jonb2 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 52 minutes ago, ccc said: This is absolutely sensational. Immense. Thanks. I did some thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Just now, thecrashingisles said: When EU law is transposed to Norway, how exactly does this represent "making its politicians responsible" and removing "layers of government to hide behind"? An obvious & unambiguous line between laws that: 1) The majority of which Norwegian politicians are solely responsible for 2) The relatively few trade related laws that the EU are responsible for I'd be interested to hear any other theories re: why the ex-EU continental economies of Norway, Switzerland & Iceland seem to do better than their EU counterparts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: Yet Norway enshrines nearly 95% of EU law onto their statute books, pays almost as much as we do per capita and has no say at all in all the rules and regulations they have to adhere to. It's the worst of all models. The only reason Norway has done well, is because it managed its vast oil reserves well, creating a sovereign wealth fund that is providing more income now than the oil ever did. That's why it has done so well, this is nothing at all to do with the EU, or EEA, it's a complete fallacy that their success is anything in any way aligned to them not being in the EU Exactly. A testament to the difference in governance between the two nations. One good, the other totally hopeless and getting worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Just now, highYield said: I'd be interested to hear any other theories re: why the ex-EU continental economies of Norway, Switzerland & Iceland seem to do better than their EU counterparts? My theory is that you want to believe it's the case and therefore it seems to you to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 34 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: Even talking about it in terms of "like" and "don't like" shows exactly the mistake I'm talking about. This is about the governance of a continent in the 21st century, not a popularity contest. If the EU didn't exist we'd invent something like it, so we might as well stick with the one we've got and get on with it. Defeatist loser mentality imo. Suck it up because if we try something different it may not work out. Sums up the difference in opinion perfectly imo. I'm a doer. Not a whiner. Well aside from house prices and the UK government of course. 1 minute ago, jonb2 said: Thanks. I did some thinking. Glad to help. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Just now, jonb2 said: Exactly. A testament to the difference in governance between the two nations. One good, the other totally hopeless and getting worse. We've been in the EU for too many decades, and that clearly didn't help. Time for a change. What about making our politicians responsible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, thehowler said: You will never be satisfied. You need to look at what the single market is and how it functions.. Edited May 14, 2018 by Dave Beans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Just now, highYield said: An obvious & unambiguous line between laws that: 1) The majority of which Norwegian politicians are solely responsible for 2) The relatively few trade related laws that the EU are responsible for I'd be interested to hear any other theories re: why the ex-EU continental economies of Norway, Switzerland & Iceland seem to do better than their EU counterparts? You're insane sometimes. They take on almost ALL EU laws to their books. Switzerland is an obvious as to why they have done well, and have always done well. Iceland doing better than their EU counterparts? The Iceland that went bankrupt and refused to pay its creditors in 2008 Iceland? The one still doing very poorly, in comparison? Norway, who shoved their vast oil wealth into a sovereign wealth fund, which we could have done. Insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Just now, thecrashingisles said: My theory is that you want to believe it's the case and therefore it seems to you to be the case. Quite possible, but sucks as a theory beyond quibbling on a forum. I'd still be interested to hear any other theories re: why the ex-EU continental economies of Norway, Switzerland & Iceland seem to do better than their EU counterparts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 1 minute ago, ccc said: I'm a doer. Not a whiner. Excellent. Now what's your customs solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 1 minute ago, highYield said: We've been in the EU for too many decades, and that clearly didn't help. Time for a change. What about making our politicians responsible? Apparently removing one layer of government lording over us will make us MORE likely to get ******ed over by self serving politicians. Nope. I don't quite get that terrible logic either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, highYield said: We've been in the EU for too many decades, and that clearly didn't help. Time for a change. What about making our politicians responsible? Leaving the EU will allow them to run rampant. Did you not see the votes record link I posted for JRM? The only way to change things will be to replace them. Completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, highYield said: We've been in the EU for too many decades, and that clearly didn't help. Time for a change. What about making our politicians responsible? It's only existed for less than 3 Just now, highYield said: Quite possible, but sucks as a theory beyond quibbling on a forum. I'd still be interested to hear any other theories re: why the ex-EU continental economies of Norway, Switzerland & Iceland seem to do better than their EU counterparts? I've explained. You just don't like the answer. It's idiocy of a high level to try and explain why Norway and Switzeland are doing well and equate it to being because they are not in the EU, and utter stupidity to even use Iceland in the same breath. However, unfortunately, it's happening too often now to be coincidental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: Excellent. Now what's your customs solution? Not my job. As I've said before. It's no big deal. Nobody gave a toss about Ireland's border before this. Nobody will give a toss after. And as per the Scotland booze tax deal - nobody really gives a toss about any of this anyway. It's hystrionics. "A" class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: You're insane sometimes. They take on almost ALL EU laws to their books. Switzerland is an obvious as to why they have done well, and have always done well. Iceland doing better than their EU counterparts? The Iceland that went bankrupt and refused to pay its creditors in 2008 Iceland? The one still doing very poorly, in comparison? Norway, who shoved their vast oil wealth into a sovereign wealth fund, which we could have done. Insane. Norway take on about a fifth of EU law.