Challenge To Minimum Booze Pricing In Scotland Fails.

[Lewis Gordon Pugh]

Supply and demand my dear friend.

If the government does not want to facilitate the supply of cheap alcohol, there are plenty of organised criminal gangs that will.

All that will happen is that revenues from alcohol will collapse, but people will continue to drink cheap alcohol.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Lewis Gordon Pugh

[Orsino]

Scotland has the lowest life expectancy in Western Europe. Scottish men can expect to live to 75, which is more than four years less than the EU average. Male life expectancy in Glasgow is 71, compared to affluent areas in the South East where it is 85. Alcohol is just one of the factors contributing to this. In 20 years time we will look back on our current attitude to alcohol in the same way we now look back on our attitude to smoking in 1993.

[Executive Sadman]

Expect more self-exploding Polish microbrewerys to crop up, as in Lincolnshire.

[@contradevian]

Expect more self-exploding Polish microbrewerys to crop up, as in Lincolnshire.

Exploding micro distilleries certainly.

One hopes that the great British public will re-acquaint themselves with the simple art of fermenting. Tax Yeast!

[Rave]

I'm off to Berwick to open a booze cash 'n carry. Should manage to shift a fair bit of Bucky and Super T .

[Guest_GradualCringe_*]

Good news for wholesale beers, wines and spirits wholesalers in Berwick and Carlisle then.

* EDIT * Just noticed the comment above, beat me to it!

Edited May 5, 2013 by GradualCringe

[Nuggets Mahoney]

Exploding micro distilleries certainly.

One hopes that the great British public will re-acquaint themselves with the simple art of fermenting. Tax Yeast!

Yes! And if they refuse to pay, lock them all up.

Even better, prohibit the production of alcohol entirely. What could possibly go wrong?

[Rave]

Good news for wholesale beers, wines and spirits wholesalers in Berwick and Carlisle then.

* EDIT * Just noticed the comment above, beat me to it!

Great minds

[ChumpusRex]

Scotland has the lowest life expectancy in Western Europe. Scottish men can expect to live to 75, which is more than four years less than the EU average. Male life expectancy in Glasgow is 71, compared to affluent areas in the South East where it is 85. Alcohol is just one of the factors contributing to this. In 20 years time we will look back on our current attitude to alcohol in the same way we now look back on our attitude to smoking in 1993.

You're probably right. I think people don't really grasp the health effects of continued heavy drinking. A couple of years of working on the liver wards at various hospitals really hammered the point home to me.

You also shouldn't forget just how much of a problem alcohol is in Scotland. I briefly visited Glasgow for some professional experience; my mentor showed me a CT scan of the brain, and asked what I thought. I said that it showed severe alcohol induced brain damage. The mentor said nothing, and typed the report..."normal brain". He turned to me and said, "What's normal in Glasgow isn't necessarily the same as normal in London."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not averse to a few ales on a night out (or even a night in), myself; but regular binge or heavy drinking carries an extraordinary level of societal and health costs, and some sort of action to deal with this is going to be needed. I fear that we need a change in culture, and price alone isn't going to do that - it needs a smoking style education campaign.

Edited May 5, 2013 by ChumpusRex

[Rave]

You're probably right. I think people don't really grasp the health effects of continued heavy drinking. A couple of years of working on the liver wards at various hospitals really hammered the point home to me.

You also shouldn't forget just how much of a problem alcohol is in Scotland. I briefly visited Glasgow for some professional experience; my mentor showed me a CT scan of the brain, and asked what I thought. I said that it showed severe alcohol induced brain damage. The mentor said nothing, and typed the report..."normal brain". He turned to me and said, "What's normal in Glasgow isn't necessarily the same as normal in London.

Ah, well you're the man to ask then. I'll be 34 in a couple of months; I've been doing 60-120 units a week for longer than I'd care to admit, but certainly at least the last 5 years if I'm honest. I've had a moderate night by my standards tonight, just the one bottle of wine and two cans of beer.

Have I permanently ****ed myself already? I'm not as sharp as I used to be but I can still string an argument together. Is the brain damage irreversible? I've known for a long time that I need to stop drinking every day but, TBH, I really like being drunk, and find sobriety incredibly tedious .

I'm also a moderate smoker (5-10 roll-ups a day) and I understand that nicotine is good for the brain albeit very bad for the lungs. Any hope for me?

[StuG III]

Yes! And if they refuse to pay, lock them all up.

Even better, prohibit the production of alcohol entirely. What could possibly go wrong?

Its certainly worked with drugs.

No one takes any illegal drugs and there is no industry that produces new drugs faster than the government can legislate against them.

[Guest_FaFa!_*]

Ah, well you're the man to ask then. I'll be 34 in a couple of months; I've been doing 60-120 units a week for longer than I'd care to admit, but certainly at least the last 5 years if I'm honest. I've had a moderate night by my standards tonight, just the one bottle of wine and two cans of beer.

Have I permanently ****ed myself already? I'm not as sharp as I used to be but I can still string an argument together. Is the brain damage irreversible? I've known for a long time that I need to stop drinking every day but, TBH, I really like being drunk, and find sobriety incredibly tedious .

I'm also a moderate smoker (5-10 roll-ups a day) and I understand that nicotine is good for the brain albeit very bad for the lungs. Any hope for me?

