Moving Back To London. Can I Bargain Anything At All In Low-End, Cheap Properties?

[New_Paradigm]

Hi all,

I am a 33 y.o. guy who lived in London from 2004 to 2009, then moved back to Paris and now moving again to London in a couple of months with my company.

At the moment I don't own any property in London, but I have a mortgage in Paris. I bought in 2009 for 250,000 EUR (a 30 sq.m. (about 300 sq.ft. in UK dimensions) studio apartment) and now it is valued at 330,000. Even if prices has been tanking or slowing down, there was a major increase between 2008 to 2011 (counter cyclical to most of the world somehow; I guess in 2011-12 I could have sold it at 360.000 or more). Once I take my mortgage out, I will have about 60,000 EUR in equity + about 40,000 EUR I have in savings / stocks... about 100k EUR or 75k GBP. The apartment has been on sale for one month and some people seems to be interested (great location, orientation, details ).

So moving back in April, I am thinking to buy straight-away. All of my friends in London are now happy owners, and have hugely profited from the real estate boom even if they are only around my age. Had I bought in 2004, now I would be rich. I don't want to miss the train this time, and renting is like throwing money out of a drain! I don't wanna be a loser renting a flat.

Anyway. I have been following Zoopla a bit and I noticed that the market seems to be a tad quieter lately. I have seen some decrease in prices on higher-end properties.

My fav area is Kennington / Southwark / Clapham. Northern Line is perfect for me (and Victoria too is handy) and I have friends in the area. I love being by the Thames; right next to the city but a bit off the madness of the north side. And I have always believed that South London was bound to be the next big thing. Those huge developments in Battersea, the new US Embassy, Nine Elms and Vauxhall have confirmed my intuition. I also like Pimlico but that is too expensive for me unfortunately! I am not rich

I don't want Victorian (humidity, old windows, that crappy stuff), I don't want council estate mixed with low-income people (my Lord!). Of course I fancy new development (plenty of it at E&C) but that is too expensive unfortunately! I am "low-maintenance" and quite humble so I can get along with a 1-bed as far as it has a big dining-living. I live now in a 300 sqft but I want something bigger, at least friends/family can sleep in a sofa-bed in the living. I think I could stretch up to £400-450,000. The remaining £300,000 would be paid by my parents and I would refund it back to them with a personal loan (no interest). They sold one of their two flats in Paris last year (I have only one brother) so they have some euros and they don't want to invest in France with the current economic situation there, so they believe (and I do so) that London is a safer city... it is the capital of the world and the government is pro-investment (unlike in France with communist Hollande and whoever knows what might happen if that n_z_ of Le Pen wins! Nuts). Worst case scenario is that my flat studio in Paris takes longer than I expect to sell. I wouldn't want to rent it since socialist laws in France are completely pro-renter so if you rent it to somehow and he or she doesn't pay... good luck throwing him/her out of your OWN property. Whatever.

Since I am intending to buy an affordable, low-end of the market flat, how much can I expect to bargain (if anything) as today?

I can't see many flats that fit my requirements. For instance:

OK but it is a Ground Floor: http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/33319890

Lovely but a bit off my preferred area and again Ground/Lower Floor http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/35700626

Typical old English building that looks like a council estate. I would feel mentally poor living there. It needs a complete refurbishment: http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/34536637

Nice inside but ugly inside and too far from the river and the tube http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/35331505#kSTRy3SXkzFufJtd.97

What do think guys? I have been hearing that the market has been "cooling down" but I am scared that the prices will increase again (European QE, gold and stocks going down, Swiss buying property...). I have a couple of friends who bought in early 2014 (one in Clapham, one in Covent Garden) and they had to pay more than the asking price due to competition (my friend at Covent Garden ended up paying £100k more for a £1.1m 1-bed apartment - wow! -) but I think now things are better for buyers? For how long?

So I believe this is the perfect time. I am a bit frustrated though that 550,000 EUR (the price in euros) cannot really afford me almost a 1-bed in an area I fancy (and it is not Chelsea either!). But I guess that is the downturn of being working middle class and having to compete with many rich people to buy some square meters in one of the top cities in the world.

