Young People 'feel They Have Nothing To Live For'

[campervanman]

Same financial source, probably

How. Do you mean children living with parents into middle age and spending increased disposable income on consumer goods?

[LiveinHope]

How. Do you mean children living with parents into middle age and spending increased disposable income on consumer goods?

No, I mean "spending money they don't have" on things they don't need, just like their parents who led the way. Que sera, sera.

Edited January 4, 2014 by LiveinHope

[Billy soy]

Can someone answer me this one question, why do the young adults of today just take it??

Why are they not protesting and rioting and shouting and screaming, God only knows they have a just cause.

I thought when the student riots kicked off a few years ago that at last they would fight for some kind of fairness, but it fizzled out.

Because they just do not know WTF is going on, to truly connect the dots of high house prices, banks, politics and policies, vote buying and wealth transfer from young to old, business interests and immigration, class warfare and rentierism etc they would have to come here, which looks not to be the case.

[winkie]

This is so depressing, but who do we vote for to correct it? The only party with a (comparatively) decent manifesto for science, education and evidence based policy last time around were the Lib Dems, and that clearly went nowhere fast.

The sad thing is that it's not just individually world leading R&D that is closing it's sites now, but that at the start of the 70s we as a country were world leaders in our total amount of R&D. This has been dismantled just as much as industrial production has, and with just as dire consequences.

Know very little about r&d but what I do understand about it is that it is very high cost and time consuming... Like anything the big pharmaceutical cos want to make as big as profits as they can so go to the places with the most cost effective price, after all it will be the NHS amongst others who will be having to pay the ultimate price, can they afford to? Will they want the new product that may only make a tiny insignificant improvement with a high price unrelated to that benefit.......anyway, is it always a good thing to keep some people functioning on drugs? Does it benefit them? Does it benefit society?does it benefit drug companies?......big questions?

[LiveinHope]

Know very little about r&d but what I do understand about it is that it is very high cost and time consuming... Like anything the big pharmaceutical cos want to make as big as profits as they can so go to the places with the most cost effective price, after all it will be the NHS amongst others who will be having to pay the ultimate price, can they afford to? Will they want the new product that may only make a tiny insignificant improvement with a high price unrelated to that benefit.......anyway, is it always a good thing to keep some people functioning on drugs? Does it benefit them? Does it benefit society?does it benefit drug companies?......big questions?

If they were based in the UK and paid taxes and wages in the UK, there should be more money to support public sector 'blue skies" research, making the UK the "place to be", bringing inward investment etc.

[winkie]

If they were based in the UK and paid taxes and wages in the UK, there should be more money to support public sector 'blue skies" research, making the UK the "place to be", bringing inward investment etc.

...what like the financial services sector?

[LiveinHope]

...what like the financial services sector?

As I was typing the post I was thinking of all the companies that offshore or r4pe the system, and anticipating a reply like I got

Like anything, it requires a Government that works for the long-term interests of the UK by creating the right conditions.

Edited January 4, 2014 by LiveinHope

[Billy soy]

And with less people in the country why would you need to build more housing in greenbelt areas? I am not convinced about the need for mass building NOW let alone if we came out of the EZ contracts. UKIP have tories running scared, that is enough of a reason to vote for them IMO. I voted SNP before devolution because they were rocking the boat, I have not voted since and am not a particular fan of the SNP now that they have quite a bit of power, but THEN it was the right call to upset the Westminster stranglehold. Farage is an ex-broker and a bit of a toff, so what, he doesn`t try to be anything other than what he is, the important thing is that his views ring a bell with a LOT of people in Britain today.

Unless ukip actually win (unlikely) and then force the repatriation of the several millions of eastern europeans from the south east (impossible) then in the south east we will still need mass housebuilding.

The population has grown, we now have the wilsons turning away social tenants on housing benefit as they have a surplus of tenants that can be hit with above inflation rises, from eastern europe.

Mass building isnt the sole answer, im sure without higher IR's the wilsons and their kind would just snap them up too, hopefully any party wise enough and strong enough to take on the nimbys (not ukip) will put some regulation in to stop these btl parasites from getting in first.