As a matter of urgency, I'd suggest you get to the bottom of why you are drug dependent and what drives it. You are doing 3 to 6 times the recommended intake of alcohol plus roll ups - I'd be more worried about your lungs and liver. Are you pissed every day? Or is your tolerance too high now. Arent you a bus driver? Are your family and friends aware of your intake? Why do you find being sober boring? If you need drugs to make you happy it is not a good sign.

[workingatthepyramid]

Give him a break.

When scumbags have trashed the world it is no wonder decent people turn to drink.

[Olebrum]

Its certainly worked with drugs.

No one takes any illegal drugs and there is no industry that produces new drugs faster than the government can legislate against them.

Politicians simply prefer the production and distribution of drugs to be organised and controlled by armed criminal gangs.

It's a free market thing or something.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

Give him a break.

When scumbags have trashed the world it is no wonder decent people turn to drink.

UK data...

[Guest_FaFa!_*]

Give him a break.

When scumbags have trashed the world it is no wonder decent people turn to drink.

He will be in a better shape to deal with the scumbags if he isn't half cut all the time or dying of liver disease. Maybe I was a bit OTT, just trying to show friendly concern.

[workingatthepyramid]

He will be in a better shape to deal with the scumbags if he isn't half cut all the time or dying of liver disease. Maybe I was a bit OTT, just trying to show friendly concern.

Sorry mate, i wasn't having a go and i wouldn't really argue with anything you posted, just that Raves post struck a chord with me.

Unfortunately it seems the market can remain irrational for longer than i can stay sober.

[eejit]

Anyway, I don't believe that raising the price of alcohol will reduce peoples intake, it will just mean they spend less money on non-essentials such as fresh fruit and veg, toothpaste.

I think it is bad science, with statistics being used to prove the point that the people doing the research wanted to prove.

It isn't the cost of drink that makes people drink, it is a lot of other factors. You just need to look at any Mediterranean country, with its "cafe culture", drink is an awful lot cheaper there, and the only people binge drinking are (some of) the Brits on holiday.

if an alcoholic wont stop drinking when you tell them they are going to die, putting the price of tennets super up to £2.50 will do nothing to stop them.

Also, it's not even as if the extra cost will be put back into the NHS, it is going to the super markets.

[Guest_FaFa!_*]

Sorry mate, i wasn't having a go and i wouldn't really argue with anything you posted, just that Raves post struck a chord with me.

Unfortunately it seems the market can remain irrational for longer than i can stay sober.

Fair enough! I cam be a bit self righteous at times

[Harry Monk]

As I've said before, the most brain-damaged and violent people on earth are, to a person, tee-total and drug free.

My ex used to work as a nurse in Saudi Arabia, while she was there a 14 year old girl who gave birth to a baby in her hospital was later publicly beheaded for being raped -by her father- for the crime of "adultery", and it was the father who raped her who had the final say on her sentence and insisted on her being executed for her violation of the rules of a fairy story called "the Koran"..

Nothing I've done while being in drink comes within a million miles.

[chronyx]

As I've said before, the most brain-damaged and violent people on earth are, to a person, tee-total and drug free.

My ex used to work as a nurse in Saudi Arabia, while she was there a 14 year old girl who gave birth to a baby in her hospital was later publicly beheaded for being raped -by her father- for the crime of "adultery", and it was the father who raped her who had the final say on her sentence and insisted on her being executed for her violation of the rules of a fairy story called "the Koran"..

Nothing I've done while being in drink comes within a million miles.

Seriously? That's horrific

[Harry Monk]

Seriously? That's horrific

Happens all the time, look at this, a 17 year old girl stoned to death in Iraq by a crowd estimated to be in the thousands, for the crime of converting religion. For attempting to believe in the wrong fairy tale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning_of_Du%27a_Khalil_Aswad

Again, a totally alcohol and drug free country, in this case Iraq. This sort of thing happens all the time, in 99% of cases news just doesn't reach the outside world.

[chronyx]

Again, a totally alcohol and drug free country, in this case Iraq. This sort of thing happens all the time, in 99% of cases news just doesn't reach the outside world.

A lot of repressed thoughts/emotions looking for outlets I expect.

[Ulfar]

This is going to kill the spirits industry in Scotland.

There are many reasons that it is a bad idea the main one being it will do nothing to reduce the abuse of alcohol in Scotland. People will get it from south of the border or from other sources.

I am against it for the same reason I am against all the other nanny state laws, no matter what laws they pass they cannot legislate against death, we are all going to die and you might as well have a bit of fun before you go.

[frank rizzo]

This is going to kill the spirits industry in Scotland.

There are many reasons that it is a bad idea the main one being it will do nothing to reduce the abuse of alcohol in Scotland. People will get it from south of the border or from other sources.

I am against it for the same reason I am against all the other nanny state laws, no matter what laws they pass they cannot legislate against death, we are all going to die and you might as well have a bit of fun before you go.

Assuming a bottle of whisky is about 28 units, at 50p a unit it makes a minimum allowed retail price of £14.

I don't see much going for less than that, usually ~£13 is considered a really good price and that's for the mass produced brand name stuff in a supermarket offer.

What am I missing that suggests trouble for the industry?