Any thoughts? Would I be able to bargain in such low prices? Has anyone had experience buying lately in those areas in London in that range of price? I am really excited about buying and being an owner in London

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Blimey. Your estate agency must have been empty all week.

[longgone]

Blimey. Your estate agency must have been empty all week.

i would not pay over 200k for any of that crap

if you do buy any of those , make sure you buy yourself and the agent one of these as a moving in prezzy

Edited January 24, 2015 by longgone

[New_Paradigm]

OK

Blimey. Your estate agency must have been empty all week.

I am sorry, but I don't own or work for an estate agency.

i would not pay over 200k for any of that crap

if you do buy any of those , make sure you buy yourself and the agent one of these as a moving in prezzy

I wish those apartments were 200,000 GBP. But they are twice the price (and that is what many people pay for them) and I can't see anything but prices going up in the near future. It is London zone 1-2 after all, and that area is being heavily redeveloped lately.

Btw, if you compare prices by square meter, Paris is not much cheaper (you will end up paying easily 7-8.000 EUR in bad areas inside Paris (zone 1), 10.000 EUR in OK areas, save the upscale areas that will be more expensive!). And qualified salaries in London are much higher and there are more qualified jobs available (more multinational companies, the City of London).

So yeah I am not arguing whether London is cheap or expensive... but other global cities are not much cheaper. I am sorry to disappoint you.

[longgone]

OK

I am sorry, but I don't own or work for an estate agency.

I wish those apartments were 200,000 GBP. But they are twice the price (and that is what many people pay for them) and I can't see anything but prices going up in the near future. It is London zone 1-2 after all, and that area is being heavily redeveloped lately.

Btw, if you compare prices by square meter, Paris is not much cheaper (you will end up paying easily 7-8.000 EUR in bad areas inside Paris (zone 1), 10.000 EUR in OK areas, save the upscale areas that will be more expensive!). And qualified salaries in London are much higher and there are more qualified jobs available (more multinational companies, the City of London).

So yeah I am not arguing whether London is cheap or expensive... but other global cities are not much cheaper. I am sorry to disappoint you.

go and buy one then , why bother asking

people are paying because they are stupid , they all follow each other

[New_Paradigm]

go and buy one then , why bother asking

people are paying because they are stupid , they all follow each other

I am buying one (that one of those, they just were samples of my geographic/price/size range). I am just wondering whether I can bargain a bit or not. I was reading this evening this forum and there are many catastrophic stories but on the other hand people still queue for a flat in Stratford (where I wouldn't live never in my life, Chav Ground Zero; it is a horrible area in London: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/202928-house-hunters-queue-overnight-for-chance-to-spend-l400k-on-a-one-bedroom-flat/).So dunno maybe this forum is full of screwed people who expect to get a brand new flat in Battersea Power Station for £100,000... so they live in Wonderland.

And you know I left London in 2009 and prices had peaked in 2007-08. So yeah back at that time everyone was predicted doom & gloom but you see what has happened in 2014. A new paradigm (hence my nickname). But then I understood that London played in another league. We live in a global era and London is the global center. Even in Paris you have that pattern to some extent; prices have risen much further than in "provinces" and now they are about 3-4 times more expensive than the national average (exactly like London VS the UK).

But back to my question, if I get a 5 percent price cut, that is £20,000. Not bad. I can get 3 or 4 holidays with it

I am just wondering if someone has recent experience... I will appreciate Just going to bed, I have a flu today. I am reading this tomorrow... looking forward for new helpful comments of happy recent buyers.

[longgone]

I am buying one (that one of those, they just were samples of my geographic/price/size range). I am just wondering whether I can bargain a bit or not. I was reading this evening this forum and there are many catastrophic stories but on the other hand people still queue for a flat in Stratford (where I wouldn't live never in my life, Chav Ground Zero; it is a horrible area in London: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/202928-house-hunters-queue-overnight-for-chance-to-spend-l400k-on-a-one-bedroom-flat/).So dunno maybe this forum is full of screwed people who expect to get a brand new flat in Battersea Power Station for £100,000... so they live in Wonderland.

