As first-time buyers, can we take out a buy-to-let mortgage?

[AvoidDebt]

Oxfordshire FTB, Sheffield BTL. 

As first-time buyers, can we take out a buy-to-let mortgage?

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/apr/27/first-time-buyers-can-we-get-buy-to-let-mortgage

Edited April 27, 2017 by AvoidDebt

[Nabby81]

Quote

This has allowed us to save up a small pot over the years and I recently inherited around £100,000 from my grandmother. This gives us a cash deposit of roughly £140,000 to buy somewhere, but with a joint income of around £40,000 and the average two-bed around here selling at the half a million mark, we’re going to have to start looking elsewhere.

140k deposit  and still can't afford to buy a 2 bed ...

[AvoidDebt]

I recall reading an article about the the 90s crash. It said during the ascent Londoners became so fearful that they ended up buddying up with strangers and taking out mortgages. This time the equivalent has to be cr4p your pants in the South, end up owning a BTL in Shitfield. 

[TheCountOfNowhere]

1 hour ago, AvoidDebt said:

Oxfordshire FTB, Sheffield BTL. 

As first-time buyers, can we take out a buy-to-let mortgage?

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/apr/27/first-time-buyers-can-we-get-buy-to-let-mortgage

Is it me, or is that planting the seed of how to obtain a mortgage you have no way of paying for in young peoples minds ?

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

1 minute ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Is it me, or is that planting the seed of how to obtain a mortgage you have no way of paying for in young peoples minds ?

To be fair that seed has already germinated. It's called Studentia Loanicus.

[Venger]

37 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Is it me, or is that planting the seed of how to obtain a mortgage you have no way of paying for in young peoples minds ?

Count, they've got £140,000 quid inheritance + own savings for a place in Sheffield.   

They ask about a BTL mortgage in order to buy (soon) before they move up there at some future point.  (Someone like you might like to be their future tenant to make it your home for a while?).

They are not 'helpless victims' and neither are readers with their own minds, not 'controlled' or 'guided' by one article (how many other young readers have £140,000+ in savings... and if they do believe such things about buying without much care about being able to afford it, that's their own market choice) , for a future breakdown of 'innocence' against 'media' and 'banks who made people borrow to outbid all others.'

Many renter-savers have their own mind conditions against these house prices, BTLers, and media articles of foreverHPI+...  Stick-it-to-the-man-eosis / HPC.

[John51]

2 hours ago, AvoidDebt said:

I recall reading an article about the the 90s crash. It said during the ascent Londoners became so fearful that they ended up buddying up with strangers and taking out mortgages. This time the equivalent has to be cr4p your pants in the South, end up owning a BTL in Shitfield. 

I worked in London 1989/90. Upper management types doing private hire taxi work in the evenings because their salary near enough equaled their mortgage.  

 

[GreenDevil]

6 hours ago, AvoidDebt said:

I recall reading an article about the the 90s crash. It said during the ascent Londoners became so fearful that they ended up buddying up with strangers and taking out mortgages. This time the equivalent has to be cr4p your pants in the South, end up owning a BTL in Shitfield. 

They live a salubrious part oxford and are paying a pittance in rent. Yet they want to buy a shithole in shitfield.

I bet the read the guardian... Oh yeah. They do. What a surprise. Bunch of goons.

[adarmo]

5 minutes ago, GreenDevil said:

They live a salubrious part oxford and are paying a pittance in rent. Yet they want to buy a shithole in shitfield.

I bet the read the guardian... Oh yeah. They do. What a surprise. Bunch of goons.

Let them do it. As the chairman of Lloyds of London once said:

"If God had not wanted them fleeced He would not have made them sheep".

Ironic that they'll be living with the Guardian's original target audience soon enough. 

[Venger]

They have £140,000 !   To add to their own savings.  They have a low-rent at the moment.  They think BTL.  It's their life.  Everyone has to take their bearings and make their own decisions rent/buy/area and what represents value.   Buyers set the wider market values.

7 hours ago, AvoidDebt said:

I recall reading an article about the the 90s crash. It said during the ascent Londoners became so fearful that they ended up buddying up with strangers and taking out mortgages. This time the equivalent has to be cr4p your pants in the South, end up owning a BTL in Shitfield. 

 

Some individuals Londoners may have done that.   Their choice in the market.  No one dragged them into it.  They could all see the prices, and every time someone bought, they outbid someone else.

Not all Londoners.  People are individuals.  They can be counted.  And our own individual market choices and actions count, matter, and add up.

Others were priced out and rented, as those HPI+ choice buyers pushed prices up and up and up, as individual buyers with their own minds.  Refusing or unable to pay the ever higher prices those other Londoners were paying out of their own free will.

I like to call it a market.  There were renters.  Other people exist.  Is anyone coming in with bailouts for tenants those who have spent £100K+ on rent?  Where there in no certainty of HPC in future, and indeed, many a HPIer rubbing their hands for more mad-gainz through to 2040?

I have to tell you that, as a personal finance guy for many a year.... this guy made his own choice, buying with his mate, at price they choice to pay, in 2015.

All those reasons he gives, are his own individual world-view, that I disagreed with then, and now. (Hello Section24).  I won't buy in fear or panic.  Nor will I load up on excess debt.  Their choice if they want to have lifestyle of 'owning' with a mate, at price they choice to pay. 

And you can see in that thread how he scoffed at idea of any Gov/tax change to BTLers...... just before Gov did exactly that.

