RodCrosby Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Just now, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: So it's not possible to be UK domicile and have your wealth offshore? Or if you do have your wealth offshore you just cannot access it in the UK? Under the rules of UK domicile your worldwide wealth is taxable to IHT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 I think taxes and taxation are intentionally obfuscated to fool the little man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unmoderated Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 minute ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: So it's not possible to be UK domicile and have your wealth offshore? Or if you do have your wealth offshore you just cannot access it in the UK? I'm (as exhibited already) not a tax expert, but that's my understanding. If you have a company in Luxembourg and it makes £10m a year but you live in the UK then there's no charge on those profits by UK authorities UNLESS you remit them or take them as earnings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Just now, RodCrosby said: Under the rules of UK domicile your worldwide wealth is taxable to IHT. What rate is IHT? Do you have an example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodCrosby Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Just now, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: I think taxes and taxation are intentionally obfuscated to fool the little man. Ah, but as a judge once said: "the tax law needs loopholes through which it can breath...." Find the loopholes ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unmoderated Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Just now, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: What rate is IHT? Do you have an example? 40%. If you don't like that then there are alternative countries available. You'll still be allowed to visit for limited periods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unmoderated Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Just now, RodCrosby said: Ah, but as a judge once said: "the tax law needs loopholes through which it can breath...." Find the loopholes ! Tax law is a spiders web in which the little flies are caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodCrosby Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: What rate is IHT? Do you have an example? 40% on everything over £325k (certain recent exceptions made for main residences bequeathed to direct descendants) Spouses exempt from all IHT on death of partner. Edited January 7, 2021 by RodCrosby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unmoderated Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 8 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: I think taxes and taxation are intentionally obfuscated to fool the little man. What normally happens is PwC sends someone to HMRC on secondment for a bit. That person becomes an expert in a particular field and will push to get a change in statute somewhere) then go back to PwC and be the go to expert in that area of tax. In short it's a way of tax accountants ensuring they stay employed but there's rapidly a point where software could pick up an awful lot of this since tax is generally rules based (accounting is generally principles based). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodCrosby Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Unmoderated said: 40%. If you don't like that then there are alternative countries available. You'll still be allowed to visit for limited periods Domicile is extraordinarily difficult to shake-off, and very easy to inadvertently regain. And Scotland is a different domicile to England&Wales, because it is a different jurisdiction. Edited January 7, 2021 by RodCrosby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, Unmoderated said: 40%. If you don't like that then there are alternative countries available. You'll still be allowed to visit for limited periods May as well pay CGT at 20%. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, Unmoderated said: What normally happens is PwC sends someone to HMRC on secondment for a bit. That person becomes an expert in a particular field and will push to get a change in statute somewhere) then go back to PwC and be the go to expert in that area of tax. In short it's a way of tax accountants ensuring they stay employed but there's rapidly a point where software could pick up an awful lot of this since tax is generally rules based (accounting is generally principles based). Doesn't surprise me. Scumbags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodCrosby Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Just now, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: May as well pay CGT at 20%. 😂 You could pay both !! CGT is effectively cancelled on death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greater Fool Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 16 minutes ago, longgone said: https://www.ft.com/content/af686b47-dbb8-426c-b530-27898891bd16 More than 2,000 wallets contain over 1,000 bitcoin in them. What would happen to the price if just one of those tried to unload their coins on to the market at once? It wouldn’t be pretty, we would wager. What we call the “bitcoin price” is in fact only the price of the very small number of bitcoins that wash around the retail market, and I just read the top 2% of accounts hold 95% of the Bitcoins. In other worlds all the 2% have to do is sit back and drip feed into the market and watch those clever investors bid each other up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 24 minutes ago, longgone said: https://www.ft.com/content/af686b47-dbb8-426c-b530-27898891bd16 More than 2,000 wallets contain over 1,000 bitcoin in them. What would happen to the price if just one of those tried to unload their coins on to the market at once? It wouldn’t be pretty, we would wager. What we call the “bitcoin price” is in fact only the price of the very small number of bitcoins that wash around the retail market, and doesn’t represent the price that 18.6m bitcoins would actually be worth, even if they were all actually available. So the “market cap” is in this way nonsense multiplied. You times two things together that don’t reflect what they claim to — the “circulating supply” and the “price” — and voilà! 