And you know I left London in 2009 and prices had peaked in 2007-08. So yeah back at that time everyone was predicted doom & gloom but you see what has happened in 2014. A new paradigm (hence my nickname). But then I understood that London played in another league. We live in a global era and London is the global center. Even in Paris you have that pattern to some extent; prices have risen much further than in "provinces" and now they are about 3-4 times more expensive than the national average (exactly like London VS the UK).

But back to my question, if I get a 5 percent price cut, that is £20,000. Not bad. I can get 3 or 4 holidays with it

I am just wondering if someone has recent experience... I will appreciate Just going to bed, I have a flu today. I am reading this tomorrow... looking forward for new helpful comments of happy recent buyers.

lol

i could buy any of that crap you listed and put at least 50% down cash , but would rather leave it in the bank to wither away than pay some fecker couple 100k profit for nothing

foxtons or faron sutaria employee ?

happy baiting

Edited January 24, 2015 by longgone

[dances with sheeple]

Hi all,

I am a 33 y.o. guy who lived in London from 2004 to 2009, then moved back to Paris and now moving again to London in a couple of months with my company.

At the moment I don't own any property in London, but I have a mortgage in Paris. I bought in 2009 for 250,000 EUR (a 30 sq.m. (about 300 sq.ft. in UK dimensions) studio apartment) and now it is valued at 330,000. Even if prices has been tanking or slowing down, there was a major increase between 2008 to 2011 (counter cyclical to most of the world somehow; I guess in 2011-12 I could have sold it at 360.000 or more). Once I take my mortgage out, I will have about 60,000 EUR in equity + about 40,000 EUR I have in savings / stocks... about 100k EUR or 75k GBP. The apartment has been on sale for one month and some people seems to be interested (great location, orientation, details ).

So moving back in April, I am thinking to buy straight-away. All of my friends in London are now happy owners, and have hugely profited from the real estate boom even if they are only around my age. Had I bought in 2004, now I would be rich. I don't want to miss the train this time, and renting is like throwing money out of a drain! I don't wanna be a loser renting a flat.

Anyway. I have been following Zoopla a bit and I noticed that the market seems to be a tad quieter lately. I have seen some decrease in prices on higher-end properties.

My fav area is Kennington / Southwark / Clapham. Northern Line is perfect for me (and Victoria too is handy) and I have friends in the area. I love being by the Thames; right next to the city but a bit off the madness of the north side. And I have always believed that South London was bound to be the next big thing. Those huge developments in Battersea, the new US Embassy, Nine Elms and Vauxhall have confirmed my intuition. I also like Pimlico but that is too expensive for me unfortunately! I am not rich

I don't want Victorian (humidity, old windows, that crappy stuff), I don't want council estate mixed with low-income people (my Lord!). Of course I fancy new development (plenty of it at E&C) but that is too expensive unfortunately! I am "low-maintenance" and quite humble so I can get along with a 1-bed as far as it has a big dining-living. I live now in a 300 sqft but I want something bigger, at least friends/family can sleep in a sofa-bed in the living. I think I could stretch up to £400-450,000. The remaining £300,000 would be paid by my parents and I would refund it back to them with a personal loan (no interest). They sold one of their two flats in Paris last year (I have only one brother) so they have some euros and they don't want to invest in France with the current economic situation there, so they believe (and I do so) that London is a safer city... it is the capital of the world and the government is pro-investment (unlike in France with communist Hollande and whoever knows what might happen if that n_z_ of Le Pen wins! Nuts). Worst case scenario is that my flat studio in Paris takes longer than I expect to sell. I wouldn't want to rent it since socialist laws in France are completely pro-renter so if you rent it to somehow and he or she doesn't pay... good luck throwing him/her out of your OWN property. Whatever.

