crashmonitor Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) Completed yesterday after a short stint of owning neatly tied into fifteen quarters from 1st July 2012 to 30th March 2016. Bought for 242500 and sold for 275,000. Gross purchase 246,680, net sale proceeds 270,279. The actual sale was pretty much in line with all the indicies with reference to the purchase price. Account Profit on sale after all transaction costs...............23,599 Saving on rent.....................................................31,500 (at £700 per month) Gross Profit.........................................................55,099 Less Costs Repairs and Renewals.......................6000 Lost investment income at 2%..........19025........25,025 (on principal 246,680) Net gain..............................................................30,074 Verdict 30 grand not worth the hassle and lack of freedom of renting. Renting wins hands down. especially as I do all the work, the garden, the financials, the DIY, the worrying and the missus does note. she was even at work yesterday while I did all the moving logistics. Not owning feels bloody wonderful. The net gain to me as an individual after all is only 15 grand, knowing what I now know I would have just rented. Edited March 31, 2016 by crashmonitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 So why are you looking to buy again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 So why are you looking to buy again? God knows. I really want to emulate the Count and keep my powder dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) Completed yesterday after a short stint of owning neatly tied into fifteen quarters from 1st July 2012 to 30th March 2016. Bought for 242500 and sold for 275,000. Gross purchase 246,680, net sale proceeds 270,279. The actual sale was pretty much in line with all the indicies with reference to the purchase price. Account Profit on sale after all transaction costs...............23,599 Saving on rent.....................................................31,500 (at £700 per month) Gross Profit.........................................................55,099 Less Costs Repairs and Renewals.......................6000 Lost investment income at 2%..........19025........25,025 (on principal 246,680) Net gain..............................................................30,074 Verdict 30 grand not worth the hassle and lack of freedom of renting. Renting wins hands down. especially as I do all the work, the garden, the financials, the DIY, the worrying and the missus does note. she was even at work yesterday while I did all the moving logistics. Not owning feels bloody wonderful. The net gain to me as an individual after all is only 15 grand, knowing what I now know I would have just rented. I would expect to do better than 2% for investment income on £250k. Invested over the same period in the average Global fund, it would've delivered a little north of 30% (i.e. a total gain in the ballpark of £80k). In UK equity income that's even better: around 40%. Money-printing has delivered a largely-artificial bull market, and equities have done better than your house on account of having been better value in 2012 (as I believe they still are). [edit] Meant to add, I'm paying £700/month rent. That's been covered by investment income for the last three years, (2015 I made over £12k) on a portfolio whose total net cost to date is £100k. Edited March 31, 2016 by porca misèria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) I would expect to do better than 2% for investment income on £250k. Invested over the same period in the average Global fund, it would've delivered a little north of 30% (i.e. a total gain in the ballpark of £80k). In UK equity income that's even better: around 40%. Money-printing has delivered a largely-artificial bull market, and equities have done better than your house on account of having been better value in 2012 (as I believe they still are). [edit] Meant to add, I'm paying £700/month rent. That's been covered by investment income for the last three years, (2015 I made over £12k) on a portfolio whose total net cost to date is £100k. Well I'm a Bear and play it safe. Still pondering on why I keep buying property....24 year M I's question.....like Everest it screws you up, shortens your life and makes you work like a Trojan. I guess the answer is because it's there. Edited March 31, 2016 by crashmonitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Well I'm a Bear and play it safe. Still pondering on why I keep buying property....24 year M I's question.....like Everest it screws you up, shortens your life and makes you work like a Trojan. I guess the answer is because it's there. Sorry but it is the elephant in the room.At least my wife, who was desperate to buy, plans on selling up when we get to your age and buggering off. In your position, isn't renting a nice flat the logical choice? Small, low maintenance, low running costs, no worry, great flexibility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) Sorry but it is the elephant in the room. At least my wife, who was desperate to buy, plans on selling up when we get to your age and buggering off. In your position, isn't renting a nice flat the logical choice? Small, low maintenance, low running costs, no worry, great flexibility? Exactly what a vendor asked me when viewing a listed Jacobean farmhouse last week, wouldn't you better off with a small flat....but actually dredging the lake and clearly the brambles in the one acre wood sort of appealed...until I've