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Just now, jonb2 said: Leaving the EU will allow them to run rampant. Did you not see the votes record link I posted for JRM? The only way to change things will be to replace them. Completely. AFAICS, the only path towards replacing them - is to begin with making them solely responsible. 3 or 4 decades of the EU evidently hasn't worked. Time to try something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Dave Beans said: Norway take on about a fifth of EU law.. That's simply not true: they take on single market rules as they're made. Switzerland and Norway are obliged to mirror EU laws in their own laws. They can in practice, refuse to take on new rules, but ever have, and it wouldn't be great for them politically. Norway themselves did research the issue and prepared a document called 'Outside and Inside' in which they concluded Norway was in practice bound to adopt EU policies and rules, without being a member and without voting rights. That's the Norwegian government. I have just checked and yes, 95% was wrong, it's 75% of all EU laws, significantly they don't have CAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, highYield said: AFAICS, the only path towards replacing them - is to begin with making them solely responsible. 3 or 4 decades of the EU evidently hasn't worked. Time to try something else. 2.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, HairyOb1 said: That's simply not true: they take on single market rules as they're made. Switzerland and Norway are obliged to mirror EU laws in their own laws. They can in practice, refuse to take on new rules, but ever have, and it wouldn't be great for them politically. Norway themselves did research the issue and prepared a document called 'Outside and Inside' in which they concluded Norway was in practice bound to adopt EU policies and rules, without being a member and without voting rights. That's the Norwegian government. I have just checked and yes, 95% was wrong, it's 75% of all EU laws, significantly they don't have CAP. Nope..Go and have a look on the EFTA website...All the answers are there...Its about 5,000 (last time I checked) from around 23,000...So just over a fifth... Edited May 14, 2018 by Dave Beans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: Nope..Go and have a look on the EFTA website...All the answers are there... That's OK, I am happier looking at the Norwegian governments figures. Outside and Inside. Edited May 14, 2018 by HairyOb1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: That's OK, I am happier looking at the Norwegian governments figurers. Can you present them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: Can you present them? Yup, posted - Spoiler, they've outlined around 75% of laws affect them. This includes short term laws, many laws, the main one they don't is CAP. ALL Single Market rules are accepted at signing and whilst they technically do have a right to not take them on, they've never done it, or should I say they nearly did it once in 2011, but then put it off until 2013, when they simply accepted it. The 20% figure is one borne of fantasy and Hannan. It's been disproven many times, like lots of Brexiteer lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: Yup, posted - Spoiler, they've outlined around 75% of laws affect them. This includes short term laws, many laws, the main one they don't is CAP. ALL Single Market rules are accepted at signing and whilst they technically do have a right to not take them on, they've never done it, or should I say they nearly did it once in 2011, but then put it off until 2013, when they simply accepted it. The 20% figure is one borne of fantasy and Hannan. It's been disproven many times, like lots of Brexiteer lies. Can you send me the link again...I seem to have missed them.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 45 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: You're also wrong about Churchil who was very clear in his Hague speech that he saw Britain as an indelible part of Europe. I saw that you edited you post (as above) with a completely different point to your original post. Please would you try and keep retrospective edits to speling mistakes & typos? There's enough to keep up with here without people going back and substantially changing the point of previous posts. It'd be even more chaotic here if every practiced the same. If you have a new point, please make a new post. I've found a reference to the speech you are referring to here: https://www.cvce.eu/en/obj/address_given_by_winston_churchill_at_the_congress_of_europe_in_the_hague_7_may_1948-en-58118da1-af22-48c0-bc88-93cda974f42c.html Please would you be so kind to quote the particular part of Churchill's speech that refers to 'he saw Britain as an indelible part of Europe.' - I've skimmed the speech and didn't find anything related? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 I'll help you Hairy...For instance, Iceland... https://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/politics_and_society/2015/10/21/iceland_has_adopted_10_prosent_of_eu_laws/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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