silver surfer Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 You cannot be serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erat_forte Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Money buys you time - and that is something more valuable than money itself. Time to do what you want to do. To think, to contemplate, to read, to write, etc. The worlds richest - billionaires and all, still haven't been able to pay someone to stop ill health, aging, and death. Yet people sell their time to get money. Isn't it better to cut out the middleman, and just work less? Being happy, being money-poor but time-rich? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sPinwheel Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 This is interesting because at some point, one may be faced with a choice of a better paid job (involving more stress, and possibly reduced happiness). Logically one should turn it down, but it doesnt always seem to work that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Beyond a certain sum that buys you the basics, the money / happiness link becomes a moot point, and what takes on more significance is the exposure to marketing / lifestyle aspirations / comparisons with your fellow man. We live in a country where it is now impossible to avoid almost hourly self-analysis with the rest of the population - whether it’s a billboard advert, Facebook, TV commercial, friend off on holiday / buying a new car etc For most of us, this constant comparison is the source of our happiness / unhappiness in relation to money, rather than the actual money itself. What I’m saying is that if you could remove these elements from society, the desire to chase money and achieve the illusionary happiness we believe it provides would diminish. +1 I discovered this in 2001 leaving a well paid city job behind me to join the army for a few years then onto a wallpapering (b0ll0x) civil service job taking time in lieu of pay progression (i.e. keeping salary the same as before) and was only working 3 days a week by the time I met my wife. The only possessions I had were few but I did have a paraglider and time. Best years of my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish I could afford one Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 This is interesting because at some point, one may be faced with a choice of a better paid job (involving more stress, and possibly reduced happiness). Logically one should turn it down, but it doesnt always seem to work that way. This is my situation. Since 2007 my earnings (ex investments) are up 128% from a few new roles This has certainly increased my stress greatly and I'm also working/commuting a lot of hours now. My happiness is improved but not because of the work. It's because of my opting out of the consumerism race. Why did I take the higher paying jobs? Simply it's greatly accelerating my progress to FI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travisher Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 For some it is not about money. One of my guys said he didn't care whether he was paid or not, he would still turn up because he loved what he was doing at work. Another I have ordered to shut down his computer and go to bed - he waited half an hour before logging back on to work thinking I'd have gone to bed myself. If you love what you are doing, beyond a certain level money becomes irrelevant because you are so immersed in what you are doing. Take a look at Maslow's Triangle, once the basics are satisfied - set out to feed curiosity, your intellect, your soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainlessSteelCat Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 But surely diminishing returns kick in at some point? I am sure that a £10 bottle of wine is 2x "better" than a £5 one; but would a £100 bottle really be worth the extra over a £50 one (bragging rights aside)? The same applies for all sorts of things. Are the city boys on flash bikes in Richmond Park really getting 5x more pleasure out of their ride than me on my relatively humble cyclecross? Then, of course, there is the pleasure derived from extreme bargain finding. Picked up a decent bike from Tesco's sale for £65 last week. Haven't had a road bike since they were called racers back in the 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) For some it is not about money. One of my guys said he didn't care whether he was paid or not, he would still turn up because he loved what he was doing at work. Another I have ordered to shut down his computer and go to bed - he waited half an hour before logging back on to work thinking I'd have gone to bed myself. If you love what you are doing, beyond a certain level money becomes irrelevant because you are so immersed in what you are doing. Take a look at Maslow's Triangle, once the basics are satisfied - set out to feed curiosity, your intellect, your soul. I suffer from this - terrible at costing it. Edited February 25, 2015 by LiveinHope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timak Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 +1 I discovered this in 2001 leaving a well paid city job behind me to join the army for a few years then onto a wallpapering (b0ll0x) civil service job taking time in lieu of pay progression (i.e. keeping salary the same as before) and was only working 3 days a week by the time I met my wife. The only possessions I had were few but I did have a paraglider and time. Best years of my life. Vaguely remember discussing this with you a few years ago. I've been working 3 day weeks for 8 years now (starting in my mid 20s). Would never go back full time unless I found a passion. To afford this I live a relatively frugal lifestyle compared to my (not that high) income. Yes I'd like a bigger house but not enough to want to sign away 20 years of my working life for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 For some it is not about money. One of my guys said he didn't care whether he was paid or not, he would still turn up because he loved what he was doing at work. Another I have ordered to shut down his computer and go to bed - he waited half an hour before logging back on to work thinking I'd have gone to bed myself. If you love what you are doing, beyond a certain level money becomes irrelevant because you are so immersed in what you are doing. Take a look at Maslow's Triangle, once the basics are satisfied - set out to feed curiosity, your intellect, your soul. That's all well and good but I reckon basic survival costs around a minimum £12K/annum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) That's all well and good but I reckon basic survival costs around a minimum £12K/annum. spot on although you can reduce that by £1.5k if you don't run a car. Edited February 25, 2015 by LiveinHope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 This is my situation. Since 2007 my earnings (ex investments) are up 128% from a few new roles This has certainly increased my stress greatly and I'm also working/commuting a lot of hours now. My happiness is improved but not because of the work. It's because of my opting out of the consumerism race. Why did I take the higher paying jobs? Simply it's greatly accelerating my progress to FI. Don't forget to step off the treadmill in time to enjoy the fruits of your labour. I think we're aligned on the FI goal even though we are coming