Battenberg Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I've just had a letter from my children's comprehensive school advising they will implementing this for the children to register, purchase lunch etc. I'm just not comfortable with it but I don't know if reading too much into it as perhaps I've been on here too long! Does anyone else have experience of this? This is what they say they will be doing. 'To clarify, biometric information is data about someone’s physical or behavioural characteristics that can be used to identify them. There are many possible biometrics, including for example, a digital photograph, fingerprint or hand shapes. As part of our identity management systems, we will record a biometric measurement taken from a finger, but not a fingerprint image. The information is stored in a highly secure database and will only be used by the School to confirm who is using a range of services. In future we may use other biometric services where appropriate. Our chosen solution allows us to use a secure database holding biometric data for use with a range of services. This means we will store the least amount of data possible. This reduces the risk of loss of data. There is an opt out which I will be choosing.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 What a creepy school. All I needed to purchase lunch was 20p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Just opt out. Sounds like total nonsense and completely pointless. Schools have operated for hundreds and hundreds of years without this idiocy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Teachers have their own biometric devices called eyes, and they can recognise individual pupils without name badges or bar codes tattoed on their foreheads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Just opt out. Sounds like total nonsense and completely pointless. Schools have operated for hundreds and hundreds of years without this idiocy. Spot on, but the world is changing, and not for any good reason either. You can opt out for now but you can bet that it won't be for much longer. The people who come up with these things, and those who happily go along with them, need removing before they can do more damage (but it's probably half the population). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpectrumFX Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I suppose it's better than a number tattooed on their arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleMeat Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 You can delay or probably scupper it pretty easily by endlessly asking pointless security related questions and demanding multiple clarifications before any implementation of the scheme. Get other parents involved as well and you can drive the poor school IT bods mental with random compliance issues. You will of course only be doing this out of concern for the little children's welfare. - where the database is hosted at country level (UK/DE/FR etc) - where the servers are managed from - what security measures and procedures are in place to safeguard the data - what encryption processes are used on the database, traffic to/from the remote reader terminals etc - what mitigation procedures they have in case of data loss and any possible route to receive damages in the case of loss - what the process of notification will be in case of a data breach - what data sharing agreements are in place (even "anonymized usage data stats") and details of all companies involved in these, plus their locations and any sub agreements they have (you can string this out for months) - what backup solution, where that is stored, security of the backups and how long the data is retained - auditing methods used to track access, retention of audit data etc - methods of opting out after implementation and removing any data pertaining to your child More here: http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/reform/index_en.htm Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I don't even use the finger print unlock function on my Samsung. I think you're a long way off that level of paranoia. What a bizarre idea for a school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justthisbloke Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 By law, schools have to offer a non-biometric alternative. That's the opt-out they're offering. Take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 By law, schools have to offer a non-biometric alternative. That's the opt-out they're offering. Take it. My goodness Mr J.T.Bloke! We should not be having to talk about this at all. It's pure sillyness of the Kafka variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battenberg Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 I would have said it was more of the Winston variety. That why I wondered if I was overthinking it but before we know it they'll be microchipping them at birth. I like Unclemeat's idea though. As Riedquat says, it's also the people that go along with it and I wouldn't trust the majority of parents to have the courage of their convictions and say no. There is an opt out which I will be choosing. It means that they will have to continue to use their fob to get lunch etc, something else I wasn't enamoured with when it was issued. We don't send them to school with money anymore. Heaven forbid they should be able to handle cash. It's all done via the BOMAD who load their fobs with a minimum of £20, I hasten to add, and send them on their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Cash still works for me Mrs Cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 There is a nativity in their implementation by schools. Nothing to fear... Of course, conditioning the young to this sort of things only makes it easier for the imposition of complete tracking in the future. Opt-out, encourage others to opt out. You can't trust the state now, imagine what it will be like in the future when they are found out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justthisbloke Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 There is an opt out which I will be choosing. It means that they will have to continue to use their fob to get lunch etc, something else I wasn't enamoured with when it was issued. We don't send them to school with money anymore. Heaven forbid they should be able to handle cash. It's all done via the BOMAD who load their fobs with a minimum of £20, I hasten to add, and send them on their way. How is the fob loaded? What happens if you don't have (or claim not have) a bank account/debit card/whatever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battenberg Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 How is the fob loaded? What happens if you don't have (or claim not have) a bank account/debit card/whatever? It's loaded via parentmail an online site that schools use to send emails, newsletters etc. You add your money to a basket and checkout. It's then registered against your childs fob. If you don't have an account and you don't want to use paypal then sandwiches it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 There's nothing wrong with sandwiches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgul Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Children are scummy. The intention is to stop the scummy children from stealing the dinner money / dinner magnetic card