.

[Staffsknot]

1 hour ago, Locke said:

The point is that the people who held fiat currency were directly harmed compared to if they had held gold, or other assets, which point you and zugzwang were disingenuously attempting to discredit

I was in fact taking your contrived situation apart as you've taken one bit of an economy out and said here this was terrible and the situation was a nonsense.

What did the inflation do - workers wages rose slightly lagging but they were not as hit as doctors. Many middle class were business owners and the moment they went back towards gold standard or mark appreciated insolvencies boomed.

The upper class spent like lunatics afraid of being taxed ( several pro tax politicians were assassinated).

When gold standard restored working classes and middle class business owners suffered as insolvencies rocketed / people on dole. So while they might have had savings without hyperinflation they'd have been equally screwed and possibly taxed to pay war reparations bill.

The rescheduling of repayments is what brought stability but returning to gold standard is largely viewed as a disaster in many countries and why never went back.

What folks are also pointing out is the Ruhr occupation was the cause of much hyperinflation and by design.