Since I am intending to buy an affordable, low-end of the market flat, how much can I expect to bargain (if anything) as today?

I can't see many flats that fit my requirements. For instance:

OK but it is a Ground Floor: http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/33319890

Lovely but a bit off my preferred area and again Ground/Lower Floor http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/35700626

Typical old English building that looks like a council estate. I would feel mentally poor living there. It needs a complete refurbishment: http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/34536637

Nice inside but ugly inside and too far from the river and the tube http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/35331505#kSTRy3SXkzFufJtd.97

What do think guys? I have been hearing that the market has been "cooling down" but I am scared that the prices will increase again (European QE, gold and stocks going down, Swiss buying property...). I have a couple of friends who bought in early 2014 (one in Clapham, one in Covent Garden) and they had to pay more than the asking price due to competition (my friend at Covent Garden ended up paying £100k more for a £1.1m 1-bed apartment - wow! -) but I think now things are better for buyers? For how long?

So I believe this is the perfect time. I am a bit frustrated though that 550,000 EUR (the price in euros) cannot really afford me almost a 1-bed in an area I fancy (and it is not Chelsea either!). But I guess that is the downturn of being working middle class and having to compete with many rich people to buy some square meters in one of the top cities in the world.

Any thoughts? Would I be able to bargain in such low prices? Has anyone had experience buying lately in those areas in London in that range of price? I am really excited about buying and being an owner in London

Don`t want to be a renting loser? Be a Big Bubble Mortgage loser instead, and get a BTL too, double bubble!

[dances with sheeple]

lol

i could buy any of that crap you listed and put at least 50% down cash , but would rather leave it in the bank to wither away than pay some fecker couple 100k profit for nothing

foxtons or faron sutaria employee ?

happy baiting

It won`t wither away in the bank in this deflationary environment, unless it is bailed away? You could keep it under your mattress and have a sniff at it every night and it would still hold it`s value

[Venger]

Hi all,

I am a 33 y.o. guy who lived in London from 2004 to 2009, then moved back to Paris and now moving again to London in a couple of months with my company.

At the moment I don't own any property in London, but I have a mortgage in Paris. I bought in 2009 for 250,000 EUR (a 30 sq.m. (about 300 sq.ft. in UK dimensions) studio apartment) and now it is valued at 330,000.

All of my friends in London are now happy owners, and have hugely profited from the real estate boom even if they are only around my age. Had I bought in 2004, now I would be rich. I don't want to miss the train this time, and renting is like throwing money out of a drain! I don't wanna be a loser renting a flat.

We make our own decisions.

There's enough hpcers on the forum who would class you and all your property-happy friends who bought in hpc that was stopped / never was, and those who bought in 2004 at prices that would now 'make you rich' as total victims who 'didn't know what they were doing' / 'media to blame for them now having loads of equity' and 'banks made them borrow'.

That was their position 2008-2010 and even into 2014 - advocating the losers renting flats as having to carry everything. They are the anti-capitalists. Make your own decisions in a free market; if it doesn't work out, the anti-capitalists will come up with excuses for you.

Here's one from 2014, for those who buying vs the dead money renters.

People have little choice. They are not as obsessed and knowledgable as people here.

[longgone]

It won`t wither away in the bank in this deflationary environment, unless it is bailed away? You could keep it under your mattress and have a sniff at it every night and it would still hold it`s value

let them bail it away , would rather that then over pay for any of those crack dens the poster is looking to buy

[long time lurking]

I am buying one (that one of those, they just were samples of my geographic/price/size range). I am just wondering whether I can bargain a bit or not. I was reading this evening this forum and there are many catastrophic stories but on the other hand people still queue for a flat in Stratford (where I wouldn't live never in my life, Chav Ground Zero; it is a horrible area in London: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/202928-house-hunters-queue-overnight-for-chance-to-spend-l400k-on-a-one-bedroom-flat/).So dunno maybe this forum is full of screwed people who expect to get a brand new flat in Battersea Power Station for £100,000... so they live in Wonderland.

