Britain On The Fiddle 8Pm Bbc1 Tonight

[juvenal]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15568540

Heads up.

Prog on tonight was held over from a few days back.

(not showing in Scotland)

Edited November 3, 2011 by juvenal

[JustAnotherProle]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15568540

Heads up.

Prog on tonight was held over from a few days back.

(not showing in Scotland)

Already a thread up for this http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=171285

[Milton]

If you wish to find the countries worst perpetrators of [unpunished] Fraud look no further than the Houses Of Parliament, and the Banks.

The Financial Services Authority and the Bank Of England.

The Entire country is aware of this, even if the BBC attempts its usual misdirection.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Milton

[juvenal]

Bump.

[Self Employed Youth]

How many hours would you walk and work for a fiver?

I often posed questions to the advisers at the job centre.

Last week I asked if I could be fast tracked onto Universal credit in order to make taking part time work a financially rational decision...

[@contradevian]

How many hours would you walk and work for a fiver?

I often posed questions to the advisers at the job centre.

Last week I asked if I could be fast tracked onto Universal credit in order to make taking part time work a financially rational decision...

Yup £500M for Accenture to implement the IT system to run UC.

[Self Employed Youth]

Yup £500M for Accenture to implement the IT system to run UC.

I have an idea how to revolutionise the job centre once UC is brought in. Allow people to turn up, apply for jobs and start work the same day.

When UC comes in, people will have an incentive to work part time. You could pop down as a day labourer. No need to risk your financial security by taking on work via an agency.

[Flopsy]

I have not been investigated for benefit fraud but I was investigated by an insurance company when I was badly injured after a road traffic accident. They tried to gain entry to my home (and succeeded), pretended to be salesman, couriers etc. They phoned repeatedly on false pretences and spied on me. I was followed videotaped and photographed after a long period of time. Because I was so badly injured they took a long time to work out what I looked like. My medical records were trawled through and ex-workmates interviewed. I was left badly traumatised and my health got even worse.

Similar things have happened to disabled members of my group for people with a neurological disease. They have been investigated in a similar way and also left badly traumatised - this time by the DWP. None of them have ever been caught playing tennis or been cautioned/convicted of anything.

It's hard to lose your job due to a disability, then have your benefit threatened. To have to attend medicals with disbelieving ATOS staff who act in a disrespectful and insulting way. Then to have to fight the DWP through tribunals. Having their money cut off as they go through one and then maybe two tribunals with huge delays and stress.

At the same time fighting the NHS for medical treatment so that one day they can go back to work (where they want to be).

We keep working with the DWP and ATOS and the government to improve processes but they ignore what we say. One member of our national group (a Dr) worked with the DPW to improve their assessments for our disease but after 8 or so rewrites they were still unwilling to take our advice on board. We've met with Govt Ministers from both the current govt and the last one to try and improve the way they test and assess claimants but once again none of our recommendations are listened to.

The TV programs and newspaper articles on benefit cheats never tell the whole story. How much does the DWP spend on investigating disabled claimants that have committed no offence and who will tell the story of what this feels like for them and what consequences there are for their health?

Edited November 3, 2011 by Flopsy

[OnionTerror]

I have an idea how to revolutionise the job centre once UC is brought in. Allow people to turn up, apply for jobs and start work the same day.

When UC comes in, people will have an incentive to work part time. You could pop down as a day labourer. No need to risk your financial security by taking on work via an agency.

The JC has to be more flexible...the faff that they make to sign off then to sign on over a short period of time...

[waynezilla]

A year or two ago this programme would have had me frothing at the mouth.

Makes me chuckle now. Don't know if I'm punch drunk, past caring or realise that even these fraudsters are on borrowed time.