had my fussy of course. Something to do innit. Edited March 31, 2016 by crashmonitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckin2up2down Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I'm in bubbly bristol and have owned for a few years. Looking to sell soon, it all really depends on the price as to if it was worth it. If it sells for what I think its worth what would give a 40k profit, so maybe just worth the 9 months of work I did on it (no job) and living in a mess. However if it sells at the higher end its 90k. This is all due to bubbly bristol and it going crazy recently. Most people don't bother doing the sums properly like you have and just see the bought and sold values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) I'm in bubbly bristol and have owned for a few years. Looking to sell soon, it all really depends on the price as to if it was worth it. If it sells for what I think its worth what would give a 40k profit, so maybe just worth the 9 months of work I did on it (no job) and living in a mess. However if it sells at the higher end its 90k. This is all due to bubbly bristol and it going crazy recently. Most people don't bother doing the sums properly like you have and just see the bought and sold values. It goes beyond simply money too, that 9 months of mess is an emotional drain which money can't compensate for. In the beginning the land was pure, and then a socialist called Blair invented an economy based on buying and selling houses into a Ponzied market and it became the economy. Freed from the manacles of being a slave to a house and its value BOY Can I FEEL IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!. It's the elation of being free be it only for a few months, excuse my levity I am demob happy........ Edited March 31, 2016 by crashmonitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Completed yesterday after a short stint of owning neatly tied into fifteen quarters from 1st July 2012 to 30th March 2016. Bought for 242500 and sold for 275,000. Gross purchase 246,680, net sale proceeds 270,279. The actual sale was pretty much in line with all the indicies with reference to the purchase price. Account Profit on sale after all transaction costs...............23,599 Saving on rent.....................................................31,500 (at £700 per month) Gross Profit.........................................................55,099 Less Costs Repairs and Renewals.......................6000 Lost investment income at 2%..........19025........25,025 (on principal 246,680) Net gain..............................................................30,074 Does "Profit on sale after all transaction cost" include your mortgage interest ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) Does "Profit on sale after all transaction cost" include your mortgage interest ?We didn't have a mortgage, I just factored in lost investment income at a rather Bearish 2%, actually I have done about 3.5% over the last four years on investments with a bit of speculating, but I wouldn't have speculated with the top slice (house money) of 250k since 2012 so 2% is fair. The minus when you are owning mortgage free is repairs and renewals and 6k is what has been spent and factored.A lot of luck came into this account, I sold many can't. The right buyer at the right time. Renting makes sense a every level if you want freedom, so money shouldn't come into it. Edited March 31, 2016 by crashmonitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assume The Opposite Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 The main thing for me is that I'm paying almost 50% of my net income to just the rent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) It goes beyond simply money too, that 9 months of mess is an emotional drain which money can't compensate for. In the beginning the land was pure, and then a socialist called Blair invented an economy based on buying and selling houses into a Ponzied market and it became the economy. Freed from the manacles of being a slave to a house and its value BOY Can I FEEL IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!. It's the elation of being free be it only for a few months, excuse my levity I am demob happy........ Blair isn't a socialist. Banking criminals and free market capitalists invented the 'light touch' economic model, Blair merely borrowed it. Edited March 31, 2016 by zugzwang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 Blair isn't a socialist. Banking criminals and free market capitalists invented the 'light touch' economic model, Blair merely borrowed it. Yep it needed inverted comas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckin2up2down Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 It goes beyond simply money too, that 9 months of mess is an emotional drain which money can't compensate for. In the beginning the land was pure, and then a socialist called Blair invented an economy based on buying and selling houses into a Ponzied market and it became the economy. Freed from the manacles of being a slave to a house and its value BOY Can I FEEL IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!. It's the elation of being free be it only for a few months, excuse my levity I am demob happy........ Totally agree. At the time I said I would never do it again, but now i'm forgetting how bad it was. I'm sure all the dust is the reason now several years later I still have issues with my eyes from time to time. Even at 90k probably wasn't worth it. Was 24/7, I could earn a decent amount doing a job just 10 hours 5 days a week. What are you doing next? I'm really looking forward to renting for 6 months while I look for an auction or something sensibly priced. Just not looking forward to moving the vast amount of stuff I've built up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) Totally agree. At the time I said I would never do it again, but now i'm forgetting how bad it was. I'm sure all the dust is the reason now several years later I still have issues with my eyes from time to time. Even at 90k probably wasn't worth it. Was 24/7, I could earn a decent amount doing a job just 10 hours 5 days a week. What are you doing next? I'm really looking forward to renting for 6 months while I look for an auction or something sensibly priced. Just not looking forward to moving the vast amount of stuff I've built up. I'm hoping to do absolutely nothing, the chartered accountant that is supposed to be taking on my remaining clients hasn't got in touch and hope that is just because of Easter. It's bloody great I earn diddly squat and can't even retire because of duty of care whilst bloody CEOs can walk out the next day. Edited March 31, 2016 by crashmonitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushblairandbrown Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Saving on rent.....................................................31,500 (at £700 per month) Wow. Please tell me where I can rent a £250k house for £700pcm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suntory Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Completed yesterday after a short stint of owning neatly tied into fifteen quarters from 1st July 2012 to 30th March 2016. Bought for 242500 and sold for 275,000. Gross purchase 246,680, net sale proceeds 270,279. The actual sale was pretty much in line with all the indicies with reference to the purchase price. Account Profit on sale after all transaction costs...............23,599 Saving on rent.....................................................31,500 (at £700 per month) Gross Profit.........................................................55,099 Less Costs Repairs and Renewals.......................6000 Lost investment income at 2%..........19025........25,025 (on principal 246,680) Net gain..............................................................30,074 Verdict 30 grand not worth the hassle and lack of freedom of renting. Renting wins hands down. especially as I do all the work, the garden, the financials, the DIY, the worrying and the missus does note. she was even at work yesterday while I did all the moving logistics. Not owning feels bloody wonderful. The net gain to me as an individual after all is only 15 grand, knowing what I now know I would have just rented. Thanks for this cm. Fascinating insight. Could I ask if you factored in EA fees, solicitor fees, surveyor fees and building insurance? Also, would it be possible to run the same calculation for a 10. % down 25 year mortgage? I'm curious to see if the buyer would have made an actual loss in real terms. Thanks for your work on this. Great research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I pictured CM more like Mr Humphries than Roger Daltrey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewig Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Did you not consider just renting it out?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Did you not consider just renting it out?? How would that help?.......if it is rented how can you use it?.......if you can't use it, why would you keep it?.......cash you can use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckin2up2down Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I'm hoping to do absolutely nothing, the chartered accountant that is supposed to be taking on my remaining clients hasn't got in touch and hope that is just because of Easter. It's bloody great I earn diddly squat and can't even retire because of duty of care whilst bloody CEOs can walk out the next day. Sounds like the best thing to be doing. What are you doing for housing? Said something about only renting for a short amount of time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 We didn't have a mortgage, I just factored in lost investment income at a rather Bearish 2%, actually I have done about 3.5% over the last four years on investments with a bit of speculating, but I wouldn't have speculated with the top slice (house money) of 250k since 2012 so 2% is fair. The minus when you are owning mortgage free is repairs and renewals and 6k is what has been spent and factored. A lot of luck came into this account, I sold many can't. The right buyer at the right time. Renting makes sense a every level if you want freedom, so money shouldn't come into it. Fair enough, And If you take 3% as the figure, what does that give you ? Some things you cant factor for....lost opportunity, what if you'd lost your job and had to move, crazy ba8start neightbours moving in next door. It's an interesting example though, definitely worth posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewig Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 How would that help?.......if it is rented how can you use it?.......if you can't use it, why would you keep it?.......cash you can use. Because you can't lose with bricks and mortar why would you sell a house? Just rent it out and get some renter scum to pay your mortgage off for you. It's your pension innit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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