Universal Credit New Thread.complete Disaster.

[sombreroloco]

+1

The money is being transferred to the bank accounts of the major IT suppliers.

https://www.whatdoth...he_universal_cr

Glad to know there is still a handful of non-smallminded-DM-brainwashed individuals left here on HPC.

[The Knimbies who say No]

"Universal Credit is modern welfare that rewards people who move into work, supports those who've fallen on hard times and is fair to taxpayers," said Lord Freud.

"We introduced Universal Credit in a slow, safe and controlled way in Manchester and this careful approach is working well. Most people are claiming it online, the IT is working and comprehensive support is in place. We will build on these successes as Universal Credit rolls out across the country."

I just had to add that quote from Lord Freud when questioned today. "THE IT IS WORKING",

The IT is working? Has he gone bonkers?.None of the IT is working unless he means the online claim form anyone could write.

Where are the press here?.The IT is not working because the IT doesn't exist.None,zilch,zero,nothing.

How can he say the IT is working when no earnings data has passed from HMRC to DWP?.

Incredible.

Just bumping this post as it is quite relevant to hotairmail's CW link today showing that the DWP are considering how best to proceed from a position of having spent a lot of money on a system which is not characterised accurately by Baron Freud's recent comments. Seems unlikely that the DWP started talking about scrapping/salvaging the IT in the last week which has interesting implications for Freud.

You heard it here first, sterling work from durhamborn. Good to see Computer Weekly showing up the national press and taking an interest. Well done them.

Edited November 5, 2013 by The B.L.T.

[Damik]

Just bumping this post as it is quite relevant to hotairmail's CW link today showing that the DWP are considering how best to proceed from a position of having spent a lot of money on a system which is not characterised accurately by Baron Freud's recent comments. Seems unlikely that the DWP started talking about scrapping/salvaging the IT in the last week which has interesting implications for Freud.

It is amazing. G8 country. Birthplace of Mr. Turing. Involved in the space program. Building stuff like fighter jets.

And they can not connect 2 government departments ...

Perhaps they need to suck all the senior civil servants as clearly they are not qualified for their jobs

why it reminds me "Yes, Prime Minister" ???

Edited November 5, 2013 by Damik

[durhamborn]

It is amazing. G8 country. Birthplace of Mr. Turing. Involved in the space program. Building stuff like fighter jets.

And they can not connect 2 government departments ...

Perhaps they need to suck all the senior civil servants as clearly they are not qualified for their jobs

why it reminds me "Yes, Prime Minister" ???

What happened is HMRC put IT teams onto working on an interface for Universal Credit live data.They kept asking DWP what they wanted.DWP didn't really know.

HMRC then stopped all work on a UC interface.

DWP carried on its work on the calculator,online claim form etc.Then they saw there was no way to get live data from HMRC to DWP.

They then thought they could do it manual until an interface could be built.However they then saw that over 7 million claims involved more than 1 adult.

So for UC theyd need both sets of monthly earnings to work out the payment.So that makes the manual side not possible without the IT as they cant pull the data together.Not without say 1000 workers per jobcentre.

That is why they decided to only let single unemployed on (1000 so far),because once they got work they could be done manual.Plus most float straight off UC on getting a job.

UC is no closer to coming in for families across the board than it was the first day it was mentioned.

UC was a disaster from the start.It isn't even reform,it pays the same or more than present benefits.

UC will not happen,100% certain of that.

The autumn statement in December will contain reforms to other benefits,showing the treasury know UC is dead in the water.

[Damik]

What happened is HMRC put IT teams onto working on an interface for Universal Credit live data.They kept asking DWP what they wanted.DWP didn't really know.

HMRC then stopped all work on a UC interface.

DWP carried on its work on the calculator,online claim form etc.Then they saw there was no way to get live data from HMRC to DWP.

They then thought they could do it manual until an interface could be built.However they then saw that over 7 million claims involved more than 1 adult.

So for UC theyd need both sets of monthly earnings to work out the payment.So that makes the manual side not possible without the IT as they cant pull the data together.Not without say 1000 workers per jobcentre.

