geezer466 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Not so sure about army training. Sure, they know about explosives, but do they train for large liquid loads that can tend to slosh around in a big wave with the momentum to overwhelm the brakes and steering if just driven like a regular vehicle? I guess they do now, if they're busy training for it! Modern Road tanker vehicles will be fitted with baffles in the tanks to overcome this. On of the first things they teach you on ADR (the army speak is Hazmat) courses. The main thing they will be teaching them is the difference between what goes in the yellow marked ground tanks and what goes in the red at the delivery points. Today the vast majority of Army transport runs on the yellow stuff, few if any will ever have carried bulk petrol. (maybe the old sweats There is the potential for a mini disaster when this part of the operation goes wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalky Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Modern Road tanker vehicles will be fitted with baffles in the tanks to overcome this. On of the first things they teach you on ADR (the army speak is Hazmat) courses. The main thing they will be teaching them is the difference between what goes in the yellow marked ground tanks and what goes in the red at the delivery points. Today the vast majority of Army transport runs on the yellow stuff, few if any will ever have carried bulk petrol. (maybe the old sweats There is the potential for a mini disaster when this part of the operation goes wrong. Basically the only the difference between delivering Petrol & Diesel is that you never pump Petrol which is the 1st thing you should learn on any ADR course or refresher. I work for a fuel company which is health & safety mad and the only requirement for delivering Petrol as opposed to other fuel products is that the driver does one supervised delivery as there isn't very much to teach in all honesty. The average salary for a tanker driver is approx 25K-30K these people who are earning nearly 50K should be thanking their lucky stars that they got away with it for so long as since the majors left the industry no one else can afford to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wait & See Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Can I just ask why they are getting paid 44k to drive a lorry anyway? Better just to send them all down the job centre and get the army to deliver the fuel. 44k a year to £60 a week. Let's see how they like that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live Peasant Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Can I just ask why they are getting paid 44k to drive a lorry anyway? Because they're classed as engineers and not drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AThirdWay Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Can I just ask why they are getting paid 44k to drive a lorry anyway? Better just to send them all down the job centre and get the army to deliver the fuel. 44k a year to £60 a week. Let's see how they like that one. God damn their impertinence! Asking for MORE?!?!?! They should be tugging their forelocks to their paymasters, and thanking them profusely for putting gruel on their families table.... I do hope your idiotic post was in jest, I've responded in the same manner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 One of the slight problems for the government is that logistical support including drivers is an area of the military that has suffered some of the biggest cuts. Anyone who is expecting the army to keep their local petrol station supplied is likely to be seriously disappointed if this strike comes off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy_renting Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Because they're classed as engineers and not drivers. Engineers?? WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 The government could give temporary dispensation for lorry drivers without ADR qualifications to make the deliveries. Going forward they could train petrol station staff to do the filling when the tanker arrives so any regular drivers could be used. Like tube drivers (I prefer the docklands light railway drivers - a much more reliable whinge-free lot) an unwarranted salary has been blackmailed by unreasonable unionisation for what I doubt, in reality, is a job exposed to any more risk than a, far less well remunerated, lollipop lady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billfunk Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Would any industry insiders have the SIC for the transportation of fuel and the associated health and safety stats over, say, the last decade? I have had a scan but am unsure of classification as it seems to fall between tranportation and auto/petrol stations - 5500. If anyone has a definitive link I could send it to Pravda as they seem incapable of reporting the safety aspects of this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MongerOfDoom Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Market forces yes as there are persons available to do the job cheaper subject to EU membership and the rules which go with that. People quick to harangue the Union and these drivers for taking the action they are should remember this can and will in time affect most industries and that no job is really safe. Hold the front page :-) Most people have faced globalisation for years now, and might just be reluctant to do without fuel for a couple of weeks in order that they can pay more for it going forward. Yes you could train the unemployed to do it but realistically you are looking at a 6 Month lead time from induction to end product and the ability to for them to carry out the job unaided. That would be an excellent value for effort if that turns them into "engineers" worth 45k. After all we wouldn't be wanting anything like this on UK roads would we? At least 220 people have been killed after an oil tanker overturned and exploded in the Democratic Republic of Congo on Friday night. Is there any evidence that is a likely or even possible outcome? I certainly doubt the EU drivers are any less safe than the current lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 The government could give temporary dispensation for lorry drivers without ADR qualifications to make the deliveries. Going forward they could train petrol station staff to do the filling when the tanker arrives so any regular drivers could be used. The litigation and health and safety culture now evident in this Country would see any chance in relaxing rules off at a stroke. The driver is ultimately responsible for the load and its safe delivery. Not many know the drivers have the power to close the fuel station whilst the delivery is being made should they deem it necessary. In practice this rarely happens but will people still pull up to the pumps and get out of their cars either with a fag on or with their mobile phone pressed to their ears. I would expect this to be one of their first tactics in a work to rule. Hold the front page :-) Most people have faced globalisation for years now, and might just be reluctant to do without fuel for a couple of weeks in order that they can pay more for it going forward. That would be an excellent value for effort if that turns them into "engineers" worth 45k. Is there any evidence that is a likely or even possible outcome? I certainly doubt the EU drivers are any less safe than the current lot. Your statement it mutually contradictory. Globalisation reduces wages albeit in the free market we are already reaching the tipping point as far as fuel prices are concerned. A significant number of people cannot afford to pay more full stop. There is evidence LGV drivers from Eastern Europe are not trained, nor examined to the same standards as those under UK jurisdiction. Many of them cannot speak English and therefore are unable to read road signs, in addition their involvement