[winkie]

As I was typing the post I was thinking of all the companies that offshore or r4pe the system, and anticipating a reply like I got

Like anything, it requires a Government that works for the long-term interests of the UK by creating the right conditions.

There is no such thing as a long-term government...the same as there is no such thing as a long-term corporate.....short-term growth and profit is the name of the game....'nothing to live for' none of us know what tomorrow will bring however much we try and plan for it someone or something will always come along to change it.

[LiveinHope]

There is no such thing as a long-term government...the same as there is no such thing as a long-term corporate.....short-term growth and profit is the name of the game....'nothing to live for' none of us know what tomorrow will bring however much we try and plan for it someone or something will always come along to change it.

I'm not thinking geological time scales, just a happy medium

[Guest]

The young are feckless and really only have themselves to blame because I don't see any of them standing up for themselves or being politically active, no indeed all they seem to want is use my taxes to pay their deposit (HTB) so if any of them fancy my job they can f*** right off and get their own, I'll be staying here till they prize my cold dead hands off the keyboard.

I find this idea that keeps coming up - that the young are to blame for their disenfranchisement because they aren't rioting in the streets - rather ridiculous.

Guess what, they tried that. The Occupy camp at St Paul's was completely and utterly shredded by the media - on one hand berated for being a bunch of smelly drop-outs and professional protestors unrepresentative of wider society, on the other hand mocked for not being enough of a bunch of smelly drop-outs. How dare someone protesting capitalism buy coffee! Go back home to mummy, and stop blocking St Paul's, us debt-slaves have to get to work.

Then when we get less civil outbursts, like the protests or the riots, the police and the justice system cracks down mercilessly. Look at kettling, the extraordinary sentences handed down to rioters, or the treatment of the Fortnum & Mason's protestors. It's not like the 70s anymore, when it seems to me like a bit of trouble in your youth could be forgotten and your conviction spent. Now everything is on the database forever, easily searchable. A conviction or even an arrest mucks up middle class ambitions pretty sharpish, what with CRB checks and visa requirements.

I'm not sure I can count myself as 'young' any more, but I've spent my working life waiting for the bubble to correct. I've voted in every election, even if only to spoil my ballot paper. I've written to my MP and got the canned party line in response. I've posted comments on hundreds of newspaper articles. I've tried to persuade my friends and family. I'm not sure how much more politically active I can be within the bounds of civil society.

I do agree that anyone taking advantage of HTB is part of the problem.

No, the powers that be have the whole thing pretty well sewn up and any alternative to our three-flavours-of-neoliberal is quickly shouted down.

[winkie]

I'm not thinking geological time scales, just a happy medium

What about 25 years....the term of an old style mortgage, about half a studying/working life time.

[LiveinHope]

What about 25 years....the term of an old style mortgage, about half a studying/working life time.

Plan for 50, get 25

[LiveinHope]

I find this idea that keeps coming up - that the young are to blame for their disenfranchisement because they aren't rioting in the streets - rather ridiculous.

Snip - (agree)

No, the powers that be have the whole thing pretty well sewn up and any alternative to our three-flavours-of-neoliberal is quickly shouted down.

The powers that be have managed to brainwash the public to shout down any counter argument on subjects where the powers have a vested interest. Perfect societal engineering.

[Errol]

For anyone who has played Grand Theft Auto V : this game sums up the zeitgeist of the younger generation perfectly.

[LiveinHope]

For anyone who has played Grand Theft Auto V : this game sums up the zeitgeist of the younger generation perfectly.

Since I've never played a video game in my life (except for pacman on a Mac in the early 90s), can you explain, briefly ?

[FallingAwake]

Best thing we can do for young people is:

Help them to draw their own conclusions.

If they actually realized that high house prices are NOT in their interest, they're much more likely to become active and vocal about it.

On the other hand, you can't just TELL them, "House prices are too high", especially if they've been heavily influenced by parents and the media that it's a good thing.

Let them deduce this for themselves. Perhaps through questions that get them to think through the current situation, i.e.