That is why they decided to only let single unemployed on (1000 so far),because once they got work they could be done manual.Plus most float straight off UC on getting a job.

UC is no closer to coming in for families across the board than it was the first day it was mentioned.

UC was a disaster from the start.It isn't even reform,it pays the same or more than present benefits.

UC will not happen,100% certain of that.

The autumn statement in December will contain reforms to other benefits,showing the treasury know UC is dead in the water.

I do not think the UC is the cause of the problem as such. Any reasonable benefit policy (Labour or Tories) would need DWP and HMRC data together. Especially with the working tax credits.

It is a shame they wasted £300 millions to find out that government is not able to run IT projects.

But realistically DWP and HMRC systems have to be integrated. The current situation is a joke of UK public services. I can not imagine the level of fraud if you can not match both DWP and HMRC data ..

Perhaps they fire a few senior civil servants and get somebody, who is fit for the job ...

[durhamborn]

Not to worry though,,the DWP handed out 580,000 sanctions in the last 12 months to people on JSA/ESA,,up around 6% on last year ,

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/jobseekers-allowance-and-employment-and-support-allowance-sanctions-decisions-made-to-june-2013

30% for not looking hard enough for work.(the advisor doesn't like you).

So as the DWP stopped the income of people who mainly get £72 a week or £56.80 under 25 rate they continue to hand out tax credits and HB as fast as possible.

One day we might get a minister at the DWP who decides to cut the welfare bill and reform it where it matters,not get cheap headlines and cause untold misery where it doesn't.

The sanctions handed down are worth in money terms around 3% of the tax credit bill.

[GinAndPlatonic]

Not to worry though,,the DWP handed out 580,000 sanctions in the last 12 months to people on JSA/ESA,,up around 6% on last year ,

30% for not looking hard enough for work.(the advisor doesn't like you).

So as the DWP stopped the income of people who mainly get £72 a week or £56.80 under 25 rate they continue to hand out tax credits and HB as fast as possible.

How to alienate a whole generation in one easy lesson.

[winkie]

.....but this waste is seen in other departments, what about the NHS computers and the BBC computers.....still waste keeps creating new jobs to do....left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.......

[durhamborn]

.....but this waste is seen in other departments, what about the NHS computers and the BBC computers.....still waste keeps creating new jobs to do....left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.......

Not to worry,the only part of UC that has been rolled out across the country (or is being) is the new conditionality regime.

Its incredible to think that the jobcentre sanction more people than they help into work.

The Jobcentre provides no support now,and has no interest in helping people,,it exists simply to sanction.

Of course the system needs some sort of sanction regime,but it needs to focus on where the money goes,not on the smallest part of the budget.

It is also all mainly for show.Go self employed and get tax credits,never hear from the job centre again,even if you make nothing from your self employment.Sign on have your money stopped for ridiculous reasons.

[winkie]

Not to worry,the only part of UC that has been rolled out across the country (or is being) is the new conditionality regime.

Its incredible to think that the jobcentre sanction more people than they help into work.

The Jobcentre provides no support now,and has no interest in helping people,,it exists simply to sanction.

Of course the system needs some sort of sanction regime,but it needs to focus on where the money goes,not on the smallest part of the budget.

It is also all mainly for show.Go self employed and get tax credits,never hear from the job centre again,even if you make nothing from your self employment.Sign on have your money stopped for ridiculous reasons.

Have to agree with you.....that is the feedback I am also getting......it is all about targets, people the real help and support they require are a secondary factor.....no wonder employers often ignore the hundreds of CVs they must get bombarded with, it is a numbers game.

[SuperChimp]

Not to worry though,,the DWP handed out 580,000 sanctions in the last 12 months to people on JSA/ESA,,up around 6% on last year

When people are sanctioned in this way they are not classed as being on benefit. That is why the government has been able to claim that there has been such a significant fall in the unemployment rate with people rolling on and off benefits.

[tinker]

When people are sanctioned in this way they are not classed as being on benefit. That is why the government has been able to claim that there has been such a significant fall in the unemployment rate with people rolling on and off benefits.

This is an interesting dimension to it. It's all lies chasing a headline. I expect a lot more fiddling as the election approaches.