[Self Employed Youth]

I wonder what counts as fraud. Perhaps I am a benefit cheat. This past week I have worked and signed on. By work I mean, cleaning, shopping on the behalf of, and gardening. I did this for an elderly relative and without payment in monetary terms. Although you could say I was paid in kind, I was given a meal containing 300g of salmon, cups of tea and biscuits, and an old tub of magnolia paint I will use to re-paint a room in my council flat.

If it wasn't for going to visit my grandparents and helping them out I wouldn't have been able to eat salmon last week, nor would I have been able to accrue a tin of paint to improve my council flat.

Yet I think home ownership is not taken into account for Income based JSA? (Whilst income and savings are)

Whilst cash savings are taken into account when one applies for housing benefit?

And could I not actually be in a position to claim carer's allowance whilst looking after an elderly family member in old age? (In addition to my JSA and legitimately)

[Milton]

I have not been investigated for benefit fraud but I was investigated by an insurance company when I was badly injured after a road traffic accident. They tried to gain entry to my home (and succeeded), pretended to be salesman, couriers etc. They phoned repeatedly on false pretences and spied on me. I was followed videotaped and photographed after a long period of time. Because I was so badly injured they took a long time to work out what I looked like. My medical records were trawled through and ex-workmates interviewed. I was left badly traumatised and my health got even worse.

Similar things have happened to disabled members of my group for people with a neurological disease. They have been investigated in a similar way and also left badly traumatised - this time by the DWP. None of them have ever been caught playing tennis or been cautioned/convicted of anthing.

It's hard to lose your job due to a disability, then have your benefit threatened. To have to attend medicals with disbelieving ATOS staff who act in a disrespectful and insulting way. Then to have to fight the DWP through tribunals. At the same time fighting the NHS for medical treatment so that one day they can go back to work (where they want to be).

We keep working with the DWP and ATOS and the government to improve processes but they ignore what we say. One member of our national group (a Dr) worked with the DPW to improve their assessments for our disease but after 8 or so rewrites they were still unwilling to take our advice on board. We've met with Govt Ministers from both the current govt and the last one to try and improve the way they test and assess claimants but once again none of our recommendations are listened to.

The TV programs and newspaper articles on benefit cheats never tell the whole story. How much does the DWP spend on investigating disabled claimants that have committed no offence and who will tell the story of what this feels like for them and what consequences there are for their health?

Ive heard that before. It seems to be par for the course. God help you, if you ever find yourself in this situation.

Apparently the ATOS staff are just absolute tossers.

Ive also heard that the specialists you go and see suffer if they recommend that a patient cannot do his/her job properly because of a serious illness.

Or do not write down the diagnosis on the patients medical records, which they have been discussing with the patient for the 2 years they have been seeing them!

For instance I know someone, an in-law, who was extremely fit.

He used to do 40-50 mile mountain bike rides regularly. High pressure job. He suddenly found it difficult to breathe properly.

His GP told him there was no 'anatomical reason' to send him for a chest xray.

Luckily he had BUPA

So, he went to see a physician, a pulmonary cardiologist privately.

Who sent him for a CT scan.

They found hundreds of Tumours in his lungs. Sent him for a couple of bronchoscopies over the next 6 months.

First one came back negative histology. No Result.

So For 6 months he felt there was a good chance he was going to die from lymphnoma cancer.

They then diagnosed it as a chronic serious potentially life threatening rare disease. The Tumours were benign.

But the tumour's are inflamed all the time, and he is unable to take a proper breath, in and out.

[its incurable, but not positively terminal. So he will never get any better than he is, but could deteriorate

I.E. All they can do is manage it with steroids and methotrexate......]

He's been telling the specialist he sees this every month for the last two years. That he cannot breath. Constantly gasping. Exhausted half the time.

But he says its like talking to a brick wall.

He feels like The specialist is fighting him. He asked to go on an exercise bike test.

Where they connect you to a breathing apparatus, and stick electrodes on your chest.

They really pushed him, and He managed to do 6 minutes, as his lungs do not inflate and deflate properly.

Doctor told him his results are fine!

