Foreign Students Four Times More Likely To Cheat As Officials Catch 50,000 Exam Fraudsters

[spyguy]

The big clue that people don't do the work themselves is in the teacher training adverts.

They run something like "Got a geography degree? Want to teach geography? First you need to pass a basic maths and english test before you can do the PCGE"

No one who has genuinely got a degree should need to do a maths and english test.

You say that but a lot of the low-end non-vocation and arts + humanities degrees have really poor English and non-existent maths.

[debtlessmanc]

widespread and sometime flagrant at our university and yes their is a strong cultural aspect. Too many stories to tell here, but the most extreme was contacted by cousin of student once to say that she had written his dissertation and should be failed, but she could not identify herself as he might injure her or her children or worse...

edit typos

[spyguy]

widespread and sometime flagrant at our university and yes their is a strong cultural aspect. Too many stories to tell here, but the most extreme was contacted by cousin of student once to say that she had written his dissertation and should be failed, but she could not identify herself as he might injure her or her children or worse...

edit typos

Which cultures are those then?

Wide spread? Or just limited to the sub-continent and ME?

[SarahBell]

You say that but a lot of the low-end non-vocation and arts + humanities degrees have really poor English and non-existent maths.

143% of people would agree with that.

[stormymonday_2011]

I had to do a big dissertation for a postgraduate degree; I didn't enjoy it and didn't learn much from doing it; other than there was no way that I was going on to do a PhD and have another four years if the same.

They don't seem to have much value in terms of learning things and I have a distrust of "projects" in general.

I have worked with numerous people who have taken the junior accountancy qualification AAT and the majority of them haven't completed it because it ends with a big project which assesses little bar their ability to do projects which is not what an intensely practical bookkeeping course should be doing.

I guess they are one of those things that will always be with us but they don't seem to serve any educational purposes.

Looking back if I could have paid for one for a reasonable sum then I would have done as it would have meant a six month summer holiday.

One wonders how many PhD theses are ever read again once completed. They are supposed to represent original research that adds to the sum of human knowledge. The truth is most just go onto the huge pile of largely unpublished, unread and often unreadable academic literature.

http://www.economist.com/node/17723223/

[debtlessmanc]

Which cultures are those then?

Wide spread? Or just limited to the sub-continent and ME?

an china, in my experience, uk and european students tend to get annoyed that people are cheating and sometimes report it

[Riedquat]

Cheating is human nature and that's what drives the world. We should embrace it, not stick to some stuffy old-fashioned Victorian views about honesty.

[winkie]

Cheating is human nature and that's what drives the world. We should embrace it, not stick to some stuffy old-fashioned Victorian views about honesty.

...cheaters that get away with it become ever needier and greedier so take bigger risks, human nature.......will turn round and bite them hard......no winners in the cheating game.

[Mrs Bear]

When I was fairly new to teaching English in Oman, I had to invigilate my class for their exam. Most of the students worked for various ministries and their course were paid for by their govt. Often they were due to be sent on various courses in the Uk so passing their exams was important.

At some point during this exam I became aware that one student was quite blatantly peering at another student's work, and the other was obviously cooperating. There was no attempt to do it covertly and since the one who was doing the peering had a reasonably high profile job in one of the other Gulf State embassies, it was ticklish politically. I did say his name in a firmly warning tone, but he took absolutely no notice. Luckily it was almost time for another teacher to take over. He was a lot more experienced, and quite unfazed. He just said, 'I'll fix them,' and went and stood between their desks for the rest of the time, just as obviously stopping it as they had been obvious in doing it.

It was an eye opener for me, that cheating in an exam could be so utterly blatant. 'Cultural' differences indeed.

However this was the only time I saw such a thing.

[interestrateripoff]

One wonders how many PhD theses are ever read again once completed. They are supposed to represent original research that adds to the sum of human knowledge. The truth is most just go onto the huge pile of largely unpublished, unread and often unreadable academic literature.

http://www.economist.com/node/17723223/

Considering most now exist in digital format it's amazing Universities don't publish PhD theses themselves in a digital library, considering the idea of a PhD is that it's publishable quality. Unless of course the majority of theses are of limited use and it was the supervisor trying something which didn't quite work and ultimately isn't interesting. The other issue is has the supervisor plagiarised the students work and doesn't want to be found out?

Writing essays is itself plagiarism as ultimately you are trying to string a narrative together citing other peoples work, do it correctly and you pass. There must be lots of people incapable of doing a degree doing a degree or doing a subject they aren't interested in meaning they don't want to read the literature.

[dgul]

Just to add a little - 20 odd years ago I did some PG tutoring* at a couple of Russell Group universities - there were some non-UK students and by-and-large they were all clever and worked hard.

Of course, that was then and this is now... Perhaps back then you had to be good to even get out of the country (even then it was 50% Chinese) - I'd accept that these days you're getting a high % of wealthy kids buying their education, and for whom paying out is just what needs to be done.

* - very badly. I realised quickly that that sort of thing wasn't for me...

One wonders how many PhD theses are ever read again once completed. They are supposed to represent original research that adds to the sum of human knowledge. The truth is most just go onto the huge pile of largely unpublished, unread and often unreadable academic literature.

I think the current PhD model isn't fit for purpose these days - too many students, not enough jobs - and what exactly are you learning anyway? As the economist article suggests, it is more of a rite-of-passage that gains you entry to the academic world, than a useful training exercise. I'm more in favour of the Scandinavian model, which at least demands that your output is of high enough quality, and is peer reviewed by people outside of your department's zone of influence.