Shortly on BBC another sciver bashing programme - Britain on the Fiddle - sadly not focusing on the biggest crooks in the UK.

[@contradevian]

How the jobcentre Nazi's sanctioned someone who was trying to get a care qualification.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24829866?ocid=socialflow_facebook_bbcnews

After a year out of work he started a basic social care course in Bristol but had to leave half way through after his JSA was withdrawn.

I've never understood the mentality of that given virtually any job now requires a piece of paper.

[tinker]

New report

Universal Credit: early progress

The Department accepts that timescales have slipped and that value has not been secured from the £425 million invested so far. There has been a shocking absence of financial and other internal controls and we are not yet convinced that the Department has robust plans to overcome the problems that have impeded progress.

it proposes actions to remedy things. Politicians forever pissing our money up the wall chasing ideologies.

[durhamborn]

New report

Universal Credit: early progress

it proposes actions to remedy things. Politicians forever pissing our money up the wall chasing ideologies.

That's about as damning a report as it could of been,,il pick out the main bits,

However, the scope of Pathfinder is much narrower than originally planned, it covers only the simplest new claims, includes very limited IT functionality and cannot be scaled up to deal with the number and complexity of claimants Universal Credit will ultimately need to accommodate

Pathfinder is restricted to single people, who are unemployed, who have no children and who would otherwise be claiming Job Seeker's Allowance. It can only handle changes in claimants' circumstances manually rather than through the IT systems it is using. It cannot handle the claimant conditionality imperatives the Government wants. Yet when in a steady state Universal Credit is expected to deal with 10 million people in about 7.5 million households, making 1.6 million changes in circumstances each month.[36

The Department remains uncertain about key details of its final plans. It does not know how much can be delivered online, when this will be available, and what activities will continue to require face-to-face meetings.[28] The Department also does not know what the final cost of the IT will be, or the savings the programme is expected to deliver.[29] Nor does it know when it will close down the other benefits that Universal Credit will replace

The Department has a target of enrolling 184,000 claimants on Universal Credit by April 2014, and it launched a limited pilot scheme, called Pathfinder, at Ashton-under-Lyne in April 2013. The Department expanded Pathfinder to three further sites during July, and it will add six more in October 2013. The current rate of progress is significantly below target, however. Only around 2,500 claimants were registered at the time of our hearing in September, and the Department was unwilling to speculate what number will be enrolled by next April

2. Management of the Universal Credit programme has been extraordinarily poor. Oversight has been characterised by a failure to understand properly the nature and enormity of the task,

The pilot programme is inadequate as it does not deal with the key issues that Universal Credit must address: the volume of claims; their complexity; change in claimants' circumstances; the need for claimants to meet conditions for continuing entitlement to benefit; and the security of information to prevent fraud. The scope of Pathfinder is much narrower than originally planned. It is now restricted to only the simplest new claims of people who are single, have no dependants and would otherwise be seeking Jobseeker's Allowance. The Pathfinder does not deal with most claimants' circumstances or examine how the behaviour of different types of claimant might change with the introduction of Universal Credit. Pathfinder also includes limited IT functionality, with staff having to enter some information manually, and it lacks the identity assurance and anti-fraud components that the full system will need. While Pathfinder will provide some useful information, we are sceptical that it will adequately inform the full roll-out of Universal Credit

Realistic ambitions on timescales and the amount that can be delivered online, and the impact of these on the costs and benefits of the new system. While we recognise that timetables might need to be flexible, the Department should set out the milestones against which it can be held to account, such as: when each affected benefit will be replaced by Universal Credit; the migration of claimants onto the new system; and the availability of key services online.

In particular the Department needs a robust plan on how to transform its business and what is required from the new IT systems it intends to use to support the transformation. If the Department is to secure the benefits it seeks, the new IT capabilities must enable more online operations, must address fraud risks, and result in a system capable of handling the real-world complexities of claimants' circumstances. The Department must be realistic and transparent about its expected costs and timescales, and the milestones against which we can hold it to account.