So he said to the doctor I was doing 50 mile mountain bike rides 2 years ago, and now I cant do more than 6 minutes against no resistance, and you think thats fine?

Doctor said because his heart rate didnt get to 90% the results are inconclusive. Its ridiculous. There is no black and white.

Apparently if you can make a cup of tea, your fit enough to run an international business! I mean it should be pretty obvious that you would rather earn your 70k per annum, just having meetings in boardrooms, as he did,for 15 years, rather than get some meagre benefit....

Part of the problem is that he spends five minutes with the specialist, and he may appear ok, during that five minutes. But If you talk to him for an hour or so, he is gasping for breath. Obviously not fit to work in a high pressure enviroment, travelling all over to sell the groups services to international clients.

He has ME so badly he is fast asleep half the time, with fatigue, and rarely gets out of his dressing gown.

He hasnt worked for 2 years, but they wont give him any money.

Doctor becomes really offhand and almost nasty when he tries to raise the fact that he cannot do his job, and he feels like he is being treated like a benefit fraudster.

He went to a support group, with other people who had been diagnosed with the same thing, and apparently its common practice.

He is in Limbo.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Milton

[homeless]

was a good program, the guy in the bently was a total chancer, and the one with the house and yaght in france.

then the immigrants conning housing benifit/ dole ect, i think this is a massive massive scam its just too easy to fake your identity.

[homeless]

I would have been the same, but now just accept it. More outraged about this sort of thing ...

"A fire chief on £200,000 a year has sparked outrage after he retired on an estimated £700,000 pay-off and walked straight back into his old job.

The London Fire Brigade commissioner Ron Dobson has been allowed to 'retire' and gain access to his pension entitlements – giving him a maximum of £133,000 a year, two thirds of his salary.

But he has been instantly re-employed into his old position on lower pay but his pension payments mean his earnings are likely to be close to what they were before he retired.

The deal has sparked fury from the Fire Brigades Union who have branded it 'deeply unethical', especially as the arrangement was made in secret.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2057172/London-Fire-Brigade-chief-Ron-Dobson-retired-700k-pay--got-job-back.html#ixzz1cgDJDkKd

Sorry if already posted

the guy is only 52 as well. what a total disgrace, unbelievable people are retiring at 52 on full pensions. he looks like he might live another 40 years

[Blod]

ATOS retained their government contract without it being re tendered, whilst at the same time they were facing unprecedented volumes of complaints.

I heard of a case were a claimant in a wheelchair, who had informed them of of his needs was refused an examination. The reason he was refused, he was in a wheelchair and that posed a health and safety risk to their staff. Then they threatened to have his benefit cut off as he'd refused the examination. Without the paperwork to back this up it'd be hard to believe however I've seen the paperwork.

[waynezilla]

the guy is only 52 as well. what a total disgrace, unbelievable people are retiring at 52 on full pensions. he looks like he might live another 40 years

Ah, but will the state be in an..erm...state to be able to keep paying that pension for another 40 years. I'm starting to believe that the way we live now, including pensions such as this, and also the welfare state will be a mere blip in the annals of history. A historical curiosity...

[@contradevian]

I have an idea how to revolutionise the job centre once UC is brought in. Allow people to turn up, apply for jobs and start work the same day.

When UC comes in, people will have an incentive to work part time. You could pop down as a day labourer. No need to risk your financial security by taking on work via an agency.

If there are the jobs. And why do you risk your security? Because the jobs themselves are chancy, and temporary. However the switch to UC seems a good move and people's incomes are going to be highly variable, and the movement from job seeker, to employed to back again needs to be more seemless.

[trekking]

was a good program, the guy in the bently was a total chancer, and the one with the house and yaght in france.

then the immigrants conning housing benifit/ dole ect, i think this is a massive massive scam its just too easy to fake your identity.

That's one of the problems with the UK benefit system compared with the rest of Europe.