in major road accidents including motorways is greater than the average although the figures are skewed by those who come across from the continent and who are driving left hand drive wagons. There was a move within the EU Parliament some years ago to standardise training and testing regime's and this is now only starting to filter through, this still doesn't get around the language problems though. Edit to add the Daily Mash take on this......At army camps across the country fake garages have been built from plywood so that soldiers can learn the lay out of a typical kiosk and then move around it as as slowly as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live Peasant Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Engineers?? WTF? The fact that they don't just drive a lorry but have to transfer hazardous material means the union negotiated for these drivers to be classed as engineers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awaytogo Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Really? Please expand on this, I'm in the industry and am not aware of any ongoing disputes where 'train drivers are holding the UK to ransom'. The only issue I know regards the idiot leader of the RMT, Mr Bob Crow, ruffling feathers over the Olympics with London Underground. Bob Crow would love to think he represemts all train drivers and have the power that would bring him but the fact is that he does not; Underground aside, the vast majority of drivers are with ASLEF, a far more sensible and agreeable organisation. I can assure you that if ASLEF are involved in a dispute there will be damned good reason and with the way management (if many are fit to be described as such) behave it is of great credit to ASLEF that they are prepared to negotiiate their way around problems in the manner they do. It is true that train drivers are 'well paid' but I can tell you that the cost in terms of social life, family time and health issues due to shifts is no more than compensated for. Furthermore, those deluded enough to think they're a bunch of buffoons who just sit there would have a rude awakening regarding the rules, technical and route knowledge they posess; idiots are very quickly exposed and won't last very long never mind a 40 year career! The fact that the rest of the UK workforce has allowed themselves to be undercut and rolled over in the name of profit and a race to the bottom is no fault of ASLEF or it's drivers. Sadly this country has now reached the stage where people would prefer to see others lose what they have worked for than see their own lot improved; we should all be pulling together in aspiration, not allowing ourselves to get divided and be conquered. Do you think that if drivers took a £10K pay cut the fares would fall and/or the subsidies would be less? I think we all know the answer to that. You will by now realise that you got my goat somewhat but to be honest the kind of ignorant, misinformed and frankly untrue one-liner comment you made cannot go uncorrected. Yep a lot on this web site are more interested at pulling others down than themselves up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Yep a lot on this web site are more interested at pulling others down than themselves up. Yup they must think that they are immune from that nasty globalisation..... It even applies to Indian IT professionals given a leg up to circumvent immigration controls by a group of MP's and Peers via a Limited Company they created called Eurim Ltd. All within the confines of google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billfunk Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Yup they must think that they are immune from that nasty globalisation..... It even applies to Indian IT professionals given a leg up to circumvent immigration controls by a group of MP's and Peers via a Limited Company they created called Eurim Ltd. All within the confines of google. Ordinary private sector workers have had their pay and pensions greatly reduced in the last decade. Their lack of support is a show of solidarity with those who stood by and did nothing,or voted Labour, and who are only now facing the same reductions. Look on the bright side - they had a bonus ten years in bribes paid to them by Gordon and Tony so they can't be that disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowflux Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 The BBC website seems to have gone very quiet on this dispute. Could this be to avoid encouraging panic buying of fuel? Is there any panic buying? Should we be panic buying? Looks like I was ahead of the curve yesterday. Today's headline: No 10 denies causing fuel 'panic' Time to panic buy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 As I said earlier when they start getting the unemployed to do these jobs or importing ever more poorly trained EU migrants we will be seeing much more of this. BBC Video Traffic Accident only today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billfunk Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 As I said earlier when they start getting the unemployed to do these jobs or importing ever more poorly trained EU migrants we will be seeing much more of this. BBC Video Traffic Accident only today This started 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longinthetooth Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Still think that this is purely government manipulation. I'd bet a penny to a pinch of sh*t that fuel prices will shoot up yet again within a few months and who will Cameron and Co blame - the strikers, unions, public hoarding/greed etc etc! Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 This started 10 years ago. Plenty of time for them to learn English then and interpret correctly the ' Unsuitable for Large Vehicles' signage!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awaytogo Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Still think that this is purely government manipulation. I'd bet a penny to a pinch of sh*t that fuel prices will shoot up yet again within a few months and who will Cameron and Co blame - the strikers, unions, public hoarding/greed etc etc! Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. Yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Chairman Dave has spoken [/url] DJ FX Trader @djfxtrader UK Cameron: No Need To Queue For Gas, But Sensible To Take Precautions Such as? #GetsonesmanservanttoQforyou https://twitter.com/#%21/djfxtrader' rel="external nofollow"> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricksters Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Chairman Dave has spoken ......."sensible precautions......" Such as? Quite. This seems a deliberate attempt to induce panic buying. He must know the inevitable effect of "no need to panic but, err, y'know, just in case....." What's his game? Probably to wop the price up because of shortages, enables the setting of a new price in the not too distant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Quite. This seems a deliberate attempt to induce panic buying. He must know the inevitable effect of "no need to panic but, err, y'know, just in case....." What's his game? Probably to wop the price up because of shortages, enables the setting of a new price in the not too distant. Its like rent day for the shops. As its the end of Q1 2012, he's trying to get a few more pennies in the till of the UK plc GDP figures. Ditto stamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufflesTheGuineaPig Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Going forward they could train petrol station staff to do the filling when the tanker arrives so any regular drivers could be used.Have you ever MET anyone who works in a petrol station? Might as well just set fire to them now.No 10 denies causing fuel 'panic' Quick, some said PANIC! Lets all fill up our cars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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