There's more than one late 80s buyer on forum, who claims he was 'brainwashed' to pay such a high amount in 87, but STR'd when he recognised the slide begin, selling to someone else (for a tiny loss) who still thought HPI+.  Market,   'Brainwashed' he claims, but preens himself on all the HPI++++ mad-gainz on his later house purchases. 

4 hours ago, John51 said:

I worked in London 1989/90. Upper management types doing private hire taxi work in the evenings because their salary near enough equaled their mortgage.

Their mortgage.

Others rented and got opportunity to buy/upsize in that HPC.  

Others got caught in negative equity... (but prices then went on longest stupid sociatelly destructive run, including an older couple who claim their London apartment dropped below £100K, but is worth £650,000 today..... having bought a 1 bed BTL for £500,000 days before Section 24 announced in Summer Budget 2015).

And others bought at more sensible prices, (with opportunity of the market at the time). and have a great lifestyle to this day..... although would embrace HPC, and better value housing, for other people/younger family and society.  However in this market we have had years of individual buyers willing to pay more and more.  Their choice.  Their decision.  Them causing the HPI+.  If there were no buyers, there would be no HPI+.

On 7/23/2014 at 9:38 PM, silver surfer said:

I bought my first house in the very early 1980's. It was three bedroomed terraced house in a decent part of Sheffield, it cost about £10,500 and my pay was about £5,750.

After a couple of years my job took me to London, in price terms I virtually swapped my Sheffield house for a one bedroom flat with an SW1 post code, Sloane Square was less than a five minute walk away and the nearest "off licence" was Berry Brothers & Rudd.

A couple of years after that I paid about £22,000 for a two bedroom flat in Fulham, I think at the time my wages had topped £10,000. Property costs can't have been too much of a burden because soon after I bought a Porsche.

Incidentally, I had no student debts and a rock solid final salary pension that subsequently allowed me to retire at 55.

Absolutely none of this is available to my children. They're fortunate in that I can afford to match for them the benefits that I was lucky enough to enjoy, but anyone from my generation who thinks their own hard work and industry were the keys to their good fortune is just taking nonsense. We were the most privileged generation that has ever lived.

 

It is called a market.   Not those who take very high risks, choose BTL, outbid all others to extremes, buy as mates... are the only ones who matter.  

'Pity The Homeowner' (h/t Neverwhere)

On 7/18/2016 at 0:52 AM, Neverwhere said:

+ 1 to both.

Pretending to have the moral high ground by holding up other property owners as a human shield is just another form of gloating IMV - look at me, I have a house and I'm a better person than you, because I care (but only about other people who have houses as well, natch) - and it's just that, pretending.

Wishing for anything other than a HPC, in real terms or nominal, is wishing continued and ongoing hard-times on everyone who is currently completely priced out (remembering that for many young, working people buying somewhere to live on average local wages is simply not possible at the present time - there is no element of choice to it) so that current property owners can benefit from not having to deal with a HPC that wouldn't dramatically affect the vast majority of them anyway.

Some people seem to be quite happy that large numbers of younger people should have their quality of life thoroughly degraded on an ongoing basis just as long as that means that there is no HPC. They hold up the possiblity that a tiny minority of comparatively well-off people might, what? Possibly end up having to rent themselves (the horror) if they've previously chosen to overstretch themselves financially, as if that were some kind of fundamental wrong that would justify forcing a much larger number of existing renters into perpetual insecurity of shelter for the rest of their lives?

It seems to me that central to the pity the homeowner argument is the notion that only people who own property are worth a d@mn, and all of the current and ongoing negative impacts of excessively high house prices on younger people don't matter enough to even warrant a mention, because people who don't own property aren't worth caring about. It's fundamentally morally bankrupt.

 

[Venger]

And while you cry upon the 'Pity The Homeowners' .... renters exist, with no certainty of HPC.

Pity The Homeowner has been the cry of so many during 50% moar HPI, and a BTLer double-down, on HPC for 8+ years, whilst renters paid up £50,000 and more in rent, against runaway HPI year on year.

And if you really think the Pity The Homeowners themselves would put renters before their own market choices.... just deluded imo.

We are in a market.  Individuals make their own market choices.  I can't do anything to stop other buyers paying prices that others recoil from.  Or to encourage those sat on Mad-Gainz to sell at lower prices.  Market.

 

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

I'd love to hear Road Thrush's opinion on this and how it affects his local affordability based upon local median wage... oh wait.

[Bland Unsight]

13 minutes ago, 24 year mortgage 8itch said:

I'd love to hear Road Thrush's opinion on this and how it affects his local affordability based upon local median wage... oh wait.

I  am also keen to hear from the poster you mention.

Too many posters here silence new voices who see things from a different perspective and try to shout them down with sweary ad hominem arguments. It's disgraceful.

This forces the new posters to start 'comedy threads' where they argue that completely indefensible propositions are in fact the truth - just in order to help up see how our 'groupthink' has rendered us as nothing more than broken biscuits rattling around in the bottom of a largely empty tin.

The sad thing is that other posters, with other different faults, but still total losers, obviously, then shoot down the voice of reason's comedy thread on basis of trivial and tangential matters like the need to support statements with decent statistics and make reasoned inferences from the data. This kind of limited thinking is what has left this forum's posters so stuck in the mud. A more adventurous route of freshly invented quasi-facts and innovative fuzzy logic cognitive modalities will set us free!

Also, it's never the wrong time to buy a house because they aren't making any more land you know, and if you pay over the odds and can't support the mortgage, just rent it out, innit.

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Pumpkin Muad'Dib

[Tapori]

18 hours ago, 24 year mortgage 8itch said:

To be fair that seed has already germinated. It's called Studentia Loanicus.