You: "Why are government offering this Help To Buy scheme? Is it because banks weren't accepting mortgages without a large deposit? And why do you think that was?" [etc]

Or through little memorable soundbites that will stick with them, i.e. I love using the phrase "with interest rates at an 'emergency' 300 year low", or some such stuff.

Little phrases like that might at least help them to think about what might happen if interest rates were to return to normal, both in their own circumstances, and to house prices as a whole.

In short, help them to THINK FOR THEMSELVES

[Errol]

Since I've never played a video game in my life (except for pacman on a Mac in the early 90s), can you explain, briefly ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_V

[Big Orange]

Britain plus swathes of mainland Europe and North America have entered a lost mult-decade slump.

[LiveinHope]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_V

Looked at the link and I can't comprehend what GTAV is 'like'. I guess you have to have played video games as they evolved in order to understand the 'environment' and what they 'give'.

So almost none the wiser.

I say almost, as the only thing I think I get is that you are an 'observer' in the game rather than a character.

if that's the case, then I can understand as I feel like I am observing the UK, as I try to minimise my involvement, currently - which can involve manipulating 'players' so that they don't affect me.

Edited January 4, 2014 by LiveinHope

[dances with sheeple]

Unless ukip actually win (unlikely) and then force the repatriation of the several millions of eastern europeans from the south east (impossible) then in the south east we will still need mass housebuilding.

The population has grown, we now have the wilsons turning away social tenants on housing benefit as they have a surplus of tenants that can be hit with above inflation rises, from eastern europe.

Mass building isnt the sole answer, im sure without higher IR's the wilsons and their kind would just snap them up too, hopefully any party wise enough and strong enough to take on the nimbys (not ukip) will put some regulation in to stop these btl parasites from getting in first.

Don`t get that? If they are here now they must be living somewhere? The Wilsons have probably been told by the bank to trim their portfolio of houses before rates go up, watch out for some hitting the market soon IMO. I seriously doubt that they have working people paying the HB levels they were getting, more likely that as their demise looms they are lashing out at the government by creating headlines that say "Look what you have made us do to these poor people!" All the Wilsons acquisitions were bought with debt and leverage, doesn`t work so well in a falling market. As for UKIP, no one expects them to win a GE, their role is to get a referendum on the EZ firmly on to the political agenda.

The Wilsons remind me of the "character" in Castaway, as he floats away out of reach. It is a new dawn, the era of people like the Wilsons is over.

[dances with sheeple]

I find this idea that keeps coming up - that the young are to blame for their disenfranchisement because they aren't rioting in the streets - rather ridiculous.

Guess what, they tried that. The Occupy camp at St Paul's was completely and utterly shredded by the media - on one hand berated for being a bunch of smelly drop-outs and professional protestors unrepresentative of wider society, on the other hand mocked for not being enough of a bunch of smelly drop-outs. How dare someone protesting capitalism buy coffee! Go back home to mummy, and stop blocking St Paul's, us debt-slaves have to get to work.

Then when we get less civil outbursts, like the protests or the riots, the police and the justice system cracks down mercilessly. Look at kettling, the extraordinary sentences handed down to rioters, or the treatment of the Fortnum & Mason's protestors. It's not like the 70s anymore, when it seems to me like a bit of trouble in your youth could be forgotten and your conviction spent. Now everything is on the database forever, easily searchable. A conviction or even an arrest mucks up middle class ambitions pretty sharpish, what with CRB checks and visa requirements.

I'm not sure I can count myself as 'young' any more, but I've spent my working life waiting for the bubble to correct. I've voted in every election, even if only to spoil my ballot paper. I've written to my MP and got the canned party line in response. I've posted comments on hundreds of newspaper articles. I've tried to persuade my friends and family. I'm not sure how much more politically active I can be within the bounds of civil society.

I do agree that anyone taking advantage of HTB is part of the problem.

No, the powers that be have the whole thing pretty well sewn up and any alternative to our three-flavours-of-neoliberal is quickly shouted down.

You don`t have to even go on the streets now, the system is vulnerable, it relies on BORROWING and CONSUMPTION. If the young refuse to participate in these activities on a large scale the monster is cut off at the ankles, you don`t even have to leave your bedroom, just cut up the credit card!