Incredible really how shocking this report is.Full credit to them as they have highlighted most of the problems and the truth.UC is a shambles and dead in the water.Like I said,it will never come in and should be scrapped now.They are no closer than they day they announced it.

[OnionTerror]

Now on the Guardian website....

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/07/universal-credit-waste-mps

[@contradevian]

Damning PAC report on UC

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/regulation/dwp-slammed-for-shocking-lack-of-financial-control-on-universal-credit/6529370.article

[durhamborn]

Damning PAC report on UC

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/regulation/dwp-slammed-for-shocking-lack-of-financial-control-on-universal-credit/6529370.article

The good thing is that people are now seeing that the pathfinders are no such thing.They are simply to make it look like UC is moving forward.

The DWP is still trying to make out everything will be fine.Incedible really.

Tax credit claims will never be moved over (apart from maybe a few "show"cases").

The government had a mandate to reform welfare.Due to this ridiculous idea from IDS those 5 years and that mandate have been wasted.

Id say its about time IDS suffered from one of his "sanctions",,after all he hasn't stuck to what he agreed to when he started sucking from the taxpayers nipple.

[OnionTerror]

...so at one end, they are sanctioning people left right and centre (around 1.3m since October 2012)...possibly making them homeless or that they cannot eat properly, whereas at the other end, the DWP are spunking money all over the place, on a project that has always been a complete failure...No surprise there then...

[@contradevian]

...so at one end, they are sanctioning people left right and centre (around 1.3m since October 2012)...possibly making them homeless or that they cannot eat properly, whereas at the other end, the DWP are spunking money all over the place, on a project that has always been a complete failure...No surprise there then...

We are reaching the point where Jobcentre Plus almosts costs as much to run as it gives out. JSA is about £5BN a year and JCP running costs are about £3BN ( and that excludes all the money thrown at A4E etc I think). Its a jobcentre network alright for finding jobs for civil servants.

If we could get everyone onto tax credits/SE could close the naffing useless thing down

I agree with durhamborn, time IDS and the Duke of Westminster etc were forced to sign on every fortnight for their 'benefits.' Would soon see them coming off state support if they had to.

Edited November 7, 2013 by aSecureTenant

[@contradevian]

Could get nasty.

[Hectors House]

IDS should stick to muck spreading on the farm!

[fluffy666]

The good thing is that people are now seeing that the pathfinders are no such thing.They are simply to make it look like UC is moving forward.

The DWP is still trying to make out everything will be fine.Incedible really.

Tax credit claims will never be moved over (apart from maybe a few "show"cases").

The government had a mandate to reform welfare.Due to this ridiculous idea from IDS those 5 years and that mandate have been wasted.

Id say its about time IDS suffered from one of his "sanctions",,after all he hasn't stuck to what he agreed to when he started sucking from the taxpayers nipple.

It's very simple.

It will take so many people to administer UC that there will be no unemployed people left needing to use UC. Therefore there will be no UC problems. Until the people who are now not needed to administer UC are made redundant and have to sign on for UC, at which point they will be immediately re-hired to process their own UC claims.

Do I get a job at the DWP?

Edited November 7, 2013 by fluffy666

[GinAndPlatonic]

Margaret Hodge was asked many times this morning on the BBC news, if there had been pressure on them (public accounts committee) to water down the report on UC. She side stepped the question every time, but did say there was universal condemnation of the way money is being wasted and no progress made. It does seem there is a feeling that pressure has come from somewhere to conjure up some scapegoats instead of the finger being pointed at IDS.

Quote : “The pilot programme is not a proper pilot. Its scope is limited to only the simplest new claims of people who are single, have no dependants and would otherwise be seeking Jobseeker’s Allowance.

Good one Durham Born!

[SuperChimp]

We are reaching the point where Jobcentre Plus almosts costs as much to run as it gives out. JSA is about £5BN a year and JCP running costs are about £3BN ( and that excludes all the money thrown at A4E etc I think). Its a jobcentre network alright for finding jobs for civil servants.

No. The administration costs are so high because the majority of staff time is taken preventing fraud. Cut back on staffing levels all you want but it will cost more in the long run as people claim benefits who are not eligible to them.