900 freshly minted Bitcoin are mined each day. So someone dumping 1000 is not that much - it takes us back to 1 days mining from the previous halvening. How many do you think companies like PayPal, and MicroStrategy are buying? Hundreds of thousands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomed Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 After getting reamed by the taxman in 2017 for crypto gains I have made sure it will not happen again. All my BTC is held in SIPP. That avenue unfortunately has now been closed due to the governments desire to protect people, luckily I wasn't forced to sell as would have cost me £200k+ . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unmoderated Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 22 minutes ago, RodCrosby said: Domicile is extraordinarily difficult to shake-off, and very easy to inadvertently regain. And Scotland is a different domicile to England&Wales, because it is a different jurisdiction. Yes, there's cases of people becoming resident on other countries but failing the domicile test by HMRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unmoderated Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 21 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: May as well pay CGT at 20%. 😂 Might as well go all the way and pay nowt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unmoderated Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 12 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: 900 freshly minted Bitcoin are mined each day. So someone dumping 1000 is not that much - it takes us back to 1 days mining from the previous halvening. How many do you think companies like PayPal, and MicroStrategy are buying? Hundreds of thousands. Not each day. Trading volumes are really quite thing and the view is generally there's enough market control by a defacto cartel to keep stoking up the price. If you're sitting on 100k coins and you sell off one a week you're absolutely winning. The test comes when/if the value goes so high that people start offloading more and more and then the price starts going the other way. then the amateurs with a coin or two will likely try and realise those gains and given how liquid the market is you can see what would happy. Sharp climb - sharp fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodCrosby Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Just now, Unmoderated said: Yes, there's cases of people becoming resident on other countries but failing the domicile test by HMRC. Some amusing cases, like the woman who sold all her possessions with the intention of retiring to France. She died on the boat, and was held to have died domiciled in England&Wales. Or the guy who lived in New York for 50 years. He then retired to California and died. He was held to have died domiciled in England&Wales... Or the Ramsay case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unmoderated Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 13 minutes ago, doomed said: After getting reamed by the taxman in 2017 for crypto gains I have made sure it will not happen again. All my BTC is held in SIPP. That avenue unfortunately has now been closed due to the governments desire to protect people, luckily I wasn't forced to sell as would have cost me £200k+ . Nice - but CGT for doing nothing isn't really that hard a pill to swallow? Imagine earning £125K and that last £25K getting taxed at over 60% and that's for getting up and going to work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodCrosby Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) As Lord Clyde said: "no man in this country is under the slightest obligation, moral or otherwise, to arrange his affairs so as to permit the Inland Revenue to place their largest shovel into his stores...." Why pay tax, if you can legally avoid it? Edited January 7, 2021 by RodCrosby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomed Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Unmoderated said: Nice - but CGT for doing nothing isn't really that hard a pill to swallow? Imagine earning £125K and that last £25K getting taxed at over 60% and that's for getting up and going to work! It's never nice sending off a 6 figure payment to HMRC for them to piss up the walls, but yeah could be worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, Unmoderated said: Nice - but CGT for doing nothing isn't really that hard a pill to swallow? Imagine earning £125K and that last £25K getting taxed at over 60% and that's for getting up and going to work! Someone investing their own capital, that has already been taxed, deserves each and every penny of realised gain. Not the taxman so he can pay out more bennies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unmoderated Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, doomed said: It's never nice sending off a 6 figure payment to HMRC for them to piss up the walls, but yeah could be worse. yeah - but as I've got older I feel that tax isn't actually that bad - it's more how we are taxed. I know CGT is a salient tax but imho it's a better tax than income tax (certainly the nonsense structure we have right now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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