You wont see emigrants in the UK trying to sneak their way to France in the back of a lorry :-)

[SHERWICK]

but but but ... he's paid for his pension and has a contract and is entitled. Much easier to be outraged by some benefit fraud rather than address the real issues - instead we have bread and circuses, a five-minute hate focussed on a benefit thieves and we all feel so much better.

I don't know about you, but I hate em all: this fireman. fred goodwin and his ilk. all the benefits cheats. etc. etc.

[eric pebble]

I don't know about you, but I hate em all: this fireman. fred goodwin and his ilk. all the benefits cheats. etc. etc.

Me too.

YUP; Me too.

[dipstick]

Sorry, but I'm starting to think that the biggest cheats are those employed by the government to try and prove others are defrauding the system - and I'm including here the doctors who, by some miracle, managed to negotiate office hours whilst doubling their wages and simultaneously decreasing in their ability to do their job. They seem to be putting an awful lot of effort in trying to prove people are not ill.

The way the vulnerable are being targeted and demonised now is starting to turn my stomach.

My situation was that I was ill. I went to the doctors continuously over a period of 10 months. I was self employed. I couldn't earn money. I couldn't function. I begged to be diagnosed as sick. They wouldn't, it was 'all in my head.'

Except at the end of the 10 months I asked to see my notes. Ooops. They had missed a blood result that showed a serious deficiency that causes neurological problems. Best give her something for that then. And now, still, when I have remaining symptoms, I'm still told, 'it's all in your head.'

Who exactly are the scroungers here and being detrimental to the economy?

If I'd had my blood tests read, then I would still be a productive member of society and putting in to the economy. As it is, I'm left to struggle along, live on fresh air if necessary and sit in a corner quietly.

Going on my situation alone, the NHS has cost the taxpayer a fortune, in GPs time/earnings, tests and my loss of input.

Makes benefit scroungers look like lightweights.

[Flopsy]

I'm really sorry to hear of your experience Dipstick, as probably know the UK doesn't train or have enough existing Neurologists for patients and it can take years for people to be diagnosed properly.

That's certainly the experience of our group. We keep getting told that the NHS is rationed and we cannot be seen sooner or have the treatments we would like - but somewhere along the way I'd like it made clear how many working age people cannot work because they are not getting diagnosed and treated. We can't get tests and treatments that our fellow patients in other countries get.

One member of my group has terminal cancer because his GP couldn't tell the difference between his neurological disease and his new cancer symptoms. Neurological waiting lists are very long. We joke on our group that they will probably cut off his benefit as the final insult before he dies (as he is one of the patients currently being assessed)

It's not just neurological diseases. My husband ended up in hospital with an unusual blood clotting for weeks on end just because they could not get him time on a particular machine. In the end we paid privately for the access. A hospital bed costs a lot of money and he was off work as well.

Most of the doctors we would like to see as NHS patients also have private practises. The NHS queues keep getting longer and their private practises flourish. Some consultants have given up entirely on the NHS as they simply cannot offer the level of service they want.

These stories may go part of the way in explaining why we have so many sick people on benefits. If the NHS is rationed (and our group keep getting told this) then maybe some priority needs to be given to getting working age people back to work and we would welcome this. The NHS and the DWP need to be joined up.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Flopsy

[dipstick]

I used to work with the long term unemployed, and although it may not appear to be the case on the surface, I can categorically state that the majority do want to work. I think, years ago, the figures used to be that even with full employment, there are only about 2% of the working age population that will actively avoid work.

I don't know how things have changed, especially with regard to the real amount of benefits people receive, but I have no reason to presume that once barriers to employment are overcome, this figure has changed.

The key word here of course is AVOID. Yet the majority of the people attempting to get sick benefits that I meet are not looking to AVOID work, they are looking to get diagnosis and treatment that will allow them to work without increasing pain and suffering.

The problem, in my experience, starts with GPs.

