The Knimbies who say No Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-2097277/First-time-buyers-struggle-property-ladder-lack-time-sellers.html?ITO=1490 A lack of ‘first-time sellers’ is severely limiting the availability of affordable homes for first-time buyers, as those who bought in recent years cannot afford to move up the ladder, a new report says. Property listing website Rightmove found in its First-Time Buyer Report that homeowners in their first property - who in normal times would be moving on - cannot afford to, due to a combination of negative equity, lack of confidence to stretch their finances and difficulty in finding a suitable property to upgrade to. Almost a quarter of house hunters in 2012 will be purchasing for the first time, the research has indicated, but this figure is still well below the historic average of 40 per cent, as first-time buyers struggle to find suitable properties. The reluctant first-time sellers tend to own terraces and flats – an ideal first-time buy – but can't afford to pass them on leading to a frustrating scenario for thousands of potential first-time buyers. ...more at link Nabbed from the front page. Seems like there's a decent chance that those that bought FTB properties will be competing with FTBs for the 'second' rung properties in due course. Why bother buying a small place when a bigger one is getting cheaper by the month? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 http://www.thisismon...s.html?ITO=1490 Nabbed from the front page. Seems like there's a decent chance that those that bought FTB properties will be competing with FTBs for the 'second' rung properties in due course. Why bother buying a small place when a bigger one is getting cheaper by the month? these "ideal first time buys" are not so ideal at all. neg equity, high prices and overstretch seems to be de rigour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) these "ideal first time buys" are not so ideal at all. neg equity, high prices and overstretch seems to be de rigour. Exactly right. I imagine a situation could easily arise where a 'first time seller' as defined in the article, low/zero/-ve equity, no/little deposit, will be competing with a FTB who has a bigger deposit, no chain etc. I wonder how many of the first time sellers will rue their decision to 'get on the ladder' when it comes to buying the house they actually want, rather than the one they felt they had to buy to start with? Could be little more than a millstone around their neck. Edited February 7, 2012 by cheeznbreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Exactly right. I imagine a situation could easily arise where a 'first time seller' as defined in the article, low/zero/-ve equity, no/little deposit, will be competing with a FTB who has a bigger deposit, no chain etc. I wonder how many of the first time sellers will rue their decision to 'get on the ladder' when it comes to buying the house they actually want, rather than the one they felt they had to buy to start with? Could be little more than a millstone around their neck.I've been saying this since 2008/09 and one of the reasons I STR. Nice of the MSM to catch on.As the saying goes, there is no ladder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 What we need are the banks repossessing and selling properties to people at the true market value. This zombie housing market will just go on and on until something gives. The agents must be struggling, maybe they will start lobbying for a HPC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richc Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-2097277/First-time-buyers-struggle-property-ladder-lack-time-sellers.html?ITO=1490 Nabbed from the front page. Seems like there's a decent chance that those that bought FTB properties will be competing with FTBs for the 'second' rung properties in due course. Why bother buying a small place when a bigger one is getting cheaper by the month? Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, but it strikes me that there are more nice, family houses (i.e. 4+ beds, acre or more of land, within an hour of London) coming onto the market in the last few months with ever so slightly less ridiculous asking prices (£1 million rather than £2.5 million). As almost all of these purchases are dependent on having equity, the number of buyers who have both the equity and the need for a bigger house is dwindling over time and prices are becoming a bit more realistic. It's hard to tell what's really going on though, because the sales statistics are so jumbled together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I'd like to move up from my 'first time buyer property'. Trouble is i'd have to increase my mortgage debt by at least three times over to make it worthwhile. I'll just pay off the place I'm in now thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diver Dan Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I blame the FTBs for spending all their money on fancy rubbish like iPads which we never had back in my day. If an FTB was simply to avoid buying a few as 80 iPads, then they would have enough deposit for a 20% deposit on an average house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufflesTheGuineaPig Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 A lack of ‘first-time sellers’ is severely limiting the availability of affordable homes for first-time buyers, as those who bought in recent years cannot afford to move up the ladder, a new report says. They will be plenty on the market in the next few months as the BTLers rush for the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybernoid Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I wonder how many of the first time sellers will rue their decision to 'get on the ladder' when it comes to buying the house they actually want, rather than the one they felt they had to buy to start with? Could be little more than a millstone around their neck. Ah but they're busy 'getting on with their lives' and ' aren't wasting money on rent'. Think of all the money they've saved!! Oh no, wait, the property is worth less now isn't it. AH, but they're getting on with their lives! By erm, being stuck in a property they don't want to be in. Um. hmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Ah but they're busy 'getting on with their lives' and ' aren't wasting money on rent'. Think of all the money they've saved!! Oh no, wait, the property is worth less now isn't it. AH, but they're getting on with their lives! By erm, being stuck in a property they don't want to be in. Um. hmm. Well, quite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Melchett Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 This happened in the last HP crash back in the 90s (and probably every HPC since HPCs began). Back then the market was full of new build 'studio flats' or