ccc Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 4 hours ago, pig said: Wow what a mess. Anyway, democracy still does not equal Populism - it’s er democracy, so keep on wiping. No actual points to make ? Shock horror. So what about Farage the nazi who said the same thing your hero did ? 2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: Do you disagree with the Trump point? In the months before the vote the £s value was depressed because of the possibility of a vote for Brexit, as shown by its spike up when it looked like Remain had won. Comparing its value today with 1.32E ish is probably fair so a 13% devaluation. You ignore that the UK economy was pulling away from the rest of Europe at the time of the vote but now we are the laggard, that's quite a trick to pull off at the same time as devaluing your currency by 16% (trade weighted average over the period). You also ignore that a major part of the reason the £ has recovered is that business now expects we are going to get a BRINO. It's pretty clear now that there is little prospect of a hard Brexit and the economic logic of settling for a Brexit that allows but doesn't force divergence from the EU is that we will not use that freedom. Add to this the fact that the HO is working on a EU migration system that is effectively FoM, as it is implemented today by states such as Belgium (prove you can support yourself and register). You are desperate not to admit that the howling you and others did over the terrible exchange rate collapse was actually a damp squib. It's so incredibly obvious. It's black and white. 1.4 = 1.4 Get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 4 hours ago, pig said: Wow what a mess. Anyway, democracy still does not equal Populism - it’s er democracy, so keep on wiping. Are ukip, SNP, dup and plaid cymru populist parties or not ? Spit it out loud mouth. You seem all shy all of a sudden. Like a few others on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Riedquat said: And if that upsets people enough they'll get voted out. If they don't get voted out then blame Labour for being unelectably hopeless, not Brexit. Or the voters who didn’t read the rather obvious small print: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, ccc said: Are ukip, SNP, dup and plaid cymru populist parties or not ? Spit it out loud mouth. You seem all shy all of a sudden. Like a few others on here. Well it was just utter garbage and I’ve already suggested you go clean up the mess in your head yourself. I’m sure you’ve had an impressive row over Orban with somebody somewhere but best just lie down for a bit now eh ? Perhaps this helps: if you’re a neo-fascist then yes I guess ‘populism’ may as well be the same for you as ‘democracy’. But then why get worked up about it ? these concepts wouldn’t really matter to you as you wouldn’t actually give a feck about democracy anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Dave Beans said: This option is on the table as I’ve always said. That's great, and can we have that without the four freedoms, ECofJ and annual payments into the budget? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, pig said: Well it was just utter garbage and I’ve already suggested you go clean up the mess in your head yourself. I’m sure you’ve had an impressive row over Orban with somebody somewhere but best just lie down for a bit now eh ? Perhaps this helps: if you’re a neo-fascist then yes I guess ‘populism’ may as well be the same for you as ‘democracy’. But then why get worked up about it ? these concepts wouldn’t really matter to you as you wouldn’t actually give a feck about democracy anyway. You are the one who wants an open democratic vote to be overturned because the majority didn't vote for what you wanted. It's a childish attitude. You need to grow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 6 hours ago, ccc said: Breaking Point ? Heil Farage ? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/migrants-coming-into-europe-reach-record-highs/2015/09/13/5c2732e9-dc33-4528-850d-94361c7b0917_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.293f5e172049 I wonder where he got that phrase from. Ah yes - the Germans themselves. The ones who invited in millions in the first place. "Germany on Sunday said it was reaching a breaking point" "Berlin says the emergency on its southeastern border is a question of national security" So is Merkel also a Nazi ? Or is that only if Farage says it ? But German officals can say it and its fine ? Please educate us on your logic. Or lack of it. Hello Pig boy. Any comment on this? Or just the usual remainer denial because it doesn't fit with your close minded viewpoint ? So very very lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, thehowler said: That's great, and can we have that without the four freedoms, ECofJ and annual payments into the budget? It doesn't come under the ECJ, and there's no direct payments to the EU. FoM could be worked on as well. Edited April 11, 2018 by Dave Beans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 2 hours ago, thehowler said: Not how I see it, I'd say we were running out of steam and due to be overtaken. How much has Mario printed again - "whatever it takes" and he's still going at €30 billion per month. And there is the fact we were just about to embark on one of the most daring, foolhardy and unpredictable moves in living memory. Fair according to who? Remember all that talk of sterling going to parity with the euro - do you still expect that? Or do you think we'll keep inching up, as I do? That in mind... Is that right? Do you think we'll stay in the single market? I don't. And if we don't, we're out, as Tusk would say. But we were doing well, on the date of the vote the economy was still gaining momentum and then we had a huge devaluation, an interest rate cut, more QE and a pretty much unlimited supply of free money for the banks. Normally that would be a recipe for a boom but instead we got a slowdown. Fair according to the market, and pretty much in line with what you would have expected given the rapidly (relatively) growing economy. I think we will be in transition or at least some form of BRINO for a lot longer than the currently planned for 2 years. Just today Barnier said we can still decide to remain in the single market even after we leave the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Confusion of VIs said: But we were doing well, on the date of the vote the economy was still gaining momentum and then we had a huge devaluation, an interest rate cut, more QE and a pretty much unlimited supply of free money for the banks. Normally that would be a recipe for a boom but instead we got a slowdown. Fair according to the market, and pretty much in line with what you would have expected given the rapidly (relatively) growing economy. I think we will be in transition or at least some form of BRINO for a lot longer than the currently planned for 2 years. Just today Barnier said we can still decide to remain in the single market even after we leave the EU. Oh well then let's just do that forever and we will be the richest place in the universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 53 minutes ago, ccc said: You are desperate not to admit that the howling you and others did over the terrible exchange rate collapse was actually a damp squib. It's so incredibly obvious. It's black and white. 1.4 = 1.4 Get over it. I note you have no argument with what I posted. All sorts of obvious things become less obvious once you dig a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, ccc said: Oh well then let's just do that forever and we will be the richest place in the universe. Not really sure what your point is, or even if there is one. We only needed to do it because of the Brexit vote, it was done to avoid a recession not to make us rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 20 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: But we were doing well, on the date of the vote the economy I get what you're saying, Confusion of VIs, but at some point you'll have to recognize there was an underlying problem with the UK economy, its trading emphasis and future well-being - the majority of its citizens wanted to break links with the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, thehowler said: I get what you're saying, Confusion of VIs, but at some point you'll have to recognize there was an underlying problem with the UK economy, its trading emphasis and future well-being - the majority of its citizens wanted to break links with the EU. Its unfortunately not going to be that easy... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/10/eu-will-seek-non-regression-clause-to-tie-uk-to-environmental-standards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 That democracy thang is so inconvenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Facetious quip aside, this latest series of remarks from Barnier suggests we're much further along on the negotiations than I'd thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Or if they're not further along, then perhaps the EU is planning to run loose discussions on the future deal right through the transition years? It reminds me of that odd Thornberry remark a few weeks back, when she said the October vote would be all blah blah blah and get through easily. So, the EU might just kick the can all the way through the next three years, hoping we change our minds? Thinking about it, how would they do anything else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, thehowler said: Facetious quip aside, this latest series of remarks from Barnier suggests we're much further along on the negotiations than I'd thought... Bar the Irish question. The EU seem to be fully prepared to direct down the CETA route. Edited April 11, 2018 by Dave Beans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 5 hours ago, pig said: 1. Cool - feel free to explain your non-prejudiced unperverted view. 2. Are you a betting man ? 1. Would you agree that the political lexicon has enough -isms to avoid, sloppy or malicious reportage or posting? WRT Corbyn/Labour, of course it is populism, coloured with left wingism with a dash of civic nationalism. Previously posted this excerpt... Quote Populism is a political philosophy supporting the rights and power of the people in their struggle against a privileged elite.[1] Critics of populism have described it as a political approach that seeks to disrupt the existing social order by solidifying and mobilizing the animosity of the "commoner" or "the people" against "privileged elites" and the "establishment".[2] Populists can fall anywhere on the traditional left–right political spectrum of politics and often portray both bourgeois capitalists and socialist organizers as unfairly dominating the political sphere.[3 ... to which I can add this one: Quote ...The UK Labour Party under the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn has been called populist,[64][65][66] with the slogan "for the many not the few" having been used.[67][68][69] The United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP) had been characterised as a right-wing populist party.[70][71] After the 2016 UK referendum on membership of the European Union, in which British citizens voted to leave, some have claimed the "Brexit" as a victory for populism, encouraging a flurry of calls for referendums among other EU countries by populist political parties.[72] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: 7 hours ago, Sheeple Splinter said: 1. I disagree, that's just your prejudiced view based on the ongoing perversion of populism. Reminds me of a letter to the Telegraph I read about 30 years ago - from a retired colonel complaining that he cannot say he had a gay time in the park without everyone sniggering, because the homosexuals had perverted the word. Language changes, get over it. Case in point, gay has had another meaning for the last 20 odd years ... you might need to ask one of your children. That said, and this is old ground for us, at least one online definition of populism does include the perjorative use of the term. As I said above to Pig, there are enough -isms to qualify what type of populism is being discussed without being sloppy or malicious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 7 hours ago, spyguy said: Vibrant. http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/16149958.Seven_convicted_in_one_of_the_region_s_worst_examples_of_human_trafficking_and_modern_day_slavery/ FOM shoudl have never have hap[ened. DWP should have pulled their fuxing fingers out and denied all EE benefits. Hang on... EU has a burgeoning industry... Quote ‘Modern-day slavery’ on the rise in Europe: report Men working in agriculture, hospitality and fisheries are most at risk of exploitation, according to human rights body... https://www.politico.eu/article/labor-trafficking-exploitation-modern-day-slavery-on-the-rise-in-europe-report/ ... cue imputed, exploitation expenditure to be added here: Quote ...The treatment of missing values in the expenditure data The HBS expenditure data are liable to under-reporting errors, especially for sensitive items such as Alcohol, Tobacco, Narcotics, __________ and Prostitution etc. https://circabc.europa.eu/webdav/CircaBC/ESTAT/hbs/Library/working_groups/Working Group 2016/LC-160-16-EN_7.2 Principal HBS methodological documents(0).pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 7 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: I note you have no argument with what I posted. All sorts of obvious things become less obvious once you dig a little. The ranting and whining about how terrible it was that our £ had collapsed against the $ has now ceased to be true. Hence why yourself and the other usual suspects on here have suddenly decided not to regularly mention it. This is the important point. This is what you don't want to face up to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 6 hours ago, Sheeple Splinter said: 1. Would you agree that the political lexicon has enough -isms to avoid, sloppy or malicious reportage or posting? WRT Corbyn/Labour, of course it is populism, coloured with left wingism with a dash of civic nationalism. Previously posted this excerpt... ... to which I can add this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism No no no. Ok please get with it. "Populism" is only appropriate if it's a nasty racist political party that I don't like. I hope you now understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 7 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: Not really sure what your point is, or even if there is one. We only needed to do it because of the Brexit vote, it was done to avoid a recession not to make us rich. Brexit was just an excuse for Carney to do what he does whenever he can. You've been on here for 10+ years. Surely you understand this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 7 hours ago, thehowler said: That democracy thang is so inconvenient. Apparently this isn't actually democracy. Because the stupid non critical thinking populace voted the wrong way. The next general election is just going to consist of Parliament asking Pig what result they want - and then implementing that. Easier for us all. Wonderful. Why didn't we think of this before ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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