How, even if you are a well trained, experienced, GP, can you assess somebody in 10 minutes? That's the average consultation time. This is to get update information, read past history, interpret blood results and possibly examine a patient. Then they have to update records. I would say it can't be done effectively.

Yet in recent years we have cut GPs hours. In place we have organised NHS direct, links to 24 hour call-outs, centralised systems.

What happens, particularly if the records have not been updated fully and accurately, is that the problem gets larger, not smaller.

Hence, we have more pressure put on the NHS because the patient keeps having to return over and over again.

And, this is what happens if you have a well trained, experienced GP. In my experience, most of them aren't.

In fact in my experience most of them are pretty much useless. Quite possibly down to poor training, or maybe due to the pressure of the 10 minute consultation time, or maybe targets. Much easier to try and convince a patient that they are not ill, rather than look at the symptoms.

Ultimately you end up in a situation where the people that are ill, with anything more than blatantly diagnosable illnesses, get caught up in a whirlwind of claims, inappropriate testing, even more pressure on the NHS, loss of earnings and a downward spiral for all concerned.

It's a shambles.

And then you get these silly programs trying to lay the blame on the poor economy on, quite possibly, the 2% I mentioned at first, who you will never get into work no matter what you do.

It doesn't matter how uncomfortable you feel about the situation. One thing I learned when working with the long-term unemployed was to forget about that 2%. It would drive you crazy. Focus on the people that do want to work. Help them!!!! Because, ultimately they are the folk that keep the economy going.

[laurejon]

I used to work with the long term unemployed, and although it may not appear to be the case on the surface, I can categorically state that the majority do want to work. I think, years ago, the figures used to be that even with full employment, there are only about 2% of the working age population that will actively avoid work.

I don't know how things have changed, especially with regard to the real amount of benefits people receive, but I have no reason to presume that once barriers to employment are overcome, this figure has changed.

The key word here of course is AVOID. Yet the majority of the people attempting to get sick benefits that I meet are not looking to AVOID work, they are looking to get diagnosis and treatment that will allow them to work without increasing pain and suffering.

The problem, in my experience, starts with GPs.

How, even if you are a well trained, experienced, GP, can you assess somebody in 10 minutes? That's the average consultation time. This is to get update information, read past history, interpret blood results and possibly examine a patient. Then they have to update records. I would say it can't be done effectively.

Yet in recent years we have cut GPs hours. In place we have organised NHS direct, links to 24 hour call-outs, centralised systems.

What happens, particularly if the records have not been updated fully and accurately, is that the problem gets larger, not smaller.

Hence, we have more pressure put on the NHS because the patient keeps having to return over and over again.

And, this is what happens if you have a well trained, experienced GP. In my experience, most of them aren't.

In fact in my experience most of them are pretty much useless. Quite possibly down to poor training, or maybe due to the pressure of the 10 minute consultation time, or maybe targets. Much easier to try and convince a patient that they are not ill, rather than look at the symptoms.

Ultimately you end up in a situation where the people that are ill, with anything more than blatantly diagnosable illnesses, get caught up in a whirlwind of claims, inappropriate testing, even more pressure on the NHS, loss of earnings and a downward spiral for all concerned.

It's a shambles.

And then you get these silly programs trying to lay the blame on the poor economy on, quite possibly, the 2% I mentioned at first, who you will never get into work no matter what you do.

It doesn't matter how uncomfortable you feel about the situation. One thing I learned when working with the long-term unemployed was to forget about that 2%. It would drive you crazy. Focus on the people that do want to work. Help them!!!! Because, ultimately they are the folk that keep the economy going.

Unfortunately unemployment is designed to exist. Full employment causes inflation and makes a nation uncompetative in the world. Be under no illusion that the UK's unemployment figures are no random event, they were designed and agreed by the Government some time ago.

[Saberu]

Universal credit was suggested by a few members of this forum (including me) years ago and it seems the government is starting to realise the value of this forum to it's domestic policy.