And you know I left London in 2009 and prices had peaked in 2007-08. So yeah back at that time everyone was predicted doom & gloom but you see what has happened in 2014. A new paradigm (hence my nickname). But then I understood that London played in another league. We live in a global era and London is the global center. Even in Paris you have that pattern to some extent; prices have risen much further than in "provinces" and now they are about 3-4 times more expensive than the national average (exactly like London VS the UK).

But back to my question, if I get a 5 percent price cut, that is £20,000. Not bad. I can get 3 or 4 holidays with it

I am just wondering if someone has recent experience... I will appreciate Just going to bed, I have a flu today. I am reading this tomorrow... looking forward for new helpful comments of happy recent buyers.

Buy the flat looks good value and as a hedge just in case look no further than here they are on the up https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=FOXT.L#symbol=FOXT.L;range=2y

[New_Paradigm]

Don`t want to be a renting loser? Be a Big Bubble Mortgage loser instead, and get a BTL too, double bubble!

Yeah, I don't want to be a renter and be at a mercy of an owner. Specially in the UK it is tricky. In France, renters have more rights. Ownership is an ease of mind.

And if you had read my message, I just said I am not getting a mortgage. My parents will just help me with the cost I don't have. They have got some Euros a few months ago (roughly 7 numbers) and they don't want to invest it in property in France at the moment (very risky), bank deposits do not offer good interest and stock markets are a roller coaster lately with downward direction in general. London brick seems a safer investment and since anyway I gotta live there, it is a no-brainer.

[longgone]

Yeah, I don't want to be a renter and be at a mercy of an owner. Specially in the UK it is tricky. In France, renters have more rights. Ownership is an ease of mind.

And if you had read my message, I just said I am not getting a mortgage. My parents will just help me with the cost I don't have. They have got some Euros a few months ago (roughly 7 numbers) and they don't want to invest it in property in France at the moment (very risky), bank deposits do not offer good interest and stock markets are a roller coaster lately with downward direction in general. London brick seems a safer investment and since anyway I gotta live there, it is a no-brainer.

i can offer a good investment vehicle for your parents money 30% guaranteed returns pm me for details ,

they are going quick though so it is a first come first served basis

[Uncle_Kenny]

My advice to the OP is to get a job outside of London

[New_Paradigm]

We make our own decisions.

There's enough hpcers on the forum who would class you and all your property-happy friends who bought in hpc that was stopped / never was, and those who bought in 2004 at prices that would now 'make you rich' as total victims who 'didn't know what they were doing' / 'media to blame for them now having loads of equity' and 'banks made them borrow'.

That was their position 2008-2010 and even into 2014 - advocating the losers renting flats as having to carry everything. They are the anti-capitalists. Make your own decisions in a free market; if it doesn't work out, the anti-capitalists will come up with excuses for you.

Here's one from 2014, for those who buying vs the dead money renters.

Well u know what happened? I learnt after the crisis that cities like London, Paris, New York, Hong Kong... play in a league of their own (and London is likely leading all of them). Good jobs are becoming more and more concentrated in those cities. You cannot get many good jobs in Manchester or Lyon, and Chinese/Russian/Arabs want their flats in London/Paris and not in Leeds or Lille... so there we go... offer and demand. I can't see how that is gonna change any time soon.

In Paris I remember back in 2004 (when I moved to London) my parents bought their flat at 4.000 EUR/sqm and now it is valued at 8.500 EUR roughly. And even if prices have been roughly tanking since 2012 or so... (and even lowered in some areas, to be honest)... has there been a collapse? Not at all. If back in 2004 they would have told me that prices would duplicated, I would have thought that they were mad... and that coupled with record unemployment in France and stagnant salaries.

So yeah, I wouldn't lie. So even if I honestly feel that London can be a "flat" market for a while (like Paris has been for 2-3 years now), due to overpricing of some areas and less "emerging" people buying (oil prices down, Asia cooling down), I really can't see any reason why London prices would go down significantly. Should I wait 3 years for a 5% reduction? No. And maybe in 5 years prices are 20% up again because the BOE devaluated again the £ and who knows what other scheme they have invented.