at it from different directions (I'm cheating ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) not much of a chart when it goes up to 120k , couple of kids in private school few decent holidays mortgage not going to go far. 500k a year would probably make me happy Edited February 25, 2015 by longgone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) For example, I am only divorced because I could afford it. I have mates who cannot afford divorce because they know they would be forced into a bedsit eating beans. They eat shit every day at home because of lack of money. but what if wifey suddenly got run over ? or fell into a river heavily drunk ? Edited February 25, 2015 by longgone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbug9999 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Well if I think about what is different now that I generally earn 100k+ vs what it was like when I earned 30k, I see two main differences, first is the lack of stress around unexpected expenses such as car needing work, second is not needing to "save up" for something which paradoxically has lead to me spending a lot less time and effort hankering after some gadget/guitar/whatever, its as if being able to buy whatever I want when I want (up to a point) has taken the excitement out of acquiring things for their own sake.I still drive crap old cars, wear mostly supermarket clothes, build my own PCs, am a bit of a sucker for an expensive phone for no particular reason I can think of but for the most part I probably don't actually spend much more money in inflation adjusted terms. Edited February 25, 2015 by goldbug9999 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Well if I think about what is different now that I generally earn 100k+ vs what it was like when I earned 30k, I see two main differences, first is the lack of stress around unexpected expenses such as car needing work, second is not needing to "save up" for something which paradoxically has lead to me spending a lot less time and effort hankering after some gadget/guitar/whatever, its as if being able to buy whatever I want when I want (up to a point) has taken the excitement out of acquiring things for their own sake.I still drive crap old cars, wear mostly supermarket clothes, build my own PCs, am a bit of a sucker for an expensive phone for no particular reason I can think of but for the most part I probably don't actually spend much more money in inflation adjusted terms. how did you go from 30k to 100k ? did the fact you earn 3 times as much make you happy putting money aside , than the actual things you can buy with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotnocrash Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Earning more money definitely reduces the stress levels which will clearly have an impact on overall happiness but diminishing returns do set in. When I started work in 1992 I earned 7k a year gross and it was a constant struggle make ends meet. we now bring in a net £9.5k a month and don't have any financial worries as the mortgage is small and no other debts. I would probably be just as happy in the short term with half as much, but that would delay the day that I can retire and so have a very detrimental effect on my longer term happiness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Well if I think about what is different now that I generally earn 100k+ vs what it was like when I earned 30k, I see two main differences, first is the lack of stress around unexpected expenses such as car needing work, second is not needing to "save up" for something which paradoxically has lead to me spending a lot less time and effort hankering after some gadget/guitar/whatever, its as if being able to buy whatever I want when I want (up to a point) has taken the excitement out of acquiring things for their own sake.I still drive crap old cars, wear mostly supermarket clothes, build my own PCs, am a bit of a sucker for an expensive phone for no particular reason I can think of but for the most part I probably don't actually spend much more money in inflation adjusted terms. Like you our income is off 'this scale' and comfortably more than what people popularly refer to as What the Prime Minister earns . To me it's surreal (in a peculiarly not nice way) that we don't have to save up for things and spend on a whim. Random things like the shotgun I bought for £2k when all I went in to the shop for was an approved gun cabinet. It's been locked away ever since (years) and that's just one example of many and our bank balances come out the other end stronger than before. Not stressing that I can lose £10,000 on one share (which I did last week) without batting an eyelid. Unlike you we have two flash cars on the drive but we're not trying to impress anyone and I feel numb with embarrassment trying to explain ourselves away to the have nots (friends usually) and surely must come across as a kind of champagne socialist. In short I'm struggling to be normal. To us (me) money is cheap and plentiful and has lost it's meaning so by that very definition how can money make us happy? how did you go from 30k to 100k ? did the fact you earn 3 times as much make you happy putting money aside , than the actual things you can buy with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Not stressing that I can lose £10,000 on one share (which I did last week) without batting an eyelid. sure you are on the right forum , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeryMeanReversion Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 For example, I am only divorced because I could afford it. I have mates who cannot afford divorce because they know they would be forced into a bedsit eating beans. They eat shit every day at home because of lack of money. Made me as I know exactly what you mean. I wonder if divorce will be included in next years CPI under the "luxury services" category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sPinwheel Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I thought divorces were expensive because they were worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicker Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Got married when mid 20s and it didn't last long. We were both at difficult times in our careers and skint. This lack of money coupled with job/work frustrations was terrible. As we had nothing and no kids a very easy divorce. Later started making some money and life was a lot better. Money a bit tight at mo and I can feel my stress levels rising. Btw former wife did alright for her self,her career progressed nicely. Maybe should have meet 10 years later....might have been a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erat_forte Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 not very convinced by the fit of that line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Money gives you space and not living in a shared house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) Money gives you space and not living in a shared house. There must be many lonely people that would see living in a shared house is something good not bad.......the best space for many is the space outside the house. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuemZFCmPNI Edited February 26, 2015 by winkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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