bedsits to you and me. They and many other flats became unsellable, as FTBs just moved straight to 2/3 bed houses. I suspect many of the blocks of bedsits were demolished mid/late 90s, as they seemed to have vanished from the market. That or they fell down of their own accord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I would have thought two types of property to be harder to sell for the 'first time seller' a. shared ownership and b. new build. Would someone choose to buy a secondhand new build or a secondhand old build if given the choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 I blame the FTBs for spending all their money on fancy rubbish like iPads which we never had back in my day. If an FTB was simply to avoid buying a few as 80 iPads, then they would have enough deposit for a 20% deposit on an average house. I see a comment like that in the link. Some people have no idea how lucky they were, irrespective of however much hard graft they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I see a comment like that in the link. Some people have no idea how lucky they were, irrespective of however much hard graft they did. ipad BTL empires...yes, it was all wrong http://www.findaproperty.com/to-rent/property-10343605 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Melchett Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I'd like to move up from my 'first time buyer property'. Trouble is i'd have to increase my mortgage debt by at least three times over to make it worthwhile. I'll just pay off the place I'm in now thanks. Quite. I'm a long way from being a FTB, or living in a FTB house. But for the last ten years or so I've looked at the choice between selling myself into slavery to the banks for the rest of my life in order to move to a slightly larger house or staying put and spending/saving the money I would have given to the banks on me and mine. No contest. And yes, I know I'm a lucky *******. It is those youngsters that this is not an option for, because they were born too late, that I feel sympathy for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantnrave Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 If an FTB was simply to avoid buying a few as 80 iPads, then they would have enough deposit for a 20% deposit on an average house. Not quite. As noted in the inflation figures, iPads are falling in price. By using a generation one iPad as a sandwich filler instead of cheese, then you can save a fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Hopefully BTL sellers will help........if this government fails to sort out the failure to provide homes for young working people they will lose votes by the handful, not only from the priced out but from the priced outs families. http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/feb/03/why-quite-buy-to-let?INTCMP=SRCH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timak Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I'd like to move up from my 'first time buyer property'. Trouble is i'd have to increase my mortgage debt by at least three times over to make it worthwhile. I'll just pay off the place I'm in now thanks. My situation too. The next step of the "ladder" would mean taking on about £200k-£400k of debt So I'll just have a small house or move to a much cheaper area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The bottom is collapsing and yet those above sit their all smug thinking it won't affect them. They just don't have a hope IMO. Remember Scotland and more specifically Edinburgh ? House prices will never fall here ? It just wont happen ? If they drop canny investors will just snap them all up. Today in a classic Edinburgh FTB area. Prices are already down 28% from peak - NOMINAL. With absolutely no sign of it stopping. In real terms that must be close to 50%. ESPC Edinburgh "On the other hand, the average selling price of a one-bedroom flat in Dalry and Gorgie during the last three months was £91,536 - down 11.5% annually and 28% below the average of £127,213 recorded at the peak of the market" The crash is happening IMO. It is full steam ahead. The tanker has turned and as we have been told all along - it would take a long long time. But when it did finally turn ? It would continue in that opposite direction for a long long long time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The crash is happening IMO. It is full steam ahead. The tanker has turned and as we have been told all along - it would take a long long time. But when it did finally turn ? It would continue in that opposite direction for a long long long time.... You mean BTL's are snapping up these "bargains?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 You mean BTL's are snapping up these "bargains?" But the thing is they are not. Completely contrary to what every single 'expert' I had this discussion with on an Edinburgh chat board (Football forum, Scotsman etc..) told me. Shock horror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 The bottom is collapsing and yet those above sit their all smug thinking it won't affect them. They just don't have a hope IMO. Remember Scotland and more specifically Edinburgh ? House prices will never fall here ? It just wont happen ? If they drop canny investors will just snap them all up. Today in a classic Edinburgh FTB area. Prices are already down 28% from peak - NOMINAL. With absolutely no sign of it stopping. In real terms that must be close to 50%. ESPC Edinburgh "On the other hand, the average selling price of a one-bedroom flat in Dalry and Gorgie during the last three months was £91,536 - down 11.5% annually and 28% below the average of £127,213 recorded at the peak of the market" The crash is happening IMO. It is full steam ahead. The tanker has turned and as we have been told all along - it would take a long long time. But when it did finally turn ? It would continue in that opposite direction for a long long long time.... yup, heartening to see and something I know you've been highlighting for a good while. My maw and paw live up in Greenbank, they are of the opinion that prices have bottomed etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfinder Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I was a first time buyer 2005. Now 52% of the mortgage loan has been paid off. A terraced with the same floor area + a garden will cost us +£150k, there is no incentive to commit financial suicide (go up the ladder). Low council tax, no mortgage, with a chance to go part time in 7 years is far more desirable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I just dont get how people dont make the connection ? Or do they just not want to ? Where did those living today in greenbank live 20 years ago - maybe that will give them a clue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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