[interestrateripoff]

In early 2012 I was offered $25k USD per dissertation for Arab undergraduates. The trick apparently is to deliberately aim for a 3rd or 2:2.

I declined the offer as I had other pressing issues in my life but I reckon if I'd stayed in KSA I could have comfortable raked in another 50-75 k USD a year tax free

$25k just to get a 3rd or at best a 2:2??

For a few months work where do I sign up? Although how does one aim for a 3rd?

[stormymonday_2011]

Considering most now exist in digital format it's amazing Universities don't publish PhD theses themselves in a digital library, considering the idea of a PhD is that it's publishable quality. Unless of course the majority of theses are of limited use and it was the supervisor trying something which didn't quite work and ultimately isn't interesting. The other issue is has the supervisor plagiarised the students work and doesn't want to be found out?

Writing essays is itself plagiarism as ultimately you are trying to string a narrative together citing other peoples work, do it correctly and you pass. There must be lots of people incapable of doing a degree doing a degree or doing a subject they aren't interested in meaning they don't want to read the literature.

I think more PhDs are being published now though largely it seems so that academic institutions can get their quota of published works up in order to qualify for government research grants. I suspect most will still remain unread. According to the Economist article many PhD students particularly in the self funded areas of research are gaining very little from the process. It also appears that the drop out rate is very high and not necessarily amongst the least able students. Doctorates always seemed to me to be some sort of endurance test\initation process inflicted by academia. In the past they did at least offer a route to a career in higher education but so many are being churned out now I doubt this is still the case.

[winkie]

Maybe the culture and upbringing of some people is they think money can and will buy them anything....isn't that how bribery and corruption works?

[Guest TheBlueCat]

Maybe they didn't teach any French maths.

Nah, it was a Canadian degree, it's pretty much a constitutional requirement to teach French stuff here!

[MrPin]

Nah, it was a Canadian degree, it's pretty much a constitutional requirement to teach French stuff here!

The French made a lot of mathematicians,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:French_mathematicians

Laplace, etc

I thought of doing a PhD once, but once I saw the full scope of the research, I went into heating and ventilating instead.

[Highway to Hell]

I've always thought it was short-sighted to cheat / not try to get an understanding of what you presumably have some intention of ultimately doing for a living.

It also becomes pretty obvious when people don't understand the subject, regardless of what qualifications they may claim during the interview process. It also regularly crops up that when it slowly becomes understood (by the interviewee, during the course of the interview) that the qualifications will actually be verified, there is genuine shock at this. I've encountered this many times, where beyond simply cheating on a course, people outright lie about having taken the course entirely.

[MrPin]

I've always thought it was short-sighted to cheat / not try to get an understanding of what you presumably have some intention of ultimately doing for a living.

It also becomes pretty obvious when people don't understand the subject, regardless of what qualifications they may claim during the interview process. It also regularly crops up that when it slowly becomes understood (by the interviewee, during the course of the interview) that the qualifications will actually be verified, there is genuine shock at this. I've encountered this many times, where beyond simply cheating on a course, people outright lie about having taken the course entirely.

I've seen that too, and some employers do not check. Mind you, it doesn't mean they can't do the job.

I brought all my certificates in to be photocopied for one job I got. They had asked for them, in the paperwork, but they actually took my word for it! They were a bit surprised that I physically brought them in!

[Guest TheBlueCat]

It also regularly crops up that when it slowly becomes understood (by the interviewee, during the course of the interview) that the qualifications will actually be verified, there is genuine shock at this. I've encountered this many times, where beyond simply cheating on a course, people outright lie about having taken the course entirely.

You'd be surprised how many companies don't do any meaningful check on people's qualifications before hiring them. I've always assumed that HR won't be able to do it properly or can't be bothered so I tend to do my own informal verification before deciding I want to make an offer to someone - most universities will tell you over the phone that someone with the name in question (doesn't mean it's the same person of course) has a degree in a given subject awarded on a particular date so it's not too hard for English speaking countries. It's a total non-starter for China though.

[MrPin]

You'd be surprised how many companies don't do any meaningful check on people's qualifications before hiring them.

Yes, they don't, and for the Chinese, there seems to be a limited pool of names. So Mr Lee Chen, is not as unique and traceable as Godfrey Benedict Half-Time-Goal Donkey-Farthing.

[winkie]

I've seen that too, and some employers do not check. Mind you, it doesn't mean they can't do the job.

I brought all my certificates in to be photocopied for one job I got. They had asked for them, in the paperwork, but they actually took my word for it! They were a bit surprised that I physically brought them in!

Best to be honest.....I told my future boss in interview I did not hold any certificates, he only had to look at my past proven record and references....

[MrPin]

Best to be honest.....I told my future boss in interview I did not hold any certificates, he only had to look at my past proven record and references....

Honesty works with me. I just might offer them the job!

One bloke said "I don't know about that". Well we took him on anyway, and a course and some books worked wonders!

[winkie]

Honesty works with me. I just might offer them the job!

One bloke said "I don't know about that". Well we took him on anyway, and a course and some books worked wonders!

Totally agree....I have been on loads of courses and learned lots of things, and read many books....like already mentioned a good interviewer should be able to easily suss out the dishonest shifty character.

[sPinwheel]

I only cheat on my CV and my women.

[Riedquat]

I'd have to answer "I've forgotten that" for most stuff degree-related. I'd forgotten most of it by the time of the exams, which is why I didn't do very well (even though I passed). Ending up with a third is one of my bigger regrets, but if I did it again I'd still probably be too lazy to do better.