Edited January 4, 2014 by dances with sheeple

[LiveinHope]

You don`t have to even go on the streets now, the system is vulnerable, it relies on BORROWING and CONSUMPTION. If the young refuse to participate in these activities on a large scale the monster is cut off at the ankles, you don`t even have to leave your bedroom, just cut up the credit card!

but who will be the first.

As an analogy, when farmers protest insufficient pay from the supermarkets I often think that it only takes a short period of 'brothers in arms action' such as not selling any produce, in order to rebalance the power - the trouble is getting all your mates to hold ranks. The UK public is not good at supporting their fellow man.

For example, what if everyone simultaneously stopped paying their mortgage or rent- what would the banks do ? repossess everyone ? What would the courts do, imprison everyone ?

Occasionally, you get a principled stalwort, but usually everyone watches them crash in flames, while agreeing with the position they took.

Edited January 4, 2014 by LiveinHope

[Neverwhere]

In contrast, the House of Lords is quite good at supporting and safeguarding science - the legislation has to get to them though.

Scientific literacy appears to have plummeted. Scientists are probably to blame in "just getting on with the work" and not lobbying - when lobbying is crucial when faced with the imbalance in Parliament. While there is POST (Parliamentary Office for Science and Technology} this is more "dissemination of knowledge" than a lobbying tool for the science sector.

The arts have been very good at lobbying, however.

30 years ago the 'Arts' were in the doldrums, now city councils will stick a block of concrete in a town square and call it culture - Tongue in cheek and with apologies to the 'Arts'

But, as a result, we now have an annual competition for the "City of Culture"

Where is the sister competition for the "City of Science" - arguably as important to society, culturally.

Go onto any general UK-based internet news article about science and the comments rapidly degenerate to science bashing. The UK is a strange place.

Couldn't agree more.

Anecdotally from both personal interactions and general exposure to the media there appears to be a cultural trend at the moment which pushes us as a culture away science and explains the kind of science bashing that you mentioned: the cultural primacy of "personal truth". Increasingly it seems that people believe that something can be "true for them" and that their opinion is just as worthwhile, if not more so, than any evidence to the contrary. This is not helped by a media that is largely scientifically-illiterate and believes that giving equal weight to two opposing arguments, regardless of the proportion of evidence supporting each, demonstrates a lack of bias when in fact it does the exact opposite; not to mention Google's personalised searches which cherrypick sites to the top of the results that are most similar to other sites the searcher has previously visited thereby creating a confirmation bias based on the searcher's original opinions i.e. holocaust deniers get a disproportionate number of holocaust denial sites at the top of their results for the word "holocaust", just as climate change deniers who search for "climate change" get a disproportionate number of climate change denial sites at the top of their results ("don't be evil" my ****).

I know several people who don't "believe in quantum physics" despite all owning mobile phones, computers, etc.

I know someone who doesn't "believe in fossils". God only knows what they thinks they put in their car to make it go.

Clearly we have reached Clarke's Third Law:

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic

[dances with sheeple]

but who will be the first.

As an analogy, when farmers protest insufficient pay from the supermarkets I often think that it only takes a short period of 'brothers in arms action' such as not selling any produce, in order to rebalance the power - the trouble is getting all your mates to hold ranks. The UK public is not good at supporting their fellow man.

For example, what if everyone simultaneously stopped paying their mortgage or rent- what would the banks do ? repossess everyone ? What would the courts do, imprison everyone ?

Occasionally, you get a principled stalwort, but usually everyone watches them crash in flames, while agreeing with the position they took.

Well it is already happening, whether by necessity or design doesn`t really matter for the final outcome, this crop of young people are not behaving/able to behave around property as the generation who fed on credit during 2001 - 2007 did? Many have probably not made proper mortgage payments for a long time, many are on the "never never" account with their council tax, but councils and banks won`t broadcast these things?

The system is eating itself from within, you just have to position yourself for the final collapse.

Edited January 4, 2014 by dances with sheeple