[New_Paradigm]

My advice to the OP is to get a job outside of London

I can't... in fact I am moving to London because they are downgrading operations in Paris so I would otherwise be left without a job. Good jobs are concentrated in global cities.

[long time lurking]

Yeah, I don't want to be a renter and be at a mercy of an owner. Specially in the UK it is tricky. In France, renters have more rights. Ownership is an ease of mind.

And if you had read my message, I just said I am not getting a mortgage. My parents will just help me with the cost I don't have. They have got some Euros a few months ago (roughly 7 numbers) and they don't want to invest it in property in France at the moment (very risky), bank deposits do not offer good interest and stock markets are a roller coaster lately with downward direction in general. London brick seems a safer investment and since anyway I gotta live there, it is a no-brainer.

I have always admired a philanthropist and ones with timing like your family respect http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2924278/Bonanza-British-tourists-euro-set-hit-13-year-low.html

Edited January 24, 2015 by long time lurking

[New_Paradigm]

Buy the flat looks good value and as a hedge just in case look no further than here they are on the up https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=FOXT.L#symbol=FOXT.L;range=2y

LOL, I am not estate agent. I don't have good memories about estate agents when I used to live in London. Everytime you changed the person in the bail you gotta pay them 60 quids just for the new print. ********!

a good thing about buying is that you gotta deal with them only once

i can offer a good investment vehicle for your parents money 30% guaranteed returns pm me for details ,

they are going quick though so it is a first come first served basis

Sorry, I don't wanna enter in a ponzi scheme with someone in a forum. Good try.

I just wanna know experiences of people bargaining in affordable housing in London in the last months.

[New_Paradigm]

I have always admired a philanthropist and ones with timing like your family respect http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2924278/Bonanza-British-tourists-euro-set-hit-13-year-low.html

Well my parents changed a bit of money when they sold the flat; to USD and CHF. Had they known, they would have changed everything to CHF... LOL. Too bad not able to predict the future. But yeah, you are right it is still less advantegous.

Still all is relative. Before the financial crisis, 1 GBP was about 1.50 EUR. I remember that very well!.

[long time lurking]

LOL, I am not estate agent. I don't have good memories about estate agents when I used to live in London. Everytime you changed the person in the bail you gotta pay them 60 quids just for the new print. ********!

a good thing about buying is that you gotta deal with them only once

Never thought you were just saying their share price have been tracking the booming property market in London where all their business is

Edited January 24, 2015 by long time lurking

[longgone]

Sorry, I don't wanna enter in a ponzi scheme with someone in a forum. Good try.

I just wanna know experiences of people bargaining in affordable housing in London in the last months.

its not a ponzi scheme

you give 100% and you get 30% back

all above board

[New_Paradigm]

Never thought you were just saying their share price have been tracking the booming property market in London where all their business is

Ah OK gotcha.

I didn't even know Foxtons were only in London. To be honest, other than being to Scotland once (lovely!) I never being anywhere outside around London in England for the 5 years I lived there! I might change that now

I know it is not booming anymore hence I started this thread (can I bargain?). As I said, I don't expect to crash it either. And if it is flat for the next three years, I don't pay rent for that time (go figure, i.e. 1500-2000 x 12 x 3 = 54-72000 GBP!! I save) and it is for me to live. It is not just to speculate but to live too. Different story. So yeah, I don't mind. Of course I wouldn't buy a flat in London if I expect prices to go down 30 or 40% in the near future, but that is not gonna happen anyway.

[Dorkins]

Let us know when you complete on this £400k 1 bedroom flat in Clapham/Vauxhall.

[New_Paradigm]

Maybe it is not the right place here, but do you guys know any other forum more geared towards recent owners?

I might have made a mistake and here there are only resented renters waiting aimlessly for a London price crash that will not happen in their lifetime.

I hope I haven't disturbed you.