from each other. In this regard it works quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justthisbloke Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 It's loaded via parentmail an online site that schools use to send emails, newsletters etc. You add your money to a basket and checkout. It's then registered against your childs fob. If you don't have an account and you don't want to use paypal then sandwiches it is. A quick google search turns up a lot of schools using fobs and allowing cash top ups I don’t have a credit or debit card and want to pay cash, how do I do this? Any account can be topped up via the till point in the main school canteen between 07.45 – 08.15 each day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battenberg Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 A quick google search turns up a lot of schools using fobs and allowing cash top ups They've removed the cash option top up from our school now. It's card payments only. You used to be able to send them in with money and they'd load it on themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gardener Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Children are scummy. The intention is to stop the scummy children from stealing the dinner money / dinner magnetic card from each other. In this regard it works quite well.Not really. A child can still be bullied into buying say, a can of coke or snack / dinner for another child, under threat if a good kicking if they don't. Kids find a way round most things. At least the poor child who had their dinner money stolen before didn't have to suffer the indignity of actually physically buying the bully's lunch and delivering it to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gardener Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 The school one of my children attends implemented this type if fingerprint scanning system a couple of years back. I opted out and as a result she can use a handy easy to remember 10 digit number instead. I'm not sure why a school needs to have a code which can cater for 1 billion individuals but there you go. Even a NI number I only 9 characters. Anyhow, I refused my child to be fingerprinted since that is the sort of thing that we do to criminals etc not law-abiding innocent children. The school gave me a nonsensical speil about no image being stored etc only 10 points that uniquely identified the child but I wasn't buying any of it. Various lies are told about such systems, eg. Stops bullying, saves money, saves time, the child can't be identified from the data stored, the fingerprint cant be reverse engineered and so on. The truth is that it's intrusive surveillance technology that is deliberately targeting children to soften them up for future draconian and ubiquitous biometric control. Many of the companies involved are making a tidy profit out of schools and some senior politicians are involved in running them. You can also bet that the police and security services will help themselves to this data (if they haven't already) all in the name of preventing terrorism and keeping us safe of course. In the USA, the State of Florida, having been an early adopter of biometrics in schools, has recently outlawed their use in school settings. Even China, a country not know for it's support of personal liberty and freedom does not allow their use. It would therefore come as no surprise to you to find that it is the UK that makes the most extensive use of biometrics in schools. Oh, and it seems that my daughter was the only child in her year not taken to be fingerprinted at the start of term. God help us if every other parent thought it was a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy_renting Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I think this fingerprint thing is a great idea. How else will a child learn that the state will monitor it's every move and intrude on every detail of their life, and it will make it easier to automate the tracking and prosecution of parents who dare to exercise some sort of involvement in their child's upbringing by deciding if and when they should go to school. It's all part of their subjugation education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wherebee Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 The school one of my children attends implemented this type if fingerprint scanning system a couple of years back. I opted out and as a result she can use a handy easy to remember 10 digit number instead. I'm not sure why a school needs to have a code which can cater for 1 billion individuals but there you go. Even a NI number I only 9 characters. Anyhow, I refused my child to be fingerprinted since that is the sort of thing that we do to criminals etc not law-abiding innocent children. The school gave me a nonsensical speil about no image being stored etc only 10 points that uniquely identified the child but I wasn't buying any of it. Various lies are told about such systems, eg. Stops bullying, saves money, saves time, the child can't be identified from the data stored, the fingerprint cant be reverse engineered and so on. The truth is that it's intrusive surveillance technology that is deliberately targeting children to soften them up for future draconian and ubiquitous biometric control. Many of the companies involved are making a tidy profit out of schools and some senior politicians are involved in running them. You can also bet that the police and security services will help themselves to this data (if they haven't already) all in the name of preventing terrorism and keeping us safe of course. In the USA, the State of Florida, having been an early adopter of biometrics in schools, has recently outlawed their use in school settings. Even China, a country not know for it's support of personal liberty and freedom does not allow their use. It would therefore come as no surprise to you to find that it is the UK that makes the most extensive use of biometrics in schools. Oh, and it seems that my daughter was the only child in her year not taken to be fingerprinted at the start of term. God help us if every other parent thought it was a good idea. 100% correct. I have worked on/with a number of systems and projects that deal with sensitive data and its ALWAYS what can we say to get the great unwashed to shut up, not how do we make it secure. Don't trust anything unless you built it yourself. And then do not trust yourself not to have fecked up. Imagine a situation where a rape happens at school and a fingerprint is found? They going to deny police access? Of course not. Now all that luverly data is held by a third party not known for getting important stuff right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XswampyX Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 .... The truth is that it's intrusive surveillance technology that is deliberately targeting children to soften them up for future draconian and ubiquitous biometric control. .... +1 on this. You have to ask why is this bad? Imagine a world where everything to do depends on your fingerprint, you then post on Facebook that the government sucks a$$. With the flick of a switch your whole life is ruined. No job, no entry to buildings, no money. Who wants to live in